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kc17

Paper P2P going away

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Okay, here is the deal: I went to the local PD this morning to pay for the permits (to think just $6 for 3 permits could be $150 if Murphy gets his way...). Now, the Chief will approve me online and then I will receive an email from the NJSP which includes the instructions and a confirmation number. I will then bring the letter and the confirmation number to a dealer and they will go online and be able to look at my permits. I can only hope my dealer (RTSP) is on the same page about this.

I asked 1) if I could look at the permits by going online and using the confirmation number; 2) what would be the procedure for an extension. The local PD didn't have answers to either of these questions. The process seemed to be too new to them and they are still in the learning curve. 

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I was at a FFL at the end of Sept and the topic came up with another customer. The FFL said he had already received training on the system and had positive feelings about it. He said there was a way for us to see what permits we had as well.

I did not ask, but will need to find out at some point, how an immediate family member transfer (not using a FFL) happens now, or does this new system kill that; even though I'd think that Legislature would require that change.

I will be selling one of my handguns to my brother once he gets his FID & permit. My understanding with the paper permits was we filled it out, kept one copy each and one copy went to the State.

 

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29 minutes ago, kc17 said:

I was at a FFL at the end of Sept and the topic came up with another customer. The FFL said he had already received training on the system and had positive feelings about it. He said there was a way for us to see what permits we had as well.

 

 

This is reassuring. :good:

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On 10/14/2020 at 11:08 AM, kc17 said:

I was at a FFL at the end of Sept and the topic came up with another customer. The FFL said he had already received training on the system and had positive feelings about it. He said there was a way for us to see what permits we had as well.

I did not ask, but will need to find out at some point, how an immediate family member transfer (not using a FFL) happens now, or does this new system kill that; even though I'd think that Legislature would require that change.

I will be selling one of my handguns to my brother once he gets his FID & permit. My understanding with the paper permits was we filled it out, kept one copy each and one copy went to the State.

 

There is a way to do non FFL transfers with E permits through FARS for qualified transactions. I didn't look into how it's done since that wouldn't involve me.

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On 10/13/2020 at 3:25 PM, dajonga said:

I work at a NJ FFL and I have not rec'd any information about the new system. As soon as I get any info or see one of these E-permits, I will let y'all know.

The FIU sent out emails explaining how the system will work from the dealer side with step by step instructions on how to do the E permits and E exemptions.

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I just got the approval email from the NJSP. Here is what it says:

Confirmation Number: XXXXXXXXX
SBI Number: XXXXXX
Issuing Police Department: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Contact Phone for Issuing Police Department: XXXXXXXXXX
Status Update: Approved
 
 
Your application for a New Jersey Firearm Purchaser Identification Card and/or Permit to Purchase a Handgun(s) has been approved by the issuing authority.
 
Your electronic permits are now available for execution. Please note that the Issuing Authority will no longer have these available in paper form.
Number of Active Permits Available: 3
Expiry Date: 01/12/2021
 
All permits require a NICS Check to be conducted by NJ Licensed Firearms Dealership, with the following exceptions:
  • Transfer/sale between Law Enforcement Officer
  • Transfer/Sale between Immediate Family Members
  • Transfer/Sale with Licensed Curio/Relic Dealer
In these exceptional conditions, the Private Seller can execute the permit at following website:
If you have any further questions about the pick-up of your card/permit please contact your issuing police department.
 
There is nothing about permit extension. I hope the local PD will know what to do by the time it gets closer to the expiry date. It has taken 11 days including a weekend from the beginning to the end. Not bad.
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OK, so the next opportunity to confirm that is when you exercise the e-permit at your FFL. You should look at the screen with them and note whether there's even a place to indicate the permit is extended. And if there is, is it blank?

If they implemented this without extending the permits when they're issued it's a significant step backward for those who were getting their permits through NJSP. IMO.

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17 minutes ago, 45Doll said:

OK, so the next opportunity to confirm that is when you exercise the e-permit at your FFL. You should look at the screen with them and note whether there's even a place to indicate the permit is extended. And if there is, is it blank?

