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Bullet seating and dimensions

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It looks like some of the coating is being scraped off when I seat the bullet, does that mean I should increase the flare/expansion or is this fine? All I found with regard to how much to expand was to expand until a bullet clicked into the casing by hand.

When I did the Plunk Test it dropped all the way down, but did not freely spin and did not fall right out when I inverted the barrel, I had to shake the barrel slightly. That means I need to seat the bullet deeper, for a smaller COAL, correct?

This case is marked G.F.L. 9mm Luger; Bullet is from Northeast Reloading, 124gr Accu Coat Truncated Cone.

COAL on this cartridge is 1.164; "D" is .3755; E is .3561

9mm_seated.JPG

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Another thing I meant to ask earlier...

I kept reading about the need of a sturdy bench for the press; so I was expecting to need a good amount of effort to run the press. That has not been my experience. I need very minimal pressure through all stages. Is that since I'm only running 9mm through it?

 

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The more you flare it, the more flare you will have to remove.  A little shave of the coating wont hurt anything. Take some measurements of the inside of the case after sizing and of the bullets. 

3 minutes ago, kc17 said:

Another thing I meant to ask earlier...

I kept reading about the need of a sturdy bench for the press; so I was expecting to need a good amount of effort to run the press. That has not been my experience. I need very minimal pressure through all stages. Is that since I'm only running 9mm through it?

 

Sturdy bench is a must so equal pressure can be applied each stroke,  With alot of flex I suspect you wont get exact OAL every time.  9mm is very easy to size and load as are most straight walled pistol cases. Using cases fired from your gun may result in easier sizing,  as unknown cases fired in unknown chambers may be harder or easier to size.

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If you are scraping off bullet coating, definitely increase the cartridge mouth flare...just enough to stop the scraping.  Too much flare shortens case life, from excessive working of the brass at the mouth.   Not a big deal with 9 mm brass being so easy to find, but a consideration when loading something more expensive.

The plunk test probably indicates your  loads will work fine with that gun, but you are out near the maximum COAL for the round, so shortening it up a bit wouldn't hurt, and may help with function in other guns.  Some are less tolerant of long COALs

The minimal effort required to run the press is definitely because you are loading 9 mm, that's about the least effort that any case is going to require--though all pistol rounds will be pretty easy to load.  The sturdy bench becomes important when loading big rifle rounds, which will require a lot more effort to crank through.

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I increased the flare/expansion to the point I can place the bullet in the case without the "click" that it did before. Then adjusted the final die so the COAL is 1.160 +/- one or two thousands. I'm assuming that's within acceptable tolerances.

Plunk Test was better so I cycled two through my gun. They passed so I made a total of 10 dummy rounds and cycled the same rounds three times. I  did my best to slingshot the slide, I did not want my hand to influence it returning to battery. Out of those 30 cycles, the slide hesitated maybe 4-8 times. It did not fail to go into battery, but it did hesitate a hair.

Realizing I never did this with factory ammo, I then did the same with factory ammo. I have two types on hand. Both Federal Eagle; a 124gr FMJ Round Nose, 1.148 COAL and what I believe to be 147gr FMJ Flat Nose, 1.067 COAL. That ammo has been in my night-stand magazines for a year or two now. The FN cycled with zero hesitation; the RN I felt the hesitation about half as much as my dummy loads with the Truncated Nose. It might be interesting to note at this point the 124 RN is what I've been using for competitions and have had a few minor glitches the last couple of times out.

To me this says, this particular handgun likes a smaller COAL and/or flat nose bullets. Gun is a 1st Gen M&P by the way.

I am about to set these ten dummy rounds further to get closer to 1.13 to 1.14 COAL. I've already thought about making sure I load the first live rounds on the low side due to higher pressure created by the shorter COAL.

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You shouldn't be scraping the coating off... any bullet without copper plating or jacket will require slightly more flare for seating. Minimal flare is nice and all to work the brass less and increase longevity, but softer materials will shave off against the case edge.

