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Keeping a long gun in the car: tactical considerations

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11 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

What you have quoted is most likely incomplete!  There is no mention or differentiation between handgun or long gun transport.

I agree that the PDF covers handgun transport but not long arms.  The laws are different! Others who are more knowledgeable that I will chime in here.

Transportation is covered in 2C:39-6 and that (as well as the PDF) says firearms, meaning it would apply to both handguns and long guns.  If you say the laws are different for transporting long guns and handguns could you show me where?  I'm not trying to be an ass, I'd like to know because the way these laws are written can be like trying to put together a jigsaw puzzle wearing a blind fold. 

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22 hours ago, Regular Guy said:

Transportation is covered in 2C:39-6 and that (as well as the PDF) says firearms, meaning it would apply to both handguns and long guns.  If you say the laws are different for transporting long guns and handguns could you show me where?  I'm not trying to be an ass, I'd like to know because the way these laws are written can be like trying to put together a jigsaw puzzle wearing a blind fold. 

Firearm transport covers the manner it which it is transported. 

Handguns are the only firearms in regards to when and where they can be transported. 

The transportation statement is required because handguns are outright illegal to posses outside the home/property/place of business. So there needs to be an exception.. "nothing shall prevent". Long guns are not illegal to posses anywhere, except school grounds.(when you have a FPID)

That statutory language is different for rifles and shotguns because their possession is not outright banned, thus requiring no exception for transport to and from. 

 

You have to start with the possession laws, and then work through the exemptions. 

The law doesn't say firearms must only be transported from point a to b.. it just says nothing can prevent you from transporting between specific places home/range/store. Becuase in the case of handguns, with out that clarification, you couldn't leave a gun store with a newly purchased handgun. 

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Handguns and long guns are treated very differently in NJ when dealing with the issue of transportation.

I am not going to research the laws, but I know for a fact that you can transport a long gun which is in a gun case, bag, or even your wives stockings, as long as YOU have a valid FID card AND it is unloaded!

Handguns, forget about it. To and from a gun range, gun shop, FFL, gun show, that's about it. Unloaded, cased, and no stops for virtually anything! Sorry if you have to get gas or pee, don't get caught! Some cop can really ruin your day, and maybe your life. And that includes hollow point ammo!

You can have a case of .50 BMG on the seat next to you, don't have a single hollow point though, they can really jack you up!

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5 hours ago, M4BGRINGO said:

Handguns and long guns are treated very differently in NJ when dealing with the issue of transportation.

They are not actually that different.

Both start out the same way - you can't have a handgun or a long gun - at all, anywhere at any time, in any condition

But then the carve-outs begin.

You can't have a shotgun or rifle unless you previously obtained an FPIC. However, the next line says you can't have a loaded shotgun or rifle.

You can't have a handgun unless you have previously obtained a permit to carry a handgun (hen's teeth, but the provision is in the statutes). This is the difference between handguns and long guns. There is nothing saying that handguns must be unloaded at this point.

There are a bunch of other carve-outs based on job, such as armed services, LEO, etc.

Then come the exemptions. The above offences do not apply in the following circumstances. If you are not committing an act that would be an offence so far, you don't need to worry about the exemptions. You cannot be exempted from an offence you are not committing.

You can have a handgun or long gun at your home, place of business, other land owned or possessed, etc. No mention of loaded or unloaded so loaded is OK.

You can transport between exempted locations, BUT you have to be travelling directly to/from, the firearm must be unloaded and cased, in a securely tied package, or locked in the trunk. This applies equally to handguns and long guns if you don't have the required permits.

Now, how does this apply to truck guns?

Unless you have the unicorn - a permit to carry a handgun - you cannot have a handgun as your truck gun. Ah, let's move on.

If you have an FPIC you can have a shotgun or rifle with you almost anywhere, but it must be unloaded. You can have loaded magazines separate from the gun. The whole story of not keeping loaded mags while travelling was a theory put about by a well known lawyer because there was nothing saying that a loaded mag could not be construed as a loaded gun. The NJSP have since said in writing that loaded magazines are OK to transport so that theory is now put to bed, or so one would hope.

