njJoniGuy 2,129 Posted December 23, 2020 Two more knucklehead assholes added to the ignore list. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted December 23, 2020 Too many people look for the law to tell them what they can do. That's not the purpose of law. Law is supposed to tell you what YOU CAN'T DO. You can't steal, you can't murder, etc. If you look at the law Federally and in most states no one tells you "it is legal to use hollow points in self defense in the home". Law is not there to tell you what you can do. If you lawfully shoot an intruder with a hollow point in your home there is no law that says you can't and no law that says you can. An "aggressive prosecutor" cannot make up a law that says you were wrong. If you hit an intruder with your legally possessed baseball bat in your living room who was going to kill you a prosecutor can't go after you. 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CMJeepster 2,766 Posted December 23, 2020 8 hours ago, GRIZ said: If you hit an intruder with your legally possessed baseball bat in your living room who was going to kill you a prosecutor can't go after you. Wood or aluminum? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted December 23, 2020 1 hour ago, CMJeepster said: Wood or aluminum? Even a whiffle ball bat!!! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CMJeepster 2,766 Posted December 23, 2020 3 hours ago, GRIZ said: Even a whiffle ball bat!!! The Glock of the bat world! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dilbert1967 145 Posted December 24, 2020 11 hours ago, CMJeepster said: Wood or aluminum? Aluminum. You won't have to worry about breaking the bat. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SgtToadette 59 Posted December 24, 2020 If you shoot someone with a HP round, they are then in possession of it so there's nothing for you to worry about. 1 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Stu 1,884 Posted December 24, 2020 13 hours ago, SgtToadette said: If you shoot someone with a HP round, they are then in possession of it so there's nothing for you to worry about. If it worked correctly, it isn't hollow any more either. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bt Doctur 188 Posted January 12, 2021 Your only in trouble if you report it, Drag the body into the street then report a body in the street, case closed Shoot, Shovel and Forget 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fslater 62 Posted January 31, 2021 On 12/22/2020 at 12:18 PM, Pizza Bob said: The point is that if it is legal to possess in the home (it is), it is legal to use it for defensive purposes in the home. I've read the whole firearms statute more than once and seen nothing that says its not. It only addresses possession and transport.... Ironically if someone were to use it outside the home, I don't recall seeing anything in the statute that he could be additionally charged with (besides the shooting itself), only the possession. Like I said, the statute ONLY addresses possession. If there's no written law addressing usage what can they charge you with in regard to using it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bt Doctur 188 Posted February 15, 2021 You continue firing until the threat is neutralized, period Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
15636215 454 Posted February 15, 2021 Whatever is in my 12 ga pump!!!!!!!!!!!! WORKS! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raz-0 1,256 Posted February 15, 2021 On 12/22/2020 at 2:08 PM, EdF said: https://www.njsp.org/firearms/transport-hollowpoint.shtml "Thus a person may purchase this ammunition and keep it within the confines of his property. Sub section f (1) further exempts from the prohibited possession of hollow nose ammunition "persons engaged in activities pursuant to N.J.S.A 2C:39-6f. . . ." N.J.S.A 26:39-3f." "Activities contained in N.J.S.A 26:39-6f. can be broken down as follows: A member of a rifle or pistol club organized under rules of the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and which filed its charter with the State Police; A person engaged in hunting or target practice with a firearm legal for hunting in this State; A person going directly to a target range, and; A person going directly to an authorized place for "practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions." I've argued elsewhere that hollow points are not legal for home defense. Others were rather heated on the point that "if you are allowed to posses them, you are allowed to use them." I would differ since 26:39-6f lists for match, range and hunting. I'm not getting into an argument, again . . . This is how it was explained by an intructor and I have plenty of Hornady for my 9mm and .38Spcl. If I have to drag the AR-15 into the mix, all bets are off anyway. You can't be charged for something that isn't stated in a statute. The statute is about possession, not use. It just happens that some use cases make additional exceptions to the prohibition on possession. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted February 15, 2021 41 minutes ago, raz-0 said: You can't be charged for something that isn't stated in a statute. The statute is about possession, not use. It just happens that some use cases make additional exceptions to the prohibition on possession. What kind of arguments do you expect from someone citing the njsp website? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FDHog 604 Posted February 15, 2021 Just use Hornady Critical Duty or Critical Defense. Not subjected to hollow point regs and just as effective. From the New Jersey State Police FAQs 13. Question: I’m not a police officer, are hollow points legal for me to possess? Answer: Yes. They are legal for purchase and possess in your home or on land owned by you. They are legal to possess and use at a gun range. They are also legal to possess while traveling to and from such places. Ammunition lacking a hollow cavity at the tip, such as those with a polymer filling, are not considered to be hollow point ammunition. An example of this can be seen with the Hornady Critical Defense / Critical Duty, Cor-Bon PowRball / Glaser Safety Slug and Nosler Inc. Defense ammunition. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EdF 323 Posted February 15, 2021 Pretty much the same advice that I gave but what the fuck do I know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FDHog 604 Posted February 15, 2021 8 minutes ago, EdF said: Pretty much the same advice that I gave but what the fuck do I know. It's useless to argue this. Critical Duty and Defense are legal to carry (if you can) and use for self defense. If you want to use anything else, it's on you. Simple! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EdF 323 Posted February 15, 2021 1 hour ago, FDHog said: Critical Duty and Defense are legal to carry (if you can) and use for self defense. That's what's load in my HD weapons . . . I have dedicated mags that I don't even both to take to the range. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FDHog 604 Posted February 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, EdF said: That's what's load in my HD weapons . . . I have dedicated mags that I don't even both to take to the range. Same here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JimB1 554 Posted February 16, 2021 On 12/22/2020 at 3:10 PM, Mr.Stu said: It attaches conditions to possession when you are not in an exempt location such as your home. You surely do not think you need to be actively doing one of these things while possessing hollowpoints at home? Please! Efficiency has little to do with it. Overpenetration is a serious consideration, especially with 9mm ball ammo. Therefore, potentially yes, there is more of a risk of damage done to anybody the bullet hits after it exits the intended target - bear in mind the trajectory will probably change while it is in that target so it's not just anybody directly behind the bad guy. Notwithstanding, we operate under too many illogical and draconian rules in NJ already. We do not need anybody imagining new ones and spreading them around as if they were true. I would still really like to know where this idea originated. It is not in the statutes. It is not in the Admin Code. It is not in the briefing Juries are given in self defense cases. If the only identified source is what some guy who passed the (frankly ridiculously easy) NRA Instructors class once said, it has to be classified as uncorroborated rumor at best. I prefer to do a bit of research rather than believe every word I hear from some guy at the range, or a cop, or the guy behind the counter at the gun store, etc. I can actually tell you where this came from, point 13 on this page on the state police website https://www.nj.gov/njsp/firearms/firearms-faqs.shtml Previously they mentioned that those types listed were legal for home defense but they don’t say that now, just that the ones listed aren’t hollow points by the State police standards. Doesn’t mean the Judiciary won’t though... as we see with the security guard recently charged for having critical duty in his work gun. -Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted February 16, 2021 3 hours ago, FDHog said: It's useless to argue this. Critical Duty and Defense are legal to carry (if you can) and use for self defense. If you want to use anything else, it's on you. Simple! They're still dumdum rounds, and regulated all the same as hollow points. This is why you dont listen to the NJSP. If its a bullet designed to expand its regulated to possession in certain locations.. ie allowed by exemption. Doesnt matter if the tip is filled with a polymer by NJ statute becuaaw they very clearly use the term "dumdum". Since there is zero language about use, the premise is simple. You can use them where they are legal to possess. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,289 Posted February 16, 2021 Use whatever damn hollow point, dumdum ammo you want in your home.....I don't give two shits what the PRNJ says, I will use the most effective ammo I can get my hands on to protect my family! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smith 3 Posted February 16, 2021 More importantly .. in this forum, how many people used any weapon in last 30 years for self defense in home? Yes we could say hypothetically and now sky is limit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,289 Posted February 16, 2021 I may be the first....Who knows! I will still use what I want.....Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted February 16, 2021 10 hours ago, Smith said: More importantly .. in this forum, how many people used any weapon in last 30 years for self defense in home? Yes we could say hypothetically and now sky is limit. Huh? Does the motto, "always be prepared" strike a chord? By that standard who even needs a gun? People who are informed and prepared wont be caught with their pants down, and most likely best positioned to protect their home/family during and after any events. I wouldnt be shooting ball ammunition in my home of any caliber. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smith 3 Posted February 16, 2021 33 minutes ago, JackDaWack said: Huh? Does the motto, "always be prepared" strike a chord? By that standard who even needs a gun? People who are informed and prepared wont be caught with their pants down, and most likely best positioned to protect their home/family during and after any events. I wouldnt be shooting ball ammunition in my home of any caliber. Yes. I agree with you for being ready. However, you tell me being ready for what scale operation? There are multiple scenarios... 1) Home intruders... 2) Feud with LEA (any one police, FBI...) 3) executive branch collapse and army rebels 4) Russian/Chinese/Iran army invade 5) alien invasion .... .... Anyone would be out numbered anything other than number one. If you are talking about one this is paranoid. Don’t need millions of round. If any other scenario millions of rounds are not helpful. so let’s say what do we want to be ready for? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted February 16, 2021 15 minutes ago, Smith said: Yes. I agree with you for being ready. However, you tell me being ready for what scale operation? There are multiple scenarios... 1) Home intruders... 2) Feud with LEA (any one police, FBI...) 3) executive branch collapse and army rebels 4) Russian/Chinese/Iran army invade 5) alien invasion .... .... Anyone would be out numbered anything other than number one. If you are talking about one this is paranoid. Don’t need millions of round. If any other scenario millions of rounds are not helpful. so let’s say what do we want to be ready for? I thought we were talking about hollow points for self defense in the home? In which case I would use them for all of the above, or alternatively polymer tipped. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,289 Posted February 16, 2021 I do like the thought of number 3. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
siderman 1,134 Posted February 16, 2021 HP's for home defense. Green tips for the others 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sniper 6,372 Posted February 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Smith said: so let’s say what do we want to be ready for? You forgot Zombies and Mad Max. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites