Law Tactical Folding Adapter

[winmag45 7]

Wondering if  these are ok to put on a NJ 'Other" firearm?You can't shoot the gun with it folded.I would think that it would be the same  as the Keltec Sub2