A non-NFA other is neither a handgun or a rifle or shotgun so none of the above applies. As a previous poster stated, it comes down to any other weapon and whether you can show that you had a lawful purpose to be in possession of it. There is no case law as far as I know and no guidance from the AG. (Please don't go and ask him, PLEASE!!!!)

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3 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

They are not actually that different.

Both start out the same way - you can't have a handgun or a long gun - at all, anywhere at any time, in any condition

But then the carve-outs begin.

You can't have a shotgun or rifle unless you previously obtained an FPIC. However, the next line says you can't have a loaded shotgun or rifle.

You can't have a handgun unless you have previously obtained a permit to carry a handgun (hen's teeth, but the provision is in the statutes). This is the difference between handguns and long guns. There is nothing saying that handguns must be unloaded at this point.

There are a bunch of other carve-outs based on job, such as armed services, LEO, etc.

Then come the exemptions. The above offences do not apply in the following circumstances. If you are not committing an act that would be an offence so far, you don't need to worry about the exemptions. You cannot be exempted from an offence you are not committing.

You can have a handgun or long gun at your home, place of business, other land owned or possessed, etc. No mention of loaded or unloaded so loaded is OK.

You can transport between exempted locations, BUT you have to be travelling directly to/from, the firearm must be unloaded and cased, in a securely tied package, or locked in the trunk. This applies equally to handguns and long guns if you don't have the required permits.

Now, how does this apply to truck guns?

Unless you have the unicorn - a permit to carry a handgun - you cannot have a handgun as your truck gun. Ah, let's move on.

If you have an FPIC you can have a shotgun or rifle with you almost anywhere, but it must be unloaded. You can have loaded magazines separate from the gun. The whole story of not keeping loaded mags while travelling was a theory put about by a well known lawyer because there was nothing saying that a loaded mag could not be construed as a loaded gun. The NJSP have since said in writing that loaded magazines are OK to transport so that theory is not put to bed, or so one would hope.

A non-NFA other is neither and handgun or a rifle or shotgun so none of the above applies. As a previous poster stated, it comes down to any other weapon and whether you can show that you had a lawful purpose to be in possession of it. There is no case law as far as I know and no guidance from the AG. (Please don't go and ask him, PLEASE!!!!)

Thank you all for taking the time to answer this. 

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 "directly to or from" the places listed which are places like shooting range, hunting, gunsmith, gun store, gun show etc... 

this is NJ law as I understand it,  if you have a firearm you cannot stop for gas, coffee or pick up a buddy to hunt with as the law is written, and FID required to transport. Welcome to New Jersey.  So the idea of a truck gun just don't fly in NJ. Oh we all may have gone to the 7-11 for a sandwich on a hunting day, but you run the risk of prosecution and loss of property. What you thought the constitution applied? No, not here, remember the law says you cannot defend yourself in nj if the means of escape is available. 

 

you don't want to know what the cost in legal fees would be be you did

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20 minutes ago, BillC. said:

 "directly to or from" the places listed which are places like shooting range, hunting, gunsmith, gun store, gun show etc... 

this is NJ law as I understand it,  if you have a firearm you cannot stop for gas, coffee or pick up a buddy to hunt with as the law is written, and FID required to transport. Welcome to New Jersey.  So the idea of a truck gun just don't fly in NJ. Oh we all may have gone to the 7-11 for a sandwich on a hunting day, but you run the risk of prosecution and loss of property. What you thought the constitution applied? No, not here, remember the law says you cannot defend yourself in nj if the means of escape is available. 

 

you don't want to know what the cost in legal fees would be be you did

This is not at all accurate. 

Do you hunt?

I've taken shotguns to friends houses, slept over for a 3am departure, carpooled to the lake but... stopped for gas, chow, coffee.. returned back to said friends house, spent the afternoon plucking feathers and returned home sometime before dinner. Not a thought went through my head that I wasn't allowed to do this, and we do it almost every other weekend from now until January.

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   Yes I hunt, since 1968, grew up on a farm started (hunting solo) when I was 14, with my dad before that, and a little competition shooting years ago . Also have relatives that are L.E.O. Now I've done the same things that you said in the above post, but things change, and Murphy changed a lot of things we took for granted back then. Used to be all you needed was a hunting licence to transport, not any more. A coworker, older then me was pulled over in the late 1990's during hunting season, no FID in his possession, guns taken, issued a summons (in Hightstown,NJ) now that's 25 years ago. I still have friends that think all you need is a hunting licence. The LEO may not care or look the other way, but the law is what it is. Used to be game wardens were  friendly, now their want a be state troopers looking to issue a many tickets as they can. NJ is NOT hunting or gun friendly anymore.  "directly to or from" means just that. I don't like any more then you do, I can remember being able to mail order guns (pre 1967) and local hardware stores selling them, no papers needed. Not any more

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5 hours ago, BillC. said:

 "directly to or from" the places listed which are places like shooting range, hunting, gunsmith, gun store, gun show etc... 

this is NJ law as I understand it,  if you have a firearm you cannot stop for gas, coffee or pick up a buddy to hunt with as the law is written, and FID required to transport. Welcome to New Jersey.  So the idea of a truck gun just don't fly in NJ. Oh we all may have gone to the 7-11 for a sandwich on a hunting day, but you run the risk of prosecution and loss of property. What you thought the constitution applied? No, not here, remember the law says you cannot defend yourself in nj if the means of escape is available. 

 

you don't want to know what the cost in legal fees would be be you did

This pertains to handguns, not long guns.

If the law has changed please state the new statute.

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On 9/29/2020 at 12:35 PM, GRIZ said:

Easy to do on a pump.  If you're carrying the gun in your trunk have it empty, safety off,  action open, loading gate pushed down.  Drop your first round into the action and close.  You are ready to fire that first shot.  Then load up magazine.

I agree with that approach. The sad part for NJ residents is that in most states you can legally keep your loaded handguns in your vehicle. I have at least one loaded handgun in each of my vehicles. This is in addition to my carry gun.

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19 hours ago, BillC. said:

 "directly to or from" the places listed which are places like shooting range, hunting, gunsmith, gun store, gun show etc... 

this is NJ law as I understand it,  if you have a firearm you cannot stop for gas, coffee or pick up a buddy to hunt with as the law is written, and FID required to transport. Welcome to New Jersey.  So the idea of a truck gun just don't fly in NJ. Oh we all may have gone to the 7-11 for a sandwich on a hunting day, but you run the risk of prosecution and loss of property. What you thought the constitution applied? No, not here, remember the law says you cannot defend yourself in nj if the means of escape is available. 

 

you don't want to know what the cost in legal fees would be be you did

That's incorrect.

Reasonably necessary deviations are allowed.  They include "collecting and discharging passengers; purchasing fuel, food and beverages, medicine, or other supplies; using a restroom; or contending with an emergency situation".

In 2016 Chris Christie had the AG release guidance to provide context around that:

https://www.state.nj.us/oag/dcj/agguide/transporting-firearms_guide.pdf

 

Your examples are covered as reasonable deviations.

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, JC_68Westy said:

I agree with that approach. The sad part for NJ residents is that in most states you can legally keep your loaded handguns in your vehicle. I have at least one loaded handgun in each of my vehicles. This is in addition to my carry gun.

Thanks for helping to get this thread back on track.  There are many discussions on these boards about the legalities of transporting weapons in NJ.  I was trying to make this thread specifically about the tactical considerations of keeping a long gun in the car. 

