45Doll 5,873 Posted July 26, 2020 Once in a while things do jump, even up in Sussex County. Then the excitement moved on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malsua 1,422 Posted July 26, 2020 Someone didn't read their NOTAMs FYI, the edge of the Trump No-fly zone is literally at the edge of my back yard. When I first bought my Mavic Pro drone everything was groovy. Then DJI started implementing the no fly restrictions. When I would attempt to take off from my deck when trump was in Bedminster, the software would honk beep and the drone would take off, lots of warnings. If I flew to the back yard it would stop letting me control it for the most part and land. It was like the controls lost 90% of their stick power. At this point, they had locked the firmware on the drone so you couldn't return it back to version without the NFZ stuff. I found a utility online that worked for a while(dumbledor) and set it back to .4 firmware. I then set the tablet I use to never connect to the internet because the software, even firewalled off, somehow knew I was running an old version and wouldn't let me fly. Had to uninstall it and re-install it from archive and stop it from ever getting an IP address. All this so I can fly well under controlled airspace in my back yard. Sheesh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
revenger 473 Posted July 26, 2020 Was monitoring the fighters on the radio and was pretty cool, air to air refueling and chasing intruders is always fun to listen to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10X 3,296 Posted July 26, 2020 Yep, the pilot screwed up. It's so easy to check the NOTAMS, and also a legal requirement to get a briefing before each flight. I'd heard from another pilot (though I haven't seen it in print anywhere) that the last time Trump was in town, someone penetrated the 10 mile inner core of the TFR, and it progressed to the point where the lead fligher was firing flares. They only do that after all of the other options have failed (the coast guard chopper intercept with the 'tune 121.5' signboard, the fighter fly-by, the second fighter fly by, the head-butt maneuver). If you're seeing flares from the lead fighter, it's time to be very concerned about what the trailing fighter is up to. The TFRs go right down to the ground. There is no 'under controlled airspace'--it's not like being under a class C or class B shelf where the controlled airspace starts a thousand or more feet overhead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malsua 1,422 Posted July 26, 2020 1 minute ago, 10X said: The TFRs go right down to the ground. There is no 'under controlled airspace'--it's not like being under a class C or class B shelf where the controlled airspace starts a thousand or more feet overhead. Yeah. I know. I studied up for my part 107 license and it covers all that. I never could get a slot to get tested within 100 miles of here so I gave up. It's probably a lot easier now, this was over 3 years ago. Class G's floor should be tree tops + 100 or something like that. Make a new zone called class P "The people's space" where I can fly my toys where no aircraft larger than it can ever possibly fly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted July 26, 2020 Jeebus I used to call in cuz the net was newish. Now you probably have an app for that.... or someone should make one. note**** I get royalties if you make one. I’m an idea man***** Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted July 26, 2020 I did hear the jets this AM - thought to myself "welp someone probably broke the no fly zone" - I was right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Underdog 1,593 Posted July 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Malsua said: Someone didn't read their NOTAMs FYI, the edge of the Trump No-fly zone is literally at the edge of my back yard. When I first bought my Mavic Pro drone everything was groovy. Then DJI started implementing the no fly restrictions. When I would attempt to take off from my deck when trump was in Bedminster, the software would honk beep and the drone would take off, lots of warnings. If I flew to the back yard it would stop letting me control it for the most part and land. It was like the controls lost 90% of their stick power. At this point, they had locked the firmware on the drone so you couldn't return it back to version without the NFZ stuff. I found a utility online that worked for a while(dumbledor) and set it back to .4 firmware. I then set the tablet I use to never connect to the internet because the software, even firewalled off, somehow knew I was running an old version and wouldn't let me fly. Had to uninstall it and re-install it from archive and stop it from ever getting an IP address. All this so I can fly well under controlled airspace in my back yard. Sheesh. Smart gun technology? Firmware issues? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10X 3,296 Posted July 26, 2020 24 minutes ago, Krdshrk said: I did hear the jets this AM - thought to myself "welp someone probably broke the no fly zone" - I was right. I did as well. 10:40 am. I didn’t even try to get outside for a visual-knew they’d be gone before I could get to the door, but it sure wasn’t bizjets flying overhead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJM981 924 Posted July 26, 2020 3 hours ago, Underdog said: Smart gun technology? Firmware issues? Oh like a civilian firearm lockout during civil unrest disguised as a firmware issue? It requires an update, but unfortunately it's a Fed Holiday, Weekend, offices closed due to Covid, riots, government shutdown, etc. Take your pick for the flavor of the weeks to shut down your rights. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handyman 5,682 Posted July 26, 2020 Just out of morbid curiosity, what happens to these dudes? Big fines? Loss of pilot license? Both? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malsua 1,422 Posted July 26, 2020 34 minutes ago, Handyman said: Just out of morbid curiosity, what happens to these dudes? Big fines? Loss of pilot license? Both? It all depends. If you've got any shady bs going on, expect the inquisition. If you just stumbled into the airspace, you might just get a warning. If you require fighters to launch flares? You're in a world of dog shit. License, aircraft, everything could be forfeit. Airspace is not something they screw around with. Unless you're Indiana Jones, then landing on the Taxiway, twice is no biggie. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10X 3,296 Posted July 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Handyman said: Just out of morbid curiosity, what happens to these dudes? Big fines? Loss of pilot license? Both? "It depends." The summer after Trump took office, there were 130+ intercepts over the Bedminster golf course within the first couple of months. Too many pilots were remaining clueless, so the Secret Service invited all local private pilots to a seminar in Bedminster. It was fascinating. The head of the presidential protection detail, one of the coast guard chopper intercept pilots, the head of the Allentown TRACON (the big cheese for that sector of airspace) all spoke. There may have been one of the fighter pilots present as well. Normal intercept procedure for a 'slow' private plane is to scramble a coast guard chopper they base at Somerset airport during presidential visits. It can catch most light planes, but has no trouble slowing down to match their speed. It's got a big lighted sign board on the side, and when it pulls along side it first displays 'tune 121.5' the emergency frequency the pilot should have been monitoring in the first place. They can give instructions over the air, but if that doesn't work, they can also use the sign board to give heading instructions and tell the plane where to land. If that doesn't work, or if the chopper can't get there in time, they scramble the fighters from one of the NYC area airports. They might be F15's, F16's, or F35's depending on the weekend--they rotate deployments. The lead fighter will slow as much as possible, pull along side to eyeball the trespasser, and try to establish radio contact or use visual intercept procedures Intercept procedures . If those don't work, they can perform a head-butt maneuver (pass under the target aircraft, then make an abrupt vertical climb in front of the target's nose) or fire flares. So far, one of more of those steps have always worked, but so far they've only been dealing with idiot pilots who weren't paying attention to the Temporary Flight Restriction. The Secret Service guy did say that a shoot-down authorization could only come from one of a handful of people in Washington, one of whom was always available for an instant consult. There is no local authority to shoot down a civilian aircraft. Once the pilot lands, they are met by local law enforcement (dispatched as soon as the landing location is known), and local law enforcement holds the pilot until the Secret Service arrives. The plane is inspected, and the pilot is taken away for a lengthy interview. The enforcement action taken depends on the severity of the infraction (Nicked the outer edge of the TFR? Barreled directly through the inner 10-mile no-fly zone?), the pilots history (Previous violations? Records show pilot normally gets a flight briefing but didn't today for some reason?). Were there any mitigating circumstances? (GPS satellite out of service? Electronics problems in the plane?) Penalties range from a temporary certificate suspension (perhaps with a requirement for some re-training), to a much longer certificate suspension, to permanent revocation. I think there is also a provision for substantial fines, but I'm not positive about that. If criminal intent is shown, that's a whole different thing... Interestingly, a lot of the violations the first year were guys just going up to practice take-offs and landings. Pattern altitude at some of the airports in the TFR is below radar coverage, so guys figured they could stay in the pattern for practice, and never be spotted on radar. The Secret Service guy made clear to us that airborne radar always follows the president. "Taxi around all you want, but if your wheels leave the ground, we'll know it" was the way he put it. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AS350Driver 56 Posted July 27, 2020 11 hours ago, Zeke said: Jeebus I used to call in cuz the net was newish. Now you probably have an app for that.... or someone should make one. note**** I get royalties if you make one. I’m an idea man***** I use an app called Foreflight, it will graphically place all TFR's including sporting events over the sectional chart. It also has all weather and airport info, so it's basically an electronic flight bag. On the other hand, calling for a briefing doesn't always work. I took off from Linden once, when flight service told me a presidential TFR was over, just to have Newark tower tell me that it had been extended, turned back and landed immediately. No harm no foul on that one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,895 Posted July 27, 2020 Keep in mind, Garmin aviation equipment has all been bricked. Apparently no one can update flight plans etc or recieve information through their software interface... I have no idea how this impacts the bigger picture, you should do your preflight homework.. when I used to fly model airplanes we would check for NFZ every time we went out. Unfortunately when people.rely on tech if it screws up... well ya screwed as well. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RUTGERS95 890 Posted July 27, 2020 I'm curious, what happens to the pilot if this happens? Mistakes do happen and would hate to see someone have to pay for that intercept Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10X 3,296 Posted July 27, 2020 1 minute ago, RUTGERS95 said: I'm curious, what happens to the pilot if this happens? Mistakes do happen and would hate to see someone have to pay for that intercept Look three posts up! :-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RUTGERS95 890 Posted July 27, 2020 15 minutes ago, 10X said: Look three posts up! :-) sorry, missed that thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,262 Posted July 30, 2020 On 7/26/2020 at 5:22 PM, 10X said: Once the pilot lands, they are met by local law enforcement (dispatched as soon as the landing location is known), and local law enforcement holds the pilot until the Secret Service arrives. The plane is inspected, and the pilot is taken away for a lengthy interview. The enforcement action taken depends on the severity of the infraction (Nicked the outer edge of the TFR? Barreled directly through the inner 10-mile no-fly zone?), the pilots history (Previous violations? Records show pilot normally gets a flight briefing but didn't today for some reason?). Were there any mitigating circumstances? (GPS satellite out of service? Electronics problems in the plane?) i've been reading that garmin's having a problem with ransom ware. wonder if this guy forgot to get a briefing, figuring anything he needed to know would show up on his gps? that said....i never left the ground without getting a briefing. if i was staying local where i didn't have to change freqs, i always kept 1 radio tuned to 121.5. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites