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70gto

Now Im on this 3 gun kick

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25 minutes ago, Pew Pew Plates said:

Let me clarify this;

I make a subjective observation that the M3k isn't the greatest based off my personal experiences and state an opinion that it's not the best choice.  My opinion is wrong.

You make a subjective observation about the 1301 based off of similar experiences, and assert as fact that I am wrong and imply you are right.  

That doesn't really make sense.  

I don't really think my experiences are biased.  I have over 20k rounds through my 1301 (is that a short period of use?) and I had one single fail to feed that when i touched the charging handle it chambered.  These rounds were mostly over a 2.5 year period where I only cleaned it about 10 times.  I also have the gun you recommended, a roth custom benelli.  Do you own both guns to practice with side by side? The Benelli sits in the safe because it sucks compared to my 1301.  Maybe I'm just lucky (and every other 1301 around me is also lucky), maybe I just have strange preference but I shoot the 1301 way better and it never fails.  You're gas gun experience was with the worst semi auto race shotgun in history, it's no wonder you have a bias against them.  

I will agree the Stoeger is a good value, but I still uphold you're rolling the dice on having one that runs like a top.  There's also the Breda b12i option if you want to bridge the gap inbetween the M3K and the M2 and stay in the inertia gun family.  

Did not know you were running a 1301. 

The breda seems to be good. I was under the impression that street price on them and the m2 were close enough to be basically the same. 

I'm also not simply expressing an opinion but extrapolating from samples seen.  If you add you i know 4 people running the Beretta and 3 of them are having issues. I was at a match this weekend where the one 1301 on the squad was having issues. Also it is a gas gun and none of them, including the 1301, seem to want to run the whole range of loads in hot and cold without making changes for the seasons. The serial number is also in a really bad spot if you want to really have the port opened up.

How many 1301s do you see running with and without problems? 

Every squad I shoot on is usually at least 1/3 stoegers and I'm not twiddling my thumbs waiting for them to clear jams or deal with problems. 

Given the number of them I see at matches and the lack of problems, I have trouble believing you are rolling the dice on reliability. They'd have a reputation and people constantly discussing how to get it reliable like the 1100 and 1187 did. 

The only thing I have found they don't like out of the box are low recoil slugs traveling to slow. The fiocchi 1oz low recoil slugs at ~1100 fps are the only ones I know of that fit that description. 

The only thing literally everyone does to it is replace the factory follower because it is plastic garbage and won't play well with a tube extension. But this is not unusual for all shotguns when you put a mag extension on. 

And even if you were rolling the dice, get a high rate mag spring from Nordic, a benelli extractor, and a reduced power action spting from MOA and it should run everything 3 gun relevant. If super paranoid get a spare inertia spring. 

All easily installed diy, and will set you back about $80 total with shipping.

Your 1301 is going to need a mag button shroud out the gate. The nice version is gong to cost you about $70 shipped. 

There just aren't heaps of people pulling their hair out trying to get them sorted. And even a full MOA worked gun is price competitive with the 1301.

Technically the gas guns are less harsh on recoil and cycle faster. But are they winning? If they aren't winning for the best shooters and the best shooters aren't migrating for that advantage, what good is it going to do for your joe average new shooter? 

Hell Google 1301 problems and Google stoeger m3k problems and read. Apparently the 1301 is rolling the dice too. Except Apparently more and without good known fixes. And you can't open it up a lot. And you have to put on a shield or worry about bopping the bolt release and getting 2 on the lifter. 

Been there and fine that with the 930. If rather spend half as much. But that's me. 

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I started reading the rules and it seems in either 3 gun or IDPA I need to do something called a classifier first? Is it to qualify for a class ? Also I cant find any classifiers in NJ or PA  for 2020. Just because I cant find it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If you guys can shed some light on this I appreciate it, Thanks If I cant start 3 gun until this happens then I suppose I will give IDPA matches a try to get my feet wet. I live in Somerset county, is the somerset range in Bridgewater the place to go for this?

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You dont need to go to a classifier match first. If you don't have your manual of arms and gun handling down well, you might want to try something with a bit less going on at once than 3 gun to get your feet wet. 

Steel matches have the timer and commands without a lot of guns and movement. 

Uspsa had most of the bits but with just a pistol. 