If they implemented this without extending the permits when they're issued it's a significant step backward for those who were getting their permits through NJSP. IMO.

I'm afraid it will be awhile until I can exercise my E-permits. I'm intending to go to my dealer (RTSP) tomorrow morning but I'm pretty sure they don't have the guns I want in stock. I will place an order tomorrow but God knows how long it will take for the guns to get in...

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6 minutes ago, May20 said:

I'm afraid it will be awhile until I can exercise my E-permits. I'm intending to go to my dealer (RTSP) tomorrow morning but I'm pretty sure they don't have the guns I want in stock. I will place an order tomorrow but God knows how long it will take for the guns to get in...

Remember to bring your FID card to RTSP. They won't accept just the pistol permit.

Also, if you have a specific handgun in mind I'd go to Gun Broker and see what's available. If you find what you're looking for and the price is not completely outrageous I'd think seriously about going that rout. You're in New Jermany and have all kinds of time constraints both inbound and outbound.

There's also no guarantee what you order will arrive at all, in time.

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9 minutes ago, 45Doll said:

Remember to bring your FID card to RTSP. They won't accept just the pistol permit.

Also, if you have a specific handgun in mind I'd go to Gun Broker and see what's available. If you find what you're looking for and the price is not completely outrageous I'd think seriously about going that rout. You're in New Jermany and have all kinds of time constraints both inbound and outbound.

There's also no guarantee what you order will arrive at all, in time.

Gun Broker? Is it a type of business or a specific enterprise? Can you share a link?

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3 minutes ago, May20 said:

Gun Broker? Is it a type of business or a specific enterprise? Can you share a link?

Online auction house. Historically many listings also have 'buy now' pricing as well, although now that may be less common if the vendors want to see the selling price run up.

https://www.gunbroker.com/

Many have purchased through them. Including me.

Of course you can search online vendors for what you want as well, and buy from them if the price suits you. You'll pay shipping and a transfer fee in NJ, but if you find what you want you know you'll get it. Money vs. certainty.

https://grabagun.com/       https://www.budsgunshop.com/         https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/

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Just now, 45Doll said:

Online auction house. Historically many listings also have 'buy now' pricing as well, although now that may be less common if the vendors want to see the selling price run up.

https://www.gunbroker.com/

Many have purchased through them. Including me.

Of course you can search online vendors for what you want as well, and buy from them if the price suits you. You'll pay shipping and a transfer fee in NJ, but if you find what you want you know you'll get it. Money vs. certainty.

https://grabagun.com/       https://www.budsgunshop.com/         https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/

Thanks! I'll look into these.

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6 minutes ago, May20 said:

Thanks! I'll look into these.

Here's my hint.

Find the manufacturer's MPN number for the specific firearm(s) you want and search on that. There's lot's of FFLs in the country that post their inventory for sale online. For example: UG1750201MOS

That's a Glock 17 Gen 4 MOS and there's lots of search hits on it. Of course some hits will show "out of stock'. But all you need is one that doesn't. :D

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I have new and totally reliable information as of this morning.

The intention with the FARS e-permits, at least those obtained through the NJSP, was to have them initially authorized for 180 days. That is apparently not yet happening, but it's being looked into. That's why there's no procedure for online extension. The e-permits I've seen were definitely issued for 90 days.

It is not clear whether that same intention holds true for e-permits issued by local PDs. That is also being checked out. I will post up again when I get the clarifications.

Two other interesting tidbits. The FARS system 'melted down' for the first five days of operation, and many users couldn't access it at all. Quelle surprise!

Second, for all of last year a particular NJSP barracks processed around 500 applications. As of right now for this year the number is over 1,700.

No wonder there's a gun shortage!

More later.

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It will be nice if the new system speeds things up some. Timeline (and minor rant) of my most recent P2P application, going through the NJSP.

Applied & references responded on Aug 8. Email that I was approved on Sept 8, which is record time. Typically I get the phone call to pick them up 7-10 days later. Oct 8 I called the Barracks, and am told to "give it a couple of more days". On Oct 15 I email the Investigation Unit (they no longer list a phone number for the plebes to use).

