My FFL says that he cant submit my info to NICS without my Soc

[deerpark 83]

My previous FFL was a guy who worked out of his home on a part time basis.  After receiving a promotion at work, he gave up being a FFL. 

I then found a gun store and range which also did cheap compliance work.  They closed down. 

My search for a new FFL brought me to this guy.  We'll call him Dick.  He also works out of his home like my previous FFL.

I contact Dick, tell him I need a transfer.  He says no problem, sends his FFL to the seller and receives the firearm within a couple of days. 

Dick tells me to come by anytime to fill out the paperwork.  I stop by, fill out the info.  He takes a P2P and makes a copy of my DL and FID card.  Says it'll take a few days .  No problem.

 

Edited To Add:

I wanted to add that in addition to the normal paperwork that we're required to submit, Dick had me fill out a form that he himself created...

I completely forgot about this form until someone in the thread made a comment (below) about Fudd FFLs. 

I dont remember the specific questions that were on the form, but he had me initial each line and sign the bottom.

From what I recall, there was a question about firearm storage and another question about preventing anyone from coming into contact with the firearm who was under the age of 18...

 

 

Today, I get this text:

 

Which is what prompted the other thread:

 

 

I dont really have a firm position one way or the other.  I think there were times when I did provide it and other times when I skipped over that section.  

When you guys confirmed that its not a requirement, I was a little confused.  

So I told him I'd stop by.  

 

Is anyone still reading this?  

 

I get to his place and he hands me a blank piece of paper on which I can write my soc.  

I said, do you mind if I see the form.  He hands me the 4473 which I had completed on the previous day.  I point out that it says the soc is optional. 

Dick replies that its optional on this form but he needs to enter it into the NICS system in order to proceed. 

 

Ok, now I'm confused. 

 

I replied that I dont necessarily mind providing it but I dont think its a requirement. 

We went back and forth a few times. 

It was a calm discussion.  Not the least bit heated.  

I said that I'd like to talk to a few friends if thats ok.

Dick replied that I'm free to do whatever I'd like but the last thing he says is that he cannot submit NICS without my soc. 

I said that I'll be in touch and I head out.

 

About 5 minutes later, Dick gives me a call and says that he called the state police/NICS etc and they said that he can submit it without my soc but he adds that it might cause delays or may result in an error etc. 

I replied that makes sense and I gave him my soc. 

 

So, what was all that?

 

Ive got a couple of theories. 

1.  Hes an idiot who really thought it was a requirement. 

2. He wants to steal my identity. 

3. He wants to run his own background search. 

 

I dont know to what extent a FFL can affect the outcome of a NICS check but I'll be SHOCKED if my NICS goes through.

I'm fully expecting it to be denied, come back inconclusive etc.  Not because theres anything in my past which would warrant a fail but simply because he's going to affect its outcome, assuming that a FFL has the ability to do so.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[PK90 3,570]

I vote #2 first, then #1. Report him.

[dajonga 396]

I work sales at a large gun shop. Entering your SS# is optional. If a customer provides it on the 4473, I enter it. If it is blank, I skip that line. I have seen no difference in the time NICS takes for folks who provide SS to those who don't.

The NJ NICS portal makes it impossible to submit a NICS with the wrong info. If the DL doesn't match their records, it will not let you proceed. Same with DOB, SBI#, address, name spelling etc.

I would also look for another FFL.

 

[JT Custom Guns 956]

SS number is NOT required to submit a NICs check - time for you to find a new FFL.........

[JT Custom Guns 956]

13 years and never once submitted a SS number on a NICS check.

Also - I would bet he never spoke to the NJSP or the NICs unit because I just talked to the senior Supervisor at NICs and she said absolutely not required.

Your FFL is full of shit!

 

[dajonga 396]

4 minutes ago, JT Custom Guns said:

SS number is NOT required to submit a NICs check - time for you to find a new FFL.........

I can vouch for JT Custom Guns. A great guy to deal with.

[JT Custom Guns 956]

Please tell us the Real Name of this 'Dick"

[tommy3rd 132]

16 minutes ago, JT Custom Guns said:

Please tell us the Real Name of this 'Dick"

Yeah, I say out him. What are the chances that you get sued for libel? and it's not libel if it's the truth. 

[Underdog 1,593]

In my dealings with a local FFL he does not seem to be too knowledgeable and would rather err than do the wrong thing... think of FUDD FFL.  I don't think there is ill intent, but..

[deerpark 83]

4 hours ago, PK90 said:

I vote #2 first, then #1. Report him.

 

Interesting. 

I didnt realize that was an option. 

Not sure whom I would report him to and what I should tell them.

 

On a side note, how long I do have to wait to avoid the forum merging my replies.  I really want to address the points in here individually.   

 

 

[deerpark 83]

4 hours ago, dajonga said:

I work sales at a large gun shop. Entering your SS# is optional. If a customer provides it on the 4473, I enter it. If it is blank, I skip that line. I have seen no difference in the time NICS takes for folks who provide SS to those who don't.

The NJ NICS portal makes it impossible to submit a NICS with the wrong info. If the DL doesn't match their records, it will not let you proceed. Same with DOB, SBI#, address, name spelling etc.

I would also look for another FFL.

 

 

Ok so if the guy now wants to be vindictive by spelling my name incorrectly, entering an incorrect DOB or Soc, youre saying thats not really possible?

I'm going to pose this question to a couple of you guys:

In your opinion, is there anything he could intentionally do in order to negatively affect the outcome of a NICS check?

[deerpark 83]

4 hours ago, JT Custom Guns said:

13 years and never once submitted a SS number on a NICS check.

Also - I would bet he never spoke to the NJSP or the NICs unit because I just talked to the senior Supervisor at NICs and she said absolutely not required.

Your FFL is full of shit!

 

 

Agreed.  I also dont think he spoke to anyone. 

So confused as to why he was so desperate for my Soc:

 

"Its a one time use".

"They use it and discard it".

"its no big deal".

"If you dont provide it, I'll have to return the firearm".

"Ive never had someone not provide it after I told then I needed it"... 

[deerpark 83]

Definitely not going back to this guy but for this one check, I think I'm stuck until the process is over.  

  Again, if the NICS check actually goes through, I'll be shocked. 

[fishnut 2,358]

I never provided my SSN for purchases when I was in NJ. I was never denied or held up in any way. 

Op- if I were in your position I'd out the FFL here and have the gun transfered to another FFL. Njs laws are ridiculous as it it no need for FFLs to make it any worse 

[deerpark 83]

1 hour ago, fishnut said:

I never provided my SSN for purchases when I was in NJ. I was never denied or held up in any way. 

Op- if I were in your position I'd out the FFL here and have the gun transfered to another FFL. Njs laws are ridiculous as it it no need for FFLs to make it any worse 

 

100%

Unfortunately, I think he's already started the process. 

I think I'm stuck for now. 

Now I'm just trying to prepare myself for what seems like an inevitable denial.  

Waiting to hear back from others as to whether he's able to influence the outcome. 

[PK90 3,570]

2 hours ago, deerpark said:

 

100%

Unfortunately, I think he's already started the process. 

I think I'm stuck for now. 

Now I'm just trying to prepare myself for what seems like an inevitable denial.  

Waiting to hear back from others as to whether he's able to influence the outcome. 

He can just tell you that you were denied.

[JT Custom Guns 956]

3 hours ago, deerpark said:

 

100%

Unfortunately, I think he's already started the process. 

I think I'm stuck for now. 

Now I'm just trying to prepare myself for what seems like an inevitable denial.  

Waiting to hear back from others as to whether he's able to influence the outcome. 

IF there were an issue with your backround that would cause a denial, your SS number would have no impact on the decision.

 

[gleninjersey 2,139]

I just did a NICS recently.  Didn't provide SSN#.  

I've been told in the past that it will help reduce a denial especially if you have a common name.  

Plently of other FFL's around.  As others have recommneded, look around for a different for your next purchase.  Ask in advance if not provididing your SSN# will be an issue.

If concerned about possibly identify theft, purchase Life Lock or some similiar service for a a while.

Sorry you had a bad experience.  Leave a some what negative review if they are a member here if you dont' want to out them publicly in this thread.  
 

 

[Malsua 1,422]

1 hour ago, gleninjersey said:

If concerned about possibly identify theft, purchase Life Lock or some similiar service for a a while.

 

You can log on to Experian and freeze your credit temporarily.  I would do this if I were you.

I was a victim of identity theft and it took months to get it straightened out.  It REALLY sucks when you get a new phone call from yet another account the thieves opened.

 

 

[deerpark 83]

3 hours ago, PK90 said:

He can just tell you that you were denied.

 

Without even running the actual check?

According to Penguin1210's thread, theres a denial process:

form that I would have to sign and follow-up paperwork from NICS. 

 

I hate having to think cynically about people but because of his bizarre behavior, I'm kind of forced to...

[JT Custom Guns 956]

2 minutes ago, deerpark said:

 

Without even running the actual check?

According to Penguin1210's thread, theres a denial process:

form that I would have to sign and follow-up paperwork from NICS. 

 

I hate having to think cynically about people but because of his bizarre behavior, I'm kind of forced to...

NO - the Dealer cannot deny you nless he has a valid reason, such as a suspicion of fraud, or other reason the dealer thinks your not trustworthy to do the transfer, but that is almost never done. The dealer submits your info into the NJ NICS system and the NICS unit submits it to the FBI system, along with NJ system looking at your backround & qualification to own the firearm. If THEY deny you, there is an apeal process yo ucan go through, but otherwise the dealer gets an approval number from the state and that allows him to complete the transfer (The approval number is not noted on the 4473 and NJ HG permits and NJ COE forms.

My suggestion to you is to relax, enjoy your holiday weekend and wait the 3-4 businees days from the nics submittal and see what happens. Don;t get all bent up about a denial until that actually happens - chill...........

[deerpark 83]

2 hours ago, JT Custom Guns said:

IF there were an issue with your backround that would cause a denial, your SS number would have no impact on the decision.

 

 

Ok JT, so he cant misspell my name or enter the incorrect DOB (for example), because it has to match my DL correct?

And even if he were to enter the incorrect Soc, it wouldnt cause a denial?

[JT Custom Guns 956]

The new system will give him a Verification Failed Pop Up response if he enters any wrong info. like transposing your FID number or wrong date of birth, ect.  Everything has to be in order or the system won't accept the entry.

I can't say for sure on the SS number because in 13 years I have never entered  into the system, but as I said earlier, I spoke with the Head Supervisor at the NICs unit and they don;t even check SS numbers unless it's needed to help ID someone with very common info like a John Smith for example, and even then it's only used as a secondary check - relax - have a nice drink - If you get some funky reply from your FFL "Dick" call me and I'll have my ATF agent look into it for you.............

[PK90 3,570]

You can be denied a firearm purchase for any reason the dealer wants, and he doesn't have to disclose the reason.

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-06-17/dealers-choice-gun-store-owners-can-deny-anyone-they-want

https://www.quora.com/In-the-US-if-a-gun-shop-owner-believes-that-a-certain-customer-should-not-be-allowed-to-obtain-a-weapon-even-if-their-background-check-comes-back-clean-are-they-legally-allowed-to-refuse-the-sale

 

[JohnnyB 4,322]

I agree with "CHILL"!  You will be fine!  You are over thinking this!

[deerpark 83]

10 hours ago, JT Custom Guns said:

NO - the Dealer cannot deny you nless he has a valid reason, such as a suspicion of fraud, or other reason the dealer thinks your not trustworthy to do the transfer, but that is almost never done. The dealer submits your info into the NJ NICS system and the NICS unit submits it to the FBI system, along with NJ system looking at your backround & qualification to own the firearm. If THEY deny you, there is an apeal process yo ucan go through, but otherwise the dealer gets an approval number from the state and that allows him to complete the transfer (The approval number is not noted on the 4473 and NJ HG permits and NJ COE forms.

My suggestion to you is to relax, enjoy your holiday weekend and wait the 3-4 businees days from the nics submittal and see what happens. Don;t get all bent up about a denial until that actually happens - chill...........

 

9 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

I agree with "CHILL"!  You will be fine!  You are over thinking this!

 

Agreed.  I've already come to terms with what may happen.  Now I'm just trying to gather info so I can respond in an informed way if required.   

[tommy3rd 132]

8 hours ago, PK90 said:

You can be denied a firearm purchase for any reason the dealer wants, and he doesn't have to disclose the reason.

So whatever reason the owner says for not selling you a gun would basically be a “business decision” and you just move on and find another dealer. 

[deerpark 83]

1 hour ago, tommy3rd said:

So whatever reason the owner says for not selling you a gun would basically be a “business decision” and you just move on and find another dealer. 

 

Right.

But to PK's point, in the event of an actual NICS denial, I think theres some type of process/disclosure required.

[JT Custom Guns 956]

There is, but IF the NICS units comes back wit ha denial, they will not disclose the reason to the FFL.

The FFL only knows approved or denied.

As I said earlier, there is an appeal process in which the denied person would need to request an explanation in writing from the NICS unit.

[deerpark 83]

On 9/5/2020 at 10:53 AM, Underdog said:

In my dealings with a local FFL he does not seem to be too knowledgeable and would rather err than do the wrong thing... think of FUDD FFL.  I don't think there is ill intent, but..

 

So much this. 

I completely forgot, he had me sign another "form" which he drew up himself. 

It was about 7 questions.

I cant remember exactly what was on it.  Some of the questions were redundant to the 4473 and I think there was a question about allowing access to minors and storage. 

I thought it was kind of funny, read through and signed it but that was before I realized that this guy is insane. 

ETA:

He had me initial each line of his custom form and then sign at the bottom...