Jump to content
Cheflife15

Legal self defense ammo in the home

Recommended Posts

Too many people look for the law to tell them what they can do.  That's not the purpose of law.  Law is supposed to tell you what YOU CAN'T DO.  You can't steal, you can't murder, etc.  

If you look at the law Federally and in most states no one tells you "it is legal to use hollow points in self defense in the home".

Law is not there to tell you what you can do.

If you lawfully shoot an intruder with a hollow point in your home there is no law that says you can't and no law that says you can.  An "aggressive prosecutor"  cannot make up a law that says you were wrong.  

If you hit an intruder with your legally possessed baseball bat in your living room who was going to kill you a prosecutor can't go after you.

  • Like 2
  • Informative 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/22/2020 at 12:18 PM, Pizza Bob said:

The point is that if it is legal to possess in the home (it is), it is legal to use it for defensive purposes in the home.

I've read the whole firearms statute more than once and seen nothing that says its not.

It only addresses possession and transport.... Ironically if someone were to use it outside the home, I don't recall seeing anything in the statute that he could be additionally charged with (besides the shooting itself), only the possession. Like I said, the statute ONLY addresses possession. If there's no written law addressing usage what can they charge you with in regard to using it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/22/2020 at 2:08 PM, EdF said:

https://www.njsp.org/firearms/transport-hollowpoint.shtml

"Thus a person may purchase this ammunition and keep it within the confines of his property. Sub section f (1) further exempts from the prohibited possession of hollow nose ammunition "persons engaged in activities pursuant to N.J.S.A 2C:39-6f. . . ."
N.J.S.A 26:39-3f."

"Activities contained in N.J.S.A 26:39-6f. can be broken down as follows:

  1. A member of a rifle or pistol club organized under rules of the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and which filed its charter with the State Police;
  2. A person engaged in hunting or target practice with a firearm legal for hunting in this State;
  3. A person going directly to a target range, and;
  4. A person going directly to an authorized place for "practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions."

I've argued elsewhere that hollow points are not legal for home defense.  Others were rather heated on the point that "if you are allowed to posses them, you are allowed to use them."  I would differ since 26:39-6f lists for match, range and hunting.

I'm not getting into an argument, again . . . This is how it was explained by an intructor and I have plenty of Hornady for my 9mm and .38Spcl.  If I have to drag the AR-15 into the mix, all bets are off anyway.

You can't be charged for something that isn't stated in a statute. The statute is about possession, not use. It just happens that some use cases make additional exceptions to the prohibition on possession. 

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, raz-0 said:

You can't be charged for something that isn't stated in a statute. The statute is about possession, not use. It just happens that some use cases make additional exceptions to the prohibition on possession. 

What kind of arguments do you expect from someone citing the njsp website?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just use Hornady Critical Duty or Critical Defense. Not subjected to hollow point regs and just as effective.

From the New Jersey State Police FAQs
13. Question: I’m not a police officer, are hollow points legal for me to possess?

Answer: Yes. They are legal for purchase and possess in your home or on land owned by you. They are legal to possess and use at a gun range. They are also legal to possess while traveling to and from such places. Ammunition lacking a hollow cavity at the tip, such as those with a polymer filling, are not considered to be hollow point ammunition. An example of this can be seen with the Hornady Critical Defense / Critical Duty, Cor-Bon PowRball / Glaser Safety Slug and Nosler Inc. Defense ammunition.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, EdF said:

Pretty much the same advice that I gave but what the fuck do I know.

 

It's useless to argue this. Critical Duty and Defense are legal to carry (if you can) and use for self defense.

If you want to use anything else, it's on you. Simple!

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FDHog said:

Critical Duty and Defense are legal to carry (if you can) and use for self defense.

That's what's load in my HD weapons . . . I have dedicated mags that I don't even both to take to the range.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/22/2020 at 3:10 PM, Mr.Stu said:

It attaches conditions to possession when you are not in an exempt location such as your home. You surely do not think you need to be actively doing one of these things while possessing hollowpoints at home? Please!

Efficiency has little to do with it. Overpenetration is a serious consideration, especially with 9mm ball ammo. Therefore, potentially yes, there is more of a risk of damage done to anybody the bullet hits after it exits the intended target - bear in mind the trajectory will probably change while it is in that target so it's not just anybody directly behind the bad guy.

Notwithstanding, we operate under too many illogical and draconian rules in NJ already. We do not need anybody imagining new ones and spreading them around as if they were true.

I would still really like to know where this idea originated. It is not in the statutes. It is not in the Admin Code. It is not in the briefing Juries are given in self defense cases. If the only identified source is what some guy who passed the (frankly ridiculously easy) NRA Instructors class once said, it has to be classified as uncorroborated rumor at best. I prefer to do a bit of research rather than believe every word I hear from some guy at the range, or a cop, or the guy behind the counter at the gun store, etc.

I can actually tell you where this came from, point 13 on this page on the state police website

https://www.nj.gov/njsp/firearms/firearms-faqs.shtml

Previously they mentioned that those types listed were legal for home defense but they don’t say that now, just that the ones listed aren’t hollow points by the State police standards. Doesn’t mean the Judiciary won’t though... as we see with the security guard recently charged for having critical duty in his work gun.

-Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, FDHog said:

It's useless to argue this. Critical Duty and Defense are legal to carry (if you can) and use for self defense.

If you want to use anything else, it's on you. Simple!

They're still dumdum rounds, and regulated all the same as hollow points. 

This is why you dont listen to the NJSP.

If its a bullet designed to expand its regulated to possession in certain locations.. ie allowed by exemption. Doesnt matter if the tip is filled with a polymer by NJ statute becuaaw they very clearly use the term "dumdum".

Since there is zero language about use, the premise is simple. You can use them where they are legal to possess. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Smith said:

More importantly .. in this forum, how many people used any weapon in last 30 years for self defense in home? Yes we could say hypothetically and now sky is limit. 

Huh? 

Does the motto, "always be prepared" strike a chord? By that standard who even needs a gun? 

People who are informed and prepared wont be caught with their pants down, and most likely best positioned to protect their home/family during and after any events. 

I wouldnt be shooting ball ammunition in my home of any caliber. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

Huh? 

Does the motto, "always be prepared" strike a chord? By that standard who even needs a gun? 

People who are informed and prepared wont be caught with their pants down, and most likely best positioned to protect their home/family during and after any events. 

I wouldnt be shooting ball ammunition in my home of any caliber. 

Yes. I agree with you for being ready. However, you tell me being ready for what scale operation? There are multiple scenarios...

1) Home intruders...

2) Feud with LEA (any one police, FBI...)

3) executive branch collapse and army rebels

4) Russian/Chinese/Iran army invade

5) alien invasion 

....

....

Anyone would be out numbered anything other than number one. If you are talking about one this is paranoid. Don’t need millions of round. If any other scenario millions of rounds are not helpful.

so let’s say what do we want to be ready for?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Smith said:

Yes. I agree with you for being ready. However, you tell me being ready for what scale operation? There are multiple scenarios...

1) Home intruders...

2) Feud with LEA (any one police, FBI...)

3) executive branch collapse and army rebels

4) Russian/Chinese/Iran army invade

5) alien invasion 

....

....

Anyone would be out numbered anything other than number one. If you are talking about one this is paranoid. Don’t need millions of round. If any other scenario millions of rounds are not helpful.

so let’s say what do we want to be ready for?

I thought we were talking about hollow points for self defense in the home? 

In which case I would use them for all of the above, or alternatively polymer tipped. 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...