 

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14 hours ago, 70gto said:

I started reading the rules and it seems in either 3 gun or IDPA I need to do something called a classifier first? Is it to qualify for a class ? Also I cant find any classifiers in NJ or PA  for 2020. Just because I cant find it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If you guys can shed some light on this I appreciate it, Thanks If I cant start 3 gun until this happens then I suppose I will give IDPA matches a try to get my feet wet. I live in Somerset county, is the somerset range in Bridgewater the place to go for this?

Not sure you understand what a classifier is.

There are essentially main 3 competition groups that you have mentioned:

USPSA:  they run IPSC style pistol matches, steel challenge, as well as multi-gun events.  There is a group at OBRPC that runs matches, you do not need to be an OBRPC member.

IDPA:  they split off from USPSA because they felt that USPSA had become too gear/"run and gun" oriented, so this is slightly different rules from USPSA and these matches are focused on "defensive" pistol where you simulate concealed carry and using cover/concealment.  The closest matches for you are at the Somerset range in Bridgewater.

3-Gun Nation:  a whole different group dedicated to doing 3-gun matches.  Last I remember the same folks at OBRPC hosted these as well, but that was 2 years ago so it may have changed.

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Uspsa does multi gun as well. Which is what the obrpc matches are when they happen. We don't do them often anymore because they require more work, have higher consumables cost, and get lower attendance. 

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5 hours ago, tomk62 said:

Not sure you understand what a classifier is.

There are essentially main 3 competition groups that you have mentioned:

USPSA:  they run IPSC style pistol matches, steel challenge, as well as multi-gun events.  There is a group at OBRPC that runs matches, you do not need to be an OBRPC member.

IDPA:  they split off from USPSA because they felt that USPSA had become too gear/"run and gun" oriented, so this is slightly different rules from USPSA and these matches are focused on "defensive" pistol where you simulate concealed carry and using cover/concealment.  The closest matches for you are at the Somerset range in Bridgewater.

3-Gun Nation:  a whole different group dedicated to doing 3-gun matches.  Last I remember the same folks at OBRPC hosted these as well, but that was 2 years ago so it may have changed.

You are correct I dont know what a classifier is. I must say I am sincerely impressed to the point, that I brag that the guys here are extremely helpful when they dont have to be. Thanks for all the info . I will check out Bridgewater first. I think they shoot every Sunday?

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Glenn talked me into a $400 BCG.... and I thought he was crazy but.. 

here is the back story.. I am just running these little 3 gun matches at my local range.. and what you start to see  is how fast can you shoot and how fast can you stay on that target or get onto the next.. I am NO expert (not even close).. but its like an addiction.. how much flatter can you get the gun to shoot.. 

well reducing the reciprocating mass was a crazy improvement.. I am now running a Ti BCG with adjustable gas system.. and a reduced weight adjustable buffer.. the gun barely moves.. that and a good trigger for me are probably the thing that puts me in the best position to run 3 gun.. without getting out of control.. 

 

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depends on the match venue. OB  for example can do up to 100yds, while other clubs have the capacity to go further. Its you choice on what to run either dot or a scope with magnification. run what you currently own and go from there. a 1x6 scope is the current happy medium.

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11 minutes ago, ronhonda said:

depends on the match venue. OB  for example can do up to 100yds, while other clubs have the capacity to go further. Its you choice on what to run either dot or a scope with magnification. run what you currently own and go from there. a 1x6 scope is the current happy medium.

Thanks for the help

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6 hours ago, 70gto said:

On average what distances (including furthest distance) are you shooting in 3 gun with the rifle? and what kind of glass if any is sufficient? Are we talking red dot or magnification?

It all depends on the match and venue. 

Within 2 hours of nj, longest you might get is ~600 yards at New Holland if they put the target halfway up the berm on the longest range.  Topton can't go past 200, but every match you are likely shooting at 200. Ontelaunee can go to 300. I believe York can as well. 

Obrpc can go slightly beyond 100 by going past the target stands into the berm and setting up catty corner. 

Past 450 is uncommon. For example the blue ridge in Kentucky had tons of stuff between 200 and 400, but only one 500 target. 

I said it earlier. You can get into the game and have a lot of fun in the local region with a dot and probably not time out. But there is a reason the lpvo dominates the sport. 

I can tell you 6 inch plates at ~180 with a 3moa dot ain't easy. Same plate rack with a 1-8 was cake.  

The sweet spot imo is either the Vortex razor HD 1-6 or the trijicon accupower 1-8. You can usually score one on sale or used $900-1100

The money is no object scope is the s&b short dot ii 1-8 cc. It packs the lighter weight best glass, real dot reticle and true 1x more with a big eye box. And a $4200 price tag. 

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