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It is a shame we have to even discuss this! How many states are like NJ in regards to moving around within the state with either a hand gun or a long gun? Loaded vs. unloaded............ Drove to PA yesterday with two shotguns in the trunk, 200 rounds of ammo right next to them, didn't bother to bring an FID card. Went to Lehigh Sporting Clays to help support the CNJFO and have some fun. Guns were in gun bags, primarily so they wouldn't get scratched. Being in a trunk should suffice for being out of our reach. Wasn't concerned whatsoever.

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10 hours ago, 124gr9mm said:

That's incorrect.

Reasonably necessary deviations are allowed.  They include "collecting and discharging passengers; purchasing fuel, food and beverages, medicine, or other supplies; using a restroom; or contending with an emergency situation".

In 2016 Chris Christie had the AG release guidance to provide context around that:

https://www.state.nj.us/oag/dcj/agguide/transporting-firearms_guide.pdf

 

Your examples are covered as reasonable deviations.

 

 

 

This still only applies to handguns if you have a fpid. 

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6 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

This still only applies to handguns if you have a fpid. 

An FPIC has absolutely no use with regard to handguns except to allow you to buy handgun ammo in NJ. It allows you to possess long guns without having to rely on exemptions and it allows you to purchase long guns.

Unless you have a permit to carry a handgun, you can only transport a handgun under the exemptions. The possession of an FPIC is irrelevant.

For people who don't have an FPIC, do you think they never go to the range?

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11 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

An FPIC has absolutely no use with regard to handguns except to allow you to buy handgun ammo in NJ. It allows you to possess long guns without having to rely on exemptions and it allows you to purchase long guns.

Unless you have a permit to carry a handgun, you can only transport a handgun under the exemptions. The possession of an FPIC is irrelevant.

For people who don't have an FPIC, do you think they never go to the range?

The above mentioned only applies to handguns if you have a fpid.. 

If you don't have an fpid it applies to both handguns and longguns.

This really isn't that hard to understand and this conversation has nothing to do with carrying and transporting handguns. 

YOU DO NOT NEED EXEMPTIONS, IF YOU HAVE A FPID, TO TRANSPORT LONG GUNS. 

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6 minutes ago, JC_68Westy said:

Why does everyone keep responding with interpretations of the law? The OP was asking specifically about the tactical considerations. I believe the intention is to discuss ways of quickly accessing and deploying the gun.

The discussion went down the law tangent because it is pertinent to what is even an option in NJ.

To get back on track, here are some thoughts on tactical aspects.

I do not like the idea of keeping the gun in the trunk because if you find yourself suddenly surrounded by a violent crowd, getting out to access it becomes very risky. Maybe this can be mitigated because some vehicles do have access to the trunk from the passenger compartment, but it is still going to take more time.

I would prefer something I can reach from the driver's seat. One possibility could be a Keltec Sub2K folded and under the driver's seat. Alternatively, if there's room, maybe a bracket of some kind under the dash, above the pedals. Loaded mags could be in the glove box or center console.

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I bought a car paying with cash years ago, it was $20k. I did not like doing it this way, but that's the way the seller wanted to handle it.

So, I had my wife drive, I sat in the back seat with my CX4 carbine is a gun bag, and loaded mags next to me. I was not expecting trouble during the 120 mile drive, but I was just being prepared. If something were to happen it would have taken a few seconds to open that bag, insert a mag, and be ready. Nothing happened which was the best outcome and we got our car!

That being said, having a gun in the trunk is useless if time is of the essence. Having it in a plastic gun case that just needs two flaps opened to have access to it and loaded mags within your reach would be much more useful. Follows the NJ law. Don't know if it is legit to have the loaded mags in with the gun, but you can certainly have them on your seat with you, next to you, in the console, on your dash, somewhere easy to reach!

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Given that we cannot carry loaded firearms unless we possess that 'rainbow unicorn' known as a NJ Carry Permit, we are at a severe tactical disadvantage compared with gun owners in 40-some other states, so the best we can legally do is carry an unloaded long gun in our vehicle pretty much everywhere (assuming you've been issued a FPID card)

I'm going to quote myself from much earlier in this thread:

On 9/28/2020 at 10:55 PM, njJoniGuy said:

If I need my trunk gun in mere seconds, I'm fucked.

If I have a few moments to retrieve and load it, I'm covered.

When the shit comes down, I'd rather have it than not.

 

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5 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

The discussion went down the law tangent because it is pertinent to what is even an option in NJ.

To get back on track, here are some thoughts on tactical aspects.

I do not like the idea of keeping the gun in the trunk because if you find yourself suddenly surrounded by a violent crowd, getting out to access it becomes very risky. Maybe this can be mitigated because some vehicles do have access to the trunk from the passenger compartment, but it is still going to take more time.

I would prefer something I can reach from the driver's seat. One possibility could be a Keltec Sub2K folded and under the driver's seat. Alternatively, if there's room, maybe a bracket of some kind under the dash, above the pedals. Loaded mags could be in the glove box or center console.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gun-Stand-Shotgun-Rifle-Mount-Rack-12V-Santa-Cruz-Large-Gun-lock-With-Key/371748072521?hash=item568de96c49:g:jZIAAOSwJjpbmXej

 i believe this would have it within the law?

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26 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

Nappen has said that it is legal, as long as you've been issued a FPID card, to have an unloaded long gun on the seat next to you. He even said you could legally wave it out the window. Not recommended, but you could.

But with a firearm visible from the outside, you are inviting a stop and roadside interrogation. And the chances are very high that you'll be going for a ride with bracelets on given that most police on the street are not big on roadside negotiations.

IMHO out of sight is better than visible.

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7 hours ago, JC_68Westy said:

Why does everyone keep responding with interpretations of the law? The OP was asking specifically about the tactical considerations. I believe the intention is to discuss ways of quickly accessing and deploying the gun.

Thank you!

7 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

The discussion went down the law tangent because it is pertinent to what is even an option in NJ.

To get back on track, here are some thoughts on tactical aspects.

I do not like the idea of keeping the gun in the trunk because if you find yourself suddenly surrounded by a violent crowd, getting out to access it becomes very risky. Maybe this can be mitigated because some vehicles do have access to the trunk from the passenger compartment, but it is still going to take more time.

I would prefer something I can reach from the driver's seat. One possibility could be a Keltec Sub2K folded and under the driver's seat. Alternatively, if there's room, maybe a bracket of some kind under the dash, above the pedals. Loaded mags could be in the glove box or center console.

Mr. Stu, the above not withstanding, you gave an excellent explanation of the law earlier in this thread.

1 hour ago, njJoniGuy said:

Nappen has said that it is legal, as long as you've been issued a FPID card, to have an unloaded long gun on the seat next to you. He even said you could legally wave it out the window. Not recommended, but you could.

 

I completely agree with your earlier post.  And I have heard Nappen say that you could legally load and use a long gun that you had stored under "exigent circumstances."

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1 hour ago, njJoniGuy said:

Nappen has said that it is legal, as long as you've been issued a FPID card, to have an unloaded long gun on the seat next to you. He even said you could legally wave it out the window. Not recommended, but you could.

ahhhh, these were the days:

truckgunrack.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

1 hour ago, 1LtCAP said:

this could be positioned horizontally, toss a blanket over the rifle....outta site. quickly accessible in a time of need

 

How about this:

s-l1000.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

Or this:

th?id=OIP.NbU_Wv2vlJ_8E2wNUoyROgHaEM%26p

 

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With the discussion of laws aside, it looks like handguns and non-nfa others are off the table for this discussion. Long guns such as rifles and shotguns seems to be the likely candidate. Question I will poss is which long gun would be a likely candidate for you? 

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Two for me:

-My 20" 870 Wingmaster that has been reconfigured to look like my Shockwave's big brother. (Raptor grip, Magpul forend, saddle Picatinny rail, green laser)

-16" AR in A2 config with ACE stock

And enough ammo ...

     -55gr soft point and 62gr penetrator (depending on the target) for the AR

     -00 Buck for the 870

...that if I run dry, I was in deeper shit than I thought.

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