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Any thoughts on does this pass the Folding/telescoping stock No-No

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I used it and dig it.

Some people feel iffy about it, but the fact of the matter is that when installed, the stock doesn't adjust.

If you're nervous about it, use it in conjunction with a stock that requires a tool to remove (e.g. BCM gunfighter).

I am not a lawyer, but neither is anyone else here...

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From their site:

DISCLAIMER: This device is made to conform to the DOJ criteria but has not been approved

I've never seen anyone be subject to a random test of the adjustability (or not) of their stock, so it's probably a moot point.

You have to do what you're comfortable with.

I know at least half a dozen older shooters who are still unaware that there's a 10 round magazine limit but there's nobody out there searching for violators...

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3 hours ago, NRAJ said:

Nope the stock does not move at all. I bought one and its really a cool design simple and effective. Locks the stock in place just like it says.

 

 

neat.. 

as long as your gun does not have a "folding" or "telescoping stock" its not an evil feature.. sounds fine.. 

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On 7/27/2020 at 2:01 PM, SgtToadette said:

I used it and dig it.

Some people feel iffy about it, but the fact of the matter is that when installed, the stock doesn't adjust.

If you're nervous about it, use it in conjunction with a stock that requires a tool to remove (e.g. BCM gunfighter).

I am not a lawyer, but neither is anyone else here...

Here is a trick question. Do you need a tool to remove it after it gets installed? 

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 There is no "trick" and there is no standard to "fixing" a stock. 

IMO, and IANAL, if someone can't pick it up and adjust the stock, youre fine. 

But someone could do that here. The stock can still have the lever function, and moved rearward, unless set to max length. Will they care that it doesn't lock into place? Yes the lever needs to physically be pulled down,  and it requires effort, but its just risky because it will "telescope" at that point. 

The easy solution is to use magpul stocks that can have a pin, cut to fit that fixes the entire mechanism in place. All my stocks have been very easy to modify that way. I disassemble the lever and have found multiple ways to get a pin to keep it from freely moving. 

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1 hour ago, JackDaWack said:

 There is no "trick" and there is no standard to "fixing" a stock. 

IMO, and IANAL, if someone can't pick it up and adjust the stock, youre fine. 

But someone could do that here. The stock can still have the lever function, and moved rearward, unless set to max length. Will they care that it doesn't lock into place? Yes the lever needs to physically be pulled down,  and it requires effort, but its just risky because it will "telescope" at that point. 

The easy solution is to use magpul stocks that can have a pin, cut to fit that fixes the entire mechanism in place. All my stocks have been very easy to modify that way. I disassemble the lever and have found multiple ways to get a pin to keep it from freely moving. 

Actually this statement is not necessarily accurate

"But someone could do that here. The stock can still have the lever function, and moved rearward, unless set to max length."

When installed properly the stock cannot move forward or rewards. You would have to physically take the stock off, then remove the stock stop then reinstall the stock.

If you add epoxy to the stock stop then even that becomes an impossibility 

 

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15 minutes ago, NRAJ said:

Actually this statement is not necessarily accurate

"But someone could do that here. The stock can still have the lever function, and moved rearward, unless set to max length."

When installed properly the stock cannot move forward or rewards. You would have to physically take the stock off, then remove the stock stop then reinstall the stock.

If you add epoxy to the stock stop then even that becomes an impossibility 

 

How do you get the stock off? By moving it rearwards? The law doesn't state it has to lock into place... telescoping would be the action of removing it. The "stop" is only on the side that closes, not extends. 

I'm just saying, using this opens you up to a whole mess of interpretation. 

If you are going to epoxy it, why even bother with this?

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9 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

How do you get the stock off? By moving it rearwards? The law doesn't state it has to lock into place... telescoping would be the action of removing it. 

 

If you are going to epoxy it, why even bother with this?

I read that differently than you. The intent of the no telescoping or collapsing stock is to ban multiple shooting positions from the stock. This stock stop only offers one "shooting position"  It cannot change to a more forward shooting position nor a more rearward shooting position.  

The only other option that the stock stop offers is to take the stock off completely, and at that point in time you have no stock; collapsible, telescoping, or otherwise

And the epoxy thing is just a suggestion to the whole you need a tool to remove blah blah blah.

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1 hour ago, JackDaWack said:

How do you get the stock off? By moving it rearwards? The law doesn't state it has to lock into place... telescoping would be the action of removing it. The "stop" is only on the side that closes, not extends. 

I'm just saying, using this opens you up to a whole mess of interpretation. 

If you are going to epoxy it, why even bother with this?

.

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3 hours ago, NRAJ said:

I read that differently than you. The intent of the no telescoping or collapsing stock is to ban multiple shooting positions from the stock. This stock stop only offers one "shooting position"  It cannot change to a more forward shooting position nor a more rearward shooting position.  

The only other option that the stock stop offers is to take the stock off completely, and at that point in time you have no stock; collapsible, telescoping, or otherwise

And the epoxy thing is just a suggestion to the whole you need a tool to remove blah blah blah.

The law states, no telescoping. 

If someone can show it moving(telescoping), by pulling down on the lever.. then you can have some issues, even if you are extending it and it doesn't lock in place.. Not saying you will.. but if you have to argue your point, in this state you already lost. 

That's why I walked away from this product years ago. If someone touches my rifles, not a single stock will budge, no matter which way you push or pull. The lever itself has a pin preventing its movement. Hence the stock is fixed.. and not kinda sorta fixed depending how you explain it. 

