JackDaWack 2,894 Posted August 26, 2020 23 minutes ago, Krdshrk said: I don't think so.. and here's the thing - they'll used the increased costs for background checks and all of their other checks as justification for the increased fees. Voting machines cost money, too. And someone has to process those ballots. They already shot down literacy tests for voting, which is why I dont think something like mandatory training would stand up either. I'm still shocked no one has gone after the state over this, the fees may be cheap and not exactly considered a burden. It doesn't change the argument.. its a pay to play scheme.. and no one could defend doing this for any other right. I would file court fees right next to it... why do you pay for the right to defend yourself? Even if you win you still pay. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
revenger 472 Posted August 26, 2020 when a cop reads someone their 5th amendment right does he hand them a bill with an amount due? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted August 26, 2020 24 minutes ago, revenger said: when a cop reads someone their 5th amendment right does he hand them a bill with an amount due? When does a cop read someone their 5th Ammendment right? Are you referring to their Miranda Rights? You are infact handed a bill after exercising your right to a trial. Which is the 6th Ammendment. Plead guilty, no fee. Plead not guilty and you must pay.. just another pay to play scheme. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
revenger 472 Posted August 26, 2020 Miranda is basically your 5th amendment Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
father-of-three 235 Posted August 26, 2020 16 hours ago, Bklynracer said: Am I reading this right? The person gets $1270 after 18 years? What are they going to do with that? The state can add more? Of my money? There kidding right? The New York Times projects that, based on bond rates, the $1,000 bond would amount to approximately $1,270 with interest after 18 years; Murphy told the Times that the state “reserve the right” to add even more money to children’s account, calling the $1,000 proposal “the start.” $1270 does not buy much in this state, given the context this situation, unless the governor has a different definition of "middle class." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raz-0 1,256 Posted August 26, 2020 3 hours ago, Krdshrk said: I don't think so.. and here's the thing - they'll used the increased costs for background checks and all of their other checks as justification for the increased fees. Rather than burden a right, why not just eliminate the local redundancy and use the federal system directly? There's no way these fees can't be considered burdensome. There have been a number of cases pushed up the federal ladder over permitting of demonstrations and the first amendment. A fee of $100 to permits a frikin parade was not deemed excessive. However it has come down much more strictly on stationary protests, and because of such reasoning is why most of those permits are usually free. They pass muster as existing to ensure that the public welfare can be provided for (traffic control, security, sanitation, etc). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,871 Posted August 26, 2020 33 minutes ago, raz-0 said: Rather than burden a right, why not just eliminate the local redundancy and use the federal system directly? There's no way these fees can't be considered burdensome. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raz-0 1,256 Posted August 26, 2020 2 hours ago, father-of-three said: $1270 does not buy much in this state, given the context this situation, unless the governor has a different definition of "middle class." Sir you just aren't creative enough. See what you really have here is not a hand up, but a hand out. To other political machines. See when two blue states have bad finances and huge debt that makes their bonds garbage, what can you do? Why promise a pittance to a people. But say to get the free money it has to be invested. Then you invest the free money program seed money into another states similar program and they reciprocate. Boom free money all around! You get to print it without the fed being involved and you can borrow even more as you now have this long term asset. Less cynically, you use the promise of free money to get people to approve the borrowing. You then invest that in actual investments and hope to outperform whatever your guaranteed rate was and you keep the overage for the budget. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bklynracer 1,259 Posted August 26, 2020 52 minutes ago, raz-0 said: Less cynically, you use the promise of free money to get people to approve the borrowing. You then invest that in actual investments and hope to outperform whatever your guaranteed rate was and you keep the overage for the budget. Might work if we didn't have idiots and criminals doing it with their hands in the piggy bank. Maybe we should get Buffet to invest for us, we might have a chance. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voyager9 3,417 Posted August 26, 2020 1 hour ago, raz-0 said: Sir you just aren't creative enough. See what you really have here is not a hand up, but a hand out. To other political machines. See when two blue states have bad finances and huge debt that makes their bonds garbage, what can you do? Why promise a pittance to a people. But say to get the free money it has to be invested. Then you invest the free money program seed money into another states similar program and they reciprocate. Boom free money all around! You get to print it without the fed being involved and you can borrow even more as you now have this long term asset. Less cynically, you use the promise of free money to get people to approve the borrowing. You then invest that in actual investments and hope to outperform whatever your guaranteed rate was and you keep the overage for the budget. Don’t forget all the Goldman Sachs friends that will collect the fees for managing all the accounts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raz-0 1,256 Posted August 26, 2020 1 hour ago, voyager9 said: Don’t forget all the Goldman Sachs friends that will collect the fees for managing all the accounts. Very true. And remember those gs execs will donate to your campaign to keep the money flowing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
father-of-three 235 Posted August 27, 2020 18 hours ago, raz-0 said: Sir you just aren't creative enough. See what you really have here is not a hand up, but a hand out. To other political machines. See when two blue states have bad finances and huge debt that makes their bonds garbage, what can you do? Why promise a pittance to a people. But say to get the free money it has to be invested. Then you invest the free money program seed money into another states similar program and they reciprocate. Boom free money all around! You get to print it without the fed being involved and you can borrow even more as you now have this long term asset. Less cynically, you use the promise of free money to get people to approve the borrowing. You then invest that in actual investments and hope to outperform whatever your guaranteed rate was and you keep the overage for the budget. Yes. I am well aware of New Jersey's financial tactics to creatively spend more than larger states like Pennsylvania. I listened to the governor yesterday as he addressed the Legislature and tried to blame the state's financial crisis on Chris Christie, the US Senate, and the President. After hearing all that, and the reappropriation of certain state funds that will now be quietly directed towards state pensions and programs, my wife now wants to leave New Jersey as quickly as I do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nam Le 19 Posted August 27, 2020 NJ = Dems gov + Dems legislature + liberal court Can't expect anything good nowadays. Murphy got the balls to order mass mail-out ballot and no one was stopping him. What else can't he do? I too wanted to leave so badly but my wife's occupation only available in major cities in CA, Chicago, and Michigan, which are even worse. We both may find new job in Texas but it's just too hot over there. But of course if our property tax is going to increase next year, that can be the final straw. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YankeeSC 1,204 Posted August 27, 2020 18 minutes ago, Nam Le said: But of course if when our property tax is going to increases next year, that can will be the final straw. FIFY Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nam Le 19 Posted August 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, tomk62 said: FIFY Lol that depends on the school district & county I believe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fslater 62 Posted August 30, 2020 I'm wondering..... Bar the fact that this is a Boro issue/decision, does it in any form set a precedent on firearm/ammo taxes in NJ? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/new-jersey-mayor-rescinds-2-500-bill-issued-to-teen-over-peaceful-blm-protest/ar-BB18vsSh?ocid=anaheim-ntp-feeds "I have researched the issue further with my own counsel and it is clear that the exercise of Constitutional Rights are treated differently when it comes to Borough administration and billing." ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Also, I may be mistaken here, buy wasn't SCOTUS actually involved in banning requiring ID to vote based on low income discrimination (can't afford a, what is it? $8 state ID)? Would this not also apply to any/excessive tax on 2A Rights? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
45Doll 5,842 Posted August 30, 2020 Yes the proposed fee increases are ridiculous. But don't lose sight of the fact that since it's creation in 2016 the tax on gasoline has gone up over 250%! You may recall they drafted the law to permit increases in the tax anytime they didn't meet their income goals. How convenient! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
father-of-three 235 Posted August 30, 2020 15 minutes ago, 45Doll said: Yes the proposed fee increases are ridiculous. But don't lose sight of the fact that since it's creation in 2016 the tax on gasoline has gone up over 250%! You may recall they drafted the law to permit increases in the tax anytime they didn't meet their income goals. How convenient! When I drove to Florida in 2011 New Jersey had the lowest gas prices driving down to the gulf coast. This year it has been the second highest, with prices being as low as $1.81 in Tennessee and Alabama and $1.61 in Mississippi. Even Virginia was in the $1.90s. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bomber 1,088 Posted August 31, 2020 10 hours ago, 45Doll said: Yes the proposed fee increases are ridiculous. But don't lose sight of the fact that since it's creation in 2016 the tax on gasoline has gone up over 250%! You may recall they drafted the law to permit increases in the tax anytime they didn't meet their income goals. How convenient! That was Chris Christie's going away present to the Dems. What a gift, they get their gas tax hikes automatically yet can forever blame Christie. One of, if not the most, stupid unnecessary things he did. His term was up in a few months, he didn't have to do anything, he could have let Murphy and the Dems own the gas tax hike, but noooo.