After no response to the email I call the Barracks again today. After two transfers and one brief hold I'm told my permits are not in the file they would/should be in if they were there. At first he tells me to give it another week or two. When I repeated that it's been roughly 6 weeks since my approval and I typically get the call 7-10 days later he comments "you do this often?" He then says the Sgt that does this "Administrative stuff" is out, then says, wait, let me check again. Puts me on hold, about 10 min later comes back "are you there Ma'am" I respond "I'm still here" he says "O, hold on" and never comes back I hung up about 15-20 min later. Total phone call was just over 35 min.

I send another email to the Investigation Unit; that one gets a response in just under an hour. The exact response:

Sir,


I inquired on the status of your application, your application has been approved and your documents are in the queue to be printed.  They will be printed either today or tomorrow and will mailed to NJSP Hamilton.  The station will call and advise when they are ready for pickup approx. 10 business days.

If this proves true, it will have taken the NJSP two months to print and distribute permits. It will be interesting to see the issue date once I get them. One set of permits were dated two weeks before I got the phone call to pick them up, that was pre-FARS. I will add, no name given in the email (sent from generic address); and anytime I call a Barracks, they rattle the name so quickly and muffled that you can not understand it; asking them to repeat for clarity is futile.

I'm just glad these are my "Just in case" permits, I've got nothing on hold/waiting and am in one-gun-a-month purgatory anyway.

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4 minutes ago, kc17 said:

I inquired on the status of your application, your application has been approved and your documents are in the queue to be printed.  They will be printed either today or tomorrow and will mailed to NJSP Hamilton.  The station will call and advise when they are ready for pickup approx. 10 business days.

Yes, before 10/1 all the permits were still paper. And the people at the firearms unit responsible for printing were deemed 'non-essential workers' and were working from home. The paper printing jam was monstrous, resulting in the enormous delays.

I assume that is all still true for all applications in the pipe before 10/1.

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Just now, 45Doll said:

Yes, before 10/1 all the permits were still paper. And the people at the firearms unit responsible for printing were deemed 'non-essential workers' and were working from home. The paper printing jam was monstrous, resulting in the enormous delays.

I was aware that only applications begun on or after 10/1 were to be the e-permits. I was not aware the unit responsible for printing were working from home, did they take the printers home with them? Or is it the deal where x number of people are allowed in the office on z days for w hours but only when the moon was in the correct phase?

(Please do not take my sarcasm as criticism towards you, I appreciate the info).

Additional craziness.. I applied for permits back in mid-March and picked them up mid-April, just under two weeks after the approval email.

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1 minute ago, kc17 said:

I was aware that only applications begun on or after 10/1 were to be the e-permits. I was not aware the unit responsible for printing were working from home, did they take the printers home with them? Or is it the deal where x number of people are allowed in the office on z days for w hours but only when the moon was in the correct phase?

(Please do not take my sarcasm as criticism towards you, I appreciate the info).

Additional craziness.. I applied for permits back in mid-March and picked them up mid-April, just under two weeks after the approval email.

None taken. I don't know the specifics of the home based process. Only that it caused HUGE delays in permit delivery. As one would expect.

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On 10/13/2020 at 8:19 PM, dilbert1967 said:

My permits are handled by a State Police barracks.  I've been told, time and again, that the holdup is at the Firearms Investigation Unit at State Police HQ in West Trenton, not at the barracks.  Before FARS, I would wait 5 1/2 months for permits.  With FARS, its 3 1/2 months.  The E permits should cut out the time the paper permit sits in West Trenton waiting for someone at the barracks to pick it up.  Could be one or two days or as long as ten days.  Then the barracks commander has to sign them.  And that could take a few days as well.

The barracks commander does not sign the permits. The signature is printed on by the same printer that does all the other details. Actually, because they come form Trenton already extended, both signatures are printed on in Trenton.

The reason NJSP permits are delayed is because they get lost in the pony express delivery system for weeks. The FIU is rarely the hold up. I have had cause to speak with them several times on different matters and they have always been very responsive and helpful.

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11 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

The barracks commander does not sign the permits. The signature is printed on by the same printer that does all the other details. Actually, because they come form Trenton already extended, both signatures are printed on in Trenton.

The reason NJSP permits are delayed is because they get lost in the pony express delivery system for weeks. The FIU is rarely the hold up. I have had cause to speak with them several times on different matters and they have always been very responsive and helpful.

OK, I agree partially. Yes, both signatures are printed in Trenton and not signed at the barracks.

And yes, the pony express system is historically terrible. But I'm not sure it ever accounted for 'weeks' of delay. 

And yes, my interactions with the FIU have always been courteous and helpful.

But since COVID the printing process went into the toilet. Right now permits are being delivered that were authorized at the end of JUNE.

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2 minutes ago, 45Doll said:

OK, I agree partially. Yes, both signatures are printed in Trenton and not signed at the barracks.

And yes, the pony express system is historically terrible. But I'm not sure it ever accounted for 'weeks' of delay. 

And yes, my interactions with the FIU have always been courteous and helpful.

But since COVID the printing process went into the toilet. Right now permits are being delivered that were authorized at the end of JUNE.

I am sure there are many variations in people's experiences. When I was in the Augusta barracks area things were very good. Sgt. Hollar didn't put up with any silliness.

Since I move to the Washington barracks area things have not gone so well. My change of address FPIC and set of permits had not arrived after 2 months. I started calling around. Washington had not seen them. FIU has printed and sent them and gave me the date that it happened. I called all the intervening barracks working back from Washington asking where their mail came from and found that nobody knew where my permits were - or any mail for Washington at that point in time. The box is empty I was told by each barracks I called.

I spoke to one of the ladies in the FIU when it got to 2 months overdue and she offered to reprint the permits and send them via USPS directly to Washington. This happened and I had the permits within a week and used one the next day.

A month after I used that permit I got a call from the Washington barracks to let me know my permits were in. These were the original copies of the duplicates I already had in hand. That made it 3 months lost in the pony express. YMMV.

Roll on 12 months and I put in for another set of permits and an exemption. The same thing happened again minus the last phone call to let me know my original permits were ready for pickup.

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15 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

I am sure there are many variations in people's experiences. When I was in the Augusta barracks area things were very good. Sgt. Hollar didn't put up with any silliness.

Since I move to the Washington barracks area things have not gone so well. My change of address FPIC and set of permits had not arrived after 2 months. I started calling around. Washington had not seen them. FIU has printed and sent them and gave me the date that it happened. I called all the intervening barracks working back from Washington asking where their mail came from and found that nobody knew where my permits were - or any mail for Washington at that point in time. The box is empty I was told by each barracks I called.

I spoke to one of the ladies in the FIU when it got to 2 months overdue and she offered to reprint the permits and send them via USPS directly to Washington. This happened and I had the permits within a week and used one the next day.

A month after I used that permit I got a call from the Washington barracks to let me know my permits were in. These were the original copies of the duplicates I already had in hand. That made it 3 months lost in the pony express. YMMV.

Roll on 12 months and I put in for another set of permits and an exemption. The same thing happened again minus the last phone call to let me know my original permits were ready for pickup.

Yes there are wide variances between barracks, and agree; your mileage may vary!

And Sgt. Hollar at Augusta is excellent. No delay in that pipe. Sorry for your degraded experience.

And last but not least, aren't exemptions wonderful? :diablo:

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Back on July 2 I requested an address change on my Firearms ID Card. It finial approved Sept 9 2months later. 31 days later NJSP Buena barracks called me that the card was ready for pickup. So total time 3 months to get just an address change. Sad part it took 1 month to receive the card once approved. The SGT and the trooper dealing with firearms permits etc. were very pleasant and helpful, but the problem is with Trenton that  should be of no surprise.

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I spoke with FIU, the permits are issued for 90 days and will automatically extend for another 90. The only way it will not is if the chief goes into each permit and manually stops the extension. 

Also, there is a lot of information about the epermits on https://njsp.org/firearms/forms.shtml

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