I'm hesitant to describe how I pin mine due to the ease or reversing it, but if someone ever looked it over, they wouldn't be the wiser.  And the law doesn't say permanent. 

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8 hours ago, antiriad said:

Here is a trick question. Do you need a tool to remove it after it gets installed? 

'It' being what? The stock? Yes. It needs a punch or firing pin to remove.

The stock stop removes pretty easily from the tube one the stock is removed.

I don't really get the purpose of the question, though. The stock doesn't adjust with the stock stop installed. End of story. If you remove the stock stop and reinstall the stock, well then that's illegal.

It's like the old joke of the man going to the doctor saying "it hurts when I do this" and the doctor responds "then don't do that".

"Does the stock adjust with this device installed?"

"No."

"But what if I convert it to be illegal?"

"Then it's illegal."

If someone wants to point me to a case where someone was prosecuted/convicted for possession of an Assault Weapon because the method by which they attempted to comply was insufficient, then go for it. Otherwise we should stop driving ourselves nuts over these stupid hypotheticals.

TL;DR: Stock stop is fine. Stop overthinking it.

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So it seems this device could be a good option rather than pinning the stock. Also the fact that you need to first remove the stock to remove it makes in compliant. I will have to now find a proper carbine stock for my new lower.

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13 hours ago, SgtToadette said:

'It' being what? The stock? Yes. It needs a punch or firing pin to remove.

The stock stop removes pretty easily from the tube one the stock is removed.

I don't really get the purpose of the question, though. The stock doesn't adjust with the stock stop installed. End of story. If you remove the stock stop and reinstall the stock, well then that's illegal.

It's like the old joke of the man going to the doctor saying "it hurts when I do this" and the doctor responds "then don't do that".

"Does the stock adjust with this device installed?"

"No."

"But what if I convert it to be illegal?"

"Then it's illegal."

If someone wants to point me to a case where someone was prosecuted/convicted for possession of an Assault Weapon because the method by which they attempted to comply was insufficient, then go for it. Otherwise we should stop driving ourselves nuts over these stupid hypotheticals.

TL;DR: Stock stop is fine. Stop overthinking it.

Sorry, but in this state you do need to over think it. 

The only question is, "does the stock telescope"? 

Your questions have zero to do with the requirements of the law. 

No, it doesn't need a tool. The stock telescopes once the lever is pulled down far enough to get passed the internal block. The function of the stock is unchanged. 

In a court room, can someone show the stock moving along the buffer extension? Yes. Whether it locks in place is irrelevant, or the direction being rearward.

By all means, be the test case. 

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30 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

Sorry, but in this state you do need to over think it. 

The only question is, "does the stock telescope"? 

Your questions have zero to do with the requirements of the law. 

No, it doesn't need a tool. The stock telescopes once the lever is pulled down far enough to get passed the internal block. The function of the stock is unchanged. 

In a court room, can someone show the stock moving along the buffer extension? Yes. Whether it locks in place is irrelevant, or the direction being rearward.

By all means, be the test case. 

I'm not able to move the stock along the receiver extension with the handful of stocks I've tried. If you have first hand experience otherwise please share.

Everyone loves to threaten the test case but it will literally never happen.

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2 hours ago, PK90 said:

"Intent" needs to be shown for a conviction of the law.

IMHO, the installers intent is to fix the stock in one position. 

Done.

What if the inent was to never have a stock thats truly fixed and can be adjusted quickly without tools?

 

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2 hours ago, SgtToadette said:

I'm not able to move the stock along the receiver extension with the handful of stocks I've tried. If you have first hand experience otherwise please share.

Everyone loves to threaten the test case but it will literally never happen.

so how do you get it on or off without sliding it on the extension?

Unless I'm mistaken, all stocks when their lever is pulled to the down most position, will allow the slider pin to clear the inserts and "telescope" rearward until it comes off the extension.

 

Its all a threat until.. its not. Just don't be the one unlucky bastard i guess.

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5 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

so how do you get it on or off without sliding it on the extension?

Unless I'm mistaken, all stocks when their lever is pulled to the down most position, will allow the slider pin to clear the inserts and "telescope" rearward until it comes off the extension.

 

Its all a threat until.. its not. Just don't be the one unlucky bastard i guess.

Depressing the lever allows enough clearance to allow the stock to move between holes, but not enough to remove the stock from the tube. So the stock stop effectively moves that boundary to a single hole.

Stock installation depends on the specific stock, but those I've encountered need to have the pin extended further than the lever allows, usually through the use of a tool.

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Could depend on the stock, all of mine you dont depress the lever, but rather grab it where it contacts the pin, and you just pull down. It "over extends" the lever action you can get by simply depressing it. 

My concern is, that someone would figure it out and try and fuck you.. becuase it is NJ.

If you have a magpul stock there are much cheaper, more effective ways to get this done. My levers do not even move. You have to take the mechanism completely apart to get it to work again. But lets be real here its not hard to do, unless you epoxy the roll pin holding it all together. 

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So it seems the stock stop can be removed fairly easily if you slide off the adjustable stock and pop out both plastic pieces from the buffer tube and then reinsert the stock back in. It is the same grey are as pinning and welding a Muzzle break to the barel.

 

 

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9 hours ago, antiriad said:

So it seems the stock stop can be removed fairly easily if you slide off the adjustable stock and pop out both plastic pieces from the buffer tube and then reinsert the stock back in. It is the same grey are as pinning and welding a Muzzle break to the barel.

 

 

This is why I said to epoxy the stockstop in place. 

 

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