 

I load 124gr rn to a coal of 1.135. RN within Min and max should not give you issues Saami spec and factory ammo is 1.160. Its all the other flat nose conical and hollow points that run into cycle issues with loading angles and feed ramps

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I would also suggest if you dont already, the Lee factory crimp dies are simply the best. All my ammo goes through one to ensure the best cycling. Avoid seat and crimp in the same step, the last couple thousands of seating starts to crimp.. not ideal. 

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2 hours ago, kc17 said:

I'm using a RCBS carbide three-die set. Assumed it was best to use same brand dies as the press.

makes no difference. i mix and match within calibers sometimes. Just make sure the dies can thread down to the shell plate. Some presses do have thicker die threads like the LNL for their bushings. 

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I also use the hornady die adapter on my rock chucker — makes swapping dies easier

never had a problem with dies not threading down enough with the hornady bushings — some do get close 

rcbs, hornady, lee, lyman, dillon and redding dies all in my kit — my prefered dies are redding but you can’t always find them in a timely manner

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11 minutes ago, Heavyopp said:

I also use the hornady die adapter on my rock chucker — makes swapping dies easier

never had a problem with dies not threading down enough with the hornady bushings — some do get close 

rcbs, hornady, lee, lyman, dillon and redding dies all in my kit — my prefered dies are redding but you can’t always find them in a timely manner

Everyone loves Redding 

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21 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

I would also suggest if you dont already, the Lee factory crimp dies are simply the best. All my ammo goes through one to ensure the best cycling. Avoid seat and crimp in the same step, the last couple thousands of seating starts to crimp.. not ideal. 

Jack makes a great point about separating the seat and crimp actions by using the Lee Factory Crimp die as your 4th die.

I also want to add that for semi-autos, using the Lee Bulge Buster (which uses the body of the Lee Factory Crimp die WITHOUT the ring inside) ensures that every round will chamber properly. For under $20 it is cheap insurance against failures to feed out in the field, the WORST place to discover your rounds won't cycle.

https://leeprecision.com/bulge-buster-kit.html

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This is becoming too complicated for you - 

All pistol ammo should have a slight taper crimp as the cases head space on the mouth of the case.  It should be tapered enough to remove the bell from the flare to get the bullet started.

*if* you are tapering or crimping too much you get a bulge that prevent chambering as you are experiencing

*if* you do not taper enough you are not removing the flare.

These are NOT gross die adjustments, they are minor till you get the sweet spot.

You do NOT need any additional items other than the dies you have and when set right will do what you need.  I use hornady and am loading 147grain flat nose without any issues whatsoever.

SAAMI for 9mm is:

 

9mm Auto vs. 9mm Luger - Which is Better?

 

if you are loading to 1.164 COAL on the flat nose bullet, of which has a different profile than a round nose - you need to adjust COAL based on that bullet in SAAMI spec range and place it in a guage - more on that later.....

I can see the issue in the round in your OP - the flair is still there and you did not do the proper taper crimp.

 

Also buy on of these:

 

p_749016800_1.jpg?yocs=p_

https://www.brownells.com/reloading/measuring-tools/case-gauges-headspace-tools/9mm-luger-cartridge-gauge-prod99044.aspx

If it fits in here - it will fit in ANY 9mm chamber that meets SAAMI specs

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On 6/28/2020 at 1:38 PM, kc17 said:

You guys are killing me. :ninja: Reloading was supposed to save me money.

I'll stick with what I've got now. I don't think there's a risk of me blowing up my gun or house as long as I'm not stupid. 

 

You can and possibly will blow up a gun *IF* you double charge - get one of these....:

 

image.jpeg.9057a1ff010dc858ddc7a5ba79b1f811.jpeg

 

image.jpeg.456e52f822e6b9f882cd4b2c4570fcc4.jpeg

 

This is to prevent over or under charge in a progressive press - but being you are single stage - you need to be METICULOUS on the charge step of your workflow....if you double charge...well  BOOM....under charge - squib and if you do not realize it - well you can get a boom if you pull the trigger again....  :)

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I load everything on my single stage Rock Chucker. When it comes to dumping powder into the 50 cases standing up in the Midway loading block, after all the cases are charged, I use a flashlight to look down into the whole tray's worth to assure they are all at the same level before starting to seat bullets in them.

Using Titegroup as I do, it would be very easy to double, or even triple charge (in a .45acp) a case and blow myself and my gun up.

As I cannot stress enough, when you reload YOU ARE THE QUALITY CONTROL MANAGER.  Don't fuck it up and lose your job (or an eye, or some fingers!)

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I have discovered the adjustments to the die are very fine.

I have seen the headspace tool and similar, I was utilizing the plunk test as a poor man's version for now. Although, the one you posted is a reasonable price.

I am aware non/under/over/double charges could all lead to a gun blowing up in my hand. I placed those items under the stupid part. Perhaps I am misjudging how difficult I think it would be for that to happen.

In my mind, I thought it would be easier for an incorrect charge to happen in a progressive press vs single stage?

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3 minutes ago, kc17 said:

I have discovered the adjustments to the die are very fine.

I have seen the headspace tool and similar, I was utilizing the plunk test as a poor man's version for now. Although, the one you posted is a reasonable price.

I am aware non/under/over/double charges could all lead to a gun blowing up in my hand. I placed those items under the stupid part. Perhaps I am misjudging how difficult I think it would be for that to happen.

In my mind, I thought it would be easier for an incorrect charge to happen in a progressive press vs single stage?

It is not that difficult - to achieve a catastrophic failure in the load stage - it depends on your workflow - it is FAR less likely to double charge a progressive for the simple fact that the pull level indexes the cases - so the same case can never be in the powder charge slot twice - however, I still like the lockout die.

Example - I am loading pistol powder in rifles for cast bullets - the window is 16-18 grains of 2400...no more no less.

Each case gets charged and a bullet placed on the case mouth to indicate it was charged and ready for seating....if for some reason there is even a slight thought of did I charge that case...the entire lot get's heads pulled and powder back and I restart..I do 20 round lots.

 

For pistol I am progressive - but you issue in the OP - is the taper crimp...the plunk test in your barrel tells you something but not everything.  Get the gauge....

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2 minutes ago, kc17 said:

...In my mind, I thought it would be easier for an incorrect charge to happen in a progressive press vs single stage?

When you load single stage, you repeat the same task multiple times before moving to the next task.

Dumping powder into a tray of 50 cases goes very easy  ... you position each case under the mouth of the powder hopper and cycle the handle the same way, with the same action each time to assure the same powder charge drops. If the hopper runs dry in the middle of a tray and you don't check before seating bullets, you will end up with a load of squib rounds.

Firing a live round behind a squib round can make for a really bad day.

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Gauge proves cartridges are too wide, they do not drop all the way down like a factory one does.

If I've understood the above correctly my options are to make further adjustments to the expanding and seating dies until I find the sweet spot or use a dedicated crimping die, correct?

 

 

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17 minutes ago, kc17 said:

Gauge proves cartridges are too wide, they do not drop all the way down like a factory one does.

If I've understood the above correctly my options are to make further adjustments to the expanding and seating dies until I find the sweet spot or use a dedicated crimping die, correct?

 

 

No  go back to square one....  readjust all dies...

 

You only need to truly add the taper crimp... 

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I agree with the above.  It looks like you need more crimp for sure.  If you get a slight Taper crimp and it still wont drop in you need to check the full length sizing die.  Also check the oal of the brass and make sure they are in range. I've seen plenty of new long ones.  The die you have will work fine for the taper crimp,  but I also use the Lee factory crimp die for everything in the 4th and final position.  They work great and are cheap.  The Lee die even works with cases that are different length so you dont have to be too exact on case length, which usually isn't a problem with pistol brass anyway.

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