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fslater 62 Posted August 31, 2020 On 8/30/2020 at 12:33 PM, 45Doll said: Yes the proposed fee increases are ridiculous. But don't lose sight of the fact that since it's creation in 2016 the tax on gasoline has gone up over 250%! You may recall they drafted the law to permit increases in the tax anytime they didn't meet their income goals. How convenient! Yes this is true, but our founding fathers saw fit to designate "the right to keep and bare arms" as unalienable. Gas not so much. If I'm not mistaken Thomas Jefferson drove Tesla. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted September 5, 2020 Yes the fees are very Jim Crow like preventing lower income people from enjoying their constitutional right. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kadayo 39 Posted September 17, 2020 Any update on this? The millionaires tax is happening. Has anyone heard about the gun permit fees increases lately? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bomber 1,088 Posted September 18, 2020 3 hours ago, Kadayo said: Any update on this? The millionaires tax is happening. Has anyone heard about the gun permit fees increases lately? I would say its a done deal. Gun permit fees are small potatoes compared to the millionaires tax. Anyone think Sweeney is going to buck Murphy after the rampage Murphy has gotten away with the past six months. They're all probably in awe of him right now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Peel 7,148 Posted September 18, 2020 53 minutes ago, Bomber said: Anyone think Sweeney is going to buck Murphy after the rampage Murphy has gotten away with the past six months. They all probably in awe of him right now. I agree with your assessment, but popularity is a mighty fickle thing. Wait until the flight of NJ's top earners starts to accelerate even faster (and it will). It was only 4 years ago that the exodus of ONE hedge fund manager to Florida sent a shock wave through Trenton. In the attached article (from that time period), it mentioned that: "Acting New Jersey Treasurer Ford Scudder recently told the Senate Budget and Appropriations Committee that “the top 100 filers pay over 5.5 percent of all [gross income tax] payments” in the state... Over the long haul, I believe this latest stupidity coupled with the staggering debt that was recently approved will be viewed as the disastrous moves that they are... the final nails in the coffin of NJ's fiscal hopes. The only question is, will people wake up to that while he's still in office? We shall see.... https://www.forbes.com/sites/travisbrown/2016/04/18/new-jerseys-revenue-instability-exposed-by-david-teppers-move-to-florida/#22af95ae7309 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RUTGERS95 889 Posted September 18, 2020 going for permits tomorrow! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kadayo 39 Posted September 21, 2020 Looks like the permit fees stay the same for now. https://www.nj.com/politics/2020/09/new-budget-deal-kills-murphy-plans-to-raise-nj-taxes-on-cigarettes-firearms-but-hits-corporations-millionaires.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bomber 1,088 Posted September 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Kadayo said: Looks like the permit fees stay the same for now. https://www.nj.com/politics/2020/09/new-budget-deal-kills-murphy-plans-to-raise-nj-taxes-on-cigarettes-firearms-but-hits-corporations-millionaires.html Dems probably figured best not to push their luck for now. They've already got a good chunk of their wish list: Millionaires tax, permanent corporate tax increase, 5 billion to the pension fund, mail-in voting, gas tax and parkway toll hike, not a bad year. Now they just wait for the mail-in voting to pay off. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjrfd99 88 Posted September 23, 2020 On 8/25/2020 at 12:59 PM, Zeke said: Tax evasion comes to mind When your government is totally corrupt [NJ] You have a duty to deny them funding. We keep a running list - then make a trip to a lower tax state. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Haddoncoach 22 Posted September 27, 2020 New Jersey gun owners received a bit of good news recently when the Legislature sent the budget to Gov. Phil Murphy, and it did not contain the revenues from massive hikes the executive had earlier proposed on firearm permitting fees. View Related Articles Murphy had unsuccessfully proposed these Draconian fees before. Unrelenting, his 2020 budget proposal would have resulted in pistol purchase permit fees increasing from $2 to $48 and Firearms Identification card fees increasing from $5 to $98. It’s even more offensive considering the vast majority of states don’t even require these bureaucratic and costly hoops in the first place. This amounts to a poll tax on gun ownership and a fundamental constitutional right. The Governor, a Wall Street multi-millionaire who enjoys around-the-clock protection and a taxpayer-paid security detail, has clearly made his position known: elitists with money have more rights than average citizens. The ability to provide for one’s own self defense is a right and not a luxury reserved for the wealthy few. Murphy wants to make firearm ownership so expensive that average citizens simply could not afford to buy a firearm. At a time when Americans are having a tough time balancing their checkbooks and are witnessing historic civil unrest, many of them are trying to purchase firearms for the first time. This latest exhibit is just more proof how out-of-touch this wealthy and elitist Governor is with the average person. Thankfully, even the Legislature seemed to agree that Gov. Phil Murphy’s proposal was beyond extreme. Please continue to follow NRA-ILA for the latest updates on issues that matter to New Jersey NRA members. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjrfd99 88 Posted September 27, 2020 Only on hold by the rats till after election. Rats win ....... We lose. NEVER vote rat again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites