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Old Glock guy

Keeping a long gun in the car: tactical considerations

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There have been many discussion on this board, including one currently, on the legalities of keeping a "truck gun" in New Jersey.  The requirements are that one needs to possess an FID, and the gun has to be unloaded.  There is no need for it to be stored where it is inacessible, but generally they are kept in a trunk or in the back compartment of an SUV.

My concerns in this discussion are what you would or do keep close by, and could you imagine a scenario in which it would be feasible to access and load it in an emergency?

I believe a lot of the decision on what to have with you depends on how one feels about loaded magazines, a subject which is a gray area, and has been frequently discussed.  If you are OK with loaded mags, I would think your best bet would be to have a rifle or carbine with loaded mags nearby that could be quickly used to get gun up and running. 

If, like me, you are leery about carrying around loaded magazines, I think your next best bet would be to have a shotgun with some buckshot and/or slugs in a pouch nearby.  I have found that I can go from my driver's seat, uncase the shotgun, and load a few shells in about 30-40 seconds.  Would that ever be useful in a real world scenario?  I'm not sure, but I feel more comfortable having it with me than not. 

Curious to hear how others feel about this.

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I think the shotgun you have in the car, unloaded, would be useless due to length and being unloaded, in a real world scenario...

You could never, again imo, in a critical event get it uncased, loaded and brought to action without getting pummeled while doing so.

 

If you going to carry a gun, carry it loaded and ready to action in milliseconds to seconds...

 

Every see the videos of guys advancing with knives, running and closing distance in seconds on LEO'S....

30-40 seconds is an eternity and your already dead.

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Would an non-nfa other firearm have the same travel parameters as a conventional long gun? With those mentioned guns such as the Troy or shockwave, they can fit in a smaller bag and be more handier in a vehicle. 

 

An other consideration to keep in mind with vehicle carry in NJ is ammunition travel restrictions such as conventional hollow points. 

 

A conventional trunk gun never really dwelled on me, but when I travel out of state to visit friends out in Vermont for example, a gun I do take with me is my "travel gun" a Stevens 311A 12 gauge sxs shotgun. Broken down, it fits in my duffel bag and when I am out of the car, I am not lugging around a conventional long gun case.

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14 minutes ago, always_an_eagle said:

Would an non-nfa other firearm have the same travel parameters as a conventional long gun? With those mentioned guns such as the Troy or shockwave, they can fit in a smaller bag and be more handier in a vehicle...

This has been discussed here before.

A non-NFA 'other' is NOT a long gun per  PRNJ statutes. So carrying an 'other' like many of us carry 'long guns' as trunk guns is not necessarily a good idea imho.

Each individual must assess the amount of risk he is willing to tolerate in his daily life.

Otherwise, we'd all be carrying loaded handguns on our hip (like they strongly suggest at the "Juan, Jose & DeShawn Gun Shop", which is on this corner in a '66 Impala tonight, and in a '70 Imperial on that corner tomorrow night. And the only paperwork involved is GREEN)

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if you're doing a shotgun (or more likely, a shockwave?) I'd think learning how to load single rounds through the ejection port and firing, on a smooth and consistent basis, would be faster and more useful than trying to load it fully up before engaging.

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41 minutes ago, njJoniGuy said:

This has been discussed here before.

A non-NFA 'other' is NOT a long gun per  PRNJ statutes. So carrying an 'other' like many of us carry 'long guns' as trunk guns is not necessarily a good idea imho.

Each individual must assess the amount of risk he is willing to tolerate in his daily life.

Otherwise, we'd all be carrying loaded handguns on our hip (like they strongly suggest at the "Juan, Jose & DeShawn Gun Shop", which is on this corner in a '66 Impala tonight, and in a '70 Imperial on that corner tomorrow night. And the only paperwork involved is GREEN)

I've been trying to wrap my head around this by reading the statutes. 

Handguns, shotguns and rifles are listed as regulated items for transport. Whether from point a to b, or without obtaining a FPID. 

Everything else falls under this paragraph:

Other weapons:

d.Other weapons. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any other weapon under circumstances not manifestly appropriate for such lawful uses as it may have is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

I dont see anything mentioned in the law that would prevent someone from keeping an "other" in their trunk as long as its for a lawful purpose.

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8 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

I dont see anything mentioned in the law that would prevent someone from keeping an "other" in their trunk as long as its for a lawful purpose.

The question that comes up in this state, is self-defense a lawful act?

I think that will apply to anything you carry in your trunk? How easy can it be spun that you had other intentional reasons to carry them?

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So in these imaginary scenarios you're leaving firearms in your vehicles, unattended, for extended periods of time, right?  Like if you're going to the grocery store, church, the mall, etc, you're bringing your long gun with you and just leaving it in the vehicle?

Or are you only loading up when going to get gas or on short trips where you won't be leaving the vehicle?

It won't help in a carjacking or a drive-by.

I'm trying to figure out the scenario where the risk/reward calculation makes sense.

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Sniper said:

The question that comes up in this state, is self-defense a lawful act?

I think that will apply to anything you carry in your trunk? How easy can it be spun that you had other intentional reasons to carry them?

Doesn't have to be for self defense. I can just keep it in there to go to the range when ever I want. 

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21 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

Doesn't have to be for self defense. I can just keep it in there to go to the range when ever I want. 

That's my point. What happens when you get pulled over for a burned out taillight, and it's seen in the back seat? You get a cop with an attitude, and now you got some "xplainin" to do...

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When I carry a long gun in my truck, it is in a cheap hard plastic case from Cabellas, no locks, just slide the tabs to open it. Loaded mags in the console under my right arm. I can pull over and have it ready to go in seconds.

If you are really paranoid then put that same gun in a womans stocking (actually legal) and have a small blade to slice it open at the mag well and trigger guard and insert your loaded mag.........

I don't carry handguns unless going to a range or FFL, not worth the risk.

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8 hours ago, Sniper said:

That's my point. What happens when you get pulled over for a burned out taillight, and it's seen in the back seat? You get a cop with an attitude, and now you got some "xplainin" to do...

But its my constitutional right isnt it? If it were a mask you would say fk the cops lol. 

 

Either way, it's no different than the BOB in my trunk. 

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if i were going to do this....i would consider a keltec placed in a backpack. loaded mags in a seperate compartment of said backpack.  i know the loaded mag thing is a grey area, but the statutes do not state anywhere(that  i have found) that the mags be empty. i feel that them being in a seperate compartment of the backpack covers any legal issues.

 it might not be the best solution in the world....but it's better than nothing and easy to bring to action in only a few seconds........

 

 now i'm thinking harder about this again

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5 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

if i were going to do this....i would consider a keltec placed in a backpack. loaded mags in a seperate compartment of said backpack.  i know the loaded mag thing is a grey area, but the statutes do not state anywhere(that  i have found) that the mags be empty. i feel that them being in a seperate compartment of the backpack covers any legal issues.

 it might not be the best solution in the world....but it's better than nothing and easy to bring to action in only a few seconds........

 

 now i'm thinking harder about this again

Be careful what keltec you use in terms of ammo. If you are using a sub2000, keep in mind of NJ's restrictions on hollowpoint ammunition

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Just now, always_an_eagle said:

Be careful what keltec you use in terms of ammo. If you are using a sub2000, keep in mind of NJ's restrictions on hollowpoint ammunition

believe it or not, i was sorta taking that into account. between that restriction, and the fact that i'd never tested hp through that rifle, i was pretty much thinking plain old ball ammo. the bad guy don't give a dam what he's shot with.......

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15 hours ago, Sota said:

if you're doing a shotgun (or more likely, a shockwave?) I'd think learning how to load single rounds through the ejection port and firing, on a smooth and consistent basis, would be faster and more useful than trying to load it fully up before engaging.

Yes, I've practiced emergency loading one into the chamber and shoving two into the tube, but depending on the proximity of an adversary, the gun could be up after the first round is in.

 

13 hours ago, njJoniGuy said:

If I need my trunk gun in mere seconds, I'm fucked.

If I have a few moments to retrieve and load it, I'm covered.

When the shit comes down, I'd rather have it than not.

Exactly!  Having a concealed carry handgun available would be a lot quicker, but that's not an option in NJ.

 

14 hours ago, 124gr9mm said:

So in these imaginary scenarios you're leaving firearms in your vehicles, unattended, for extended periods of time, right?  Like if you're going to the grocery store, church, the mall, etc, you're bringing your long gun with you and just leaving it in the vehicle?

Or are you only loading up when going to get gas or on short trips where you won't be leaving the vehicle?

It won't help in a carjacking or a drive-by.I'm trying to figure out the scenario where the risk/reward calculation makes sense.

 

17 hours ago, USRifle30Cal said:

I think the shotgun you have in the car, unloaded, would be useless due to length and being unloaded, in a real world scenario...

You could never, again imo, in a critical event get it uncased, loaded and brought to action without getting pummeled while doing so.

 

If you going to carry a gun, carry it loaded and ready to action in milliseconds to seconds...

 

Every see the videos of guys advancing with knives, running and closing distance in seconds on LEO'S....

30-40 seconds is an eternity and your already dead.

Clearly, this wouldn't work as a Tuller drill.  You would need some time to get the gun up.

Here are a few possible scenarios that I came up with just off the top of my head:

1. You are at a mall.  You are outside and your family is inside, and there is an active shooter. 

2. You come home to find that home invaders are holding your family.

3. You turn a corner and are surrounded by a mob which begins to close in on you.  You make the calculation that the crowd is too large to drive through.

Are any of these likely?  Of course not.  But neither is the chance of ever being the victim of a violent crime, yet it happens to people all the time. 

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2 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

believe it or not, i was sorta taking that into account. between that restriction, and the fact that i'd never tested hp through that rifle, i was pretty much thinking plain old ball ammo. the bad guy don't give a dam what he's shot with.......

If you can find it in stock, you can always go with Hornady Critical Defense or Critical Duty ammunition, which the NJSP has said is not hollowpoint ammunition, has a rubber tip that fills the cavity of the hollow point. 

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15 hours ago, Sota said:

if you're doing a shotgun (or more likely, a shockwave?) I'd think learning how to load single rounds through the ejection port and firing, on a smooth and consistent basis, would be faster and more useful than trying to load it fully up before engaging.

Easy to do on a pump.  If you're carrying the gun in your trunk have it empty, safety off,  action open, loading gate pushed down.  Drop your first round into the action and close.  You are ready to fire that first shot.  Then load up magazine.

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22 minutes ago, Old Glock guy said:

Yes, I've practiced emergency loading one into the chamber and shoving two into the tube, but depending on the proximity of an adversary, the gun could be up after the first round is in.

 

Exactly!  Having a concealed carry handgun available would be a lot quicker, but that's not an option in NJ.

 

 

Clearly, this wouldn't work as a Tuller drill.  You would need some time to get the gun up.

Here are a few possible scenarios that I came up with just off the top of my head:

1. You are at a mall.  You are outside and your family is inside, and there is an active shooter. 

2. You come home to find that home invaders are holding your family.

3. You turn a corner and are surrounded by a mob which begins to close in on you.  You make the calculation that the crowd is too large to drive through.

Are any of these likely?  Of course not.  But neither is the chance of ever being the victim of a violent crime, yet it happens to people all the time. 

IMO - and like asssholes and noses we all have them...  :)

 

1) Great active shooter at the mall and you are outside running in with a shotgun - responding units cannot identify you from friend or foe - odds are your down.

2) Home invaders holding your family?  is your family not practiced in the usage of firearms that are at home...?

This is the best one and one I have thought about...

3) Turn the corner and a mob is closing in on you. Why leave the protection of the vehicle to grab a trunk weapon with limited ammo etc.  Perform any vehicular maneuvers you can to avoid the crowd...if it is in the trunk you are not getting to it if you cannot get away from the mob...

Look we all do what we think is correct - and rehearsal of possible scenarios is good ! But in the state of NJ you are hamstrung in many scenarios for self  defense, one additional reason why I am leaving.

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28 minutes ago, Old Glock guy said:

Exactly!  Having a concealed carry handgun available would be a lot quicker, but that's not an option in NJ.

Carry a Taser. That will slow him down enough to give you time to grab the rifle.

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29 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Carry a Taser. That will slow him down enough to give you time to grab the rifle.

Actually, I recently started carrying OC spray.  Found one that's pretty compact and easy to deploy. (POM)

USRifle30Cal, sounds like it's not right for you, but I'm still going to keep mine.  :D

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22 minutes ago, Old Glock guy said:

Actually, I recently started carrying OC spray.  Found one that's pretty compact and easy to deploy. (POM)

USRifle30Cal, sounds like it's not right for you, but I'm still going to keep mine.  :D

wasp or hornet spray is pretty good.  It's got a 30ft stream and pretty effective on 2 legged critters....

 

Check that edit.....not as effective as one believes.  disregard, I'm wrong and misinformed

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1 hour ago, always_an_eagle said:

If you can find it in stock, you can always go with Hornady Critical Defense or Critical Duty ammunition, which the NJSP has said is not hollowpoint ammunition, has a rubber tip that fills the cavity of the hollow point. 

i like that idea, but that's also untested in the keltec.......

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1 hour ago, tomk62 said:

I don't leave home without it.

I usually do too, even when taking the pup for a walk. It works both on 2 legged creatures and 4 legged creatures. I'll occasionally take the Taser, but it's tougher to conceal, and I only have one shot to make it count versus multiple blasts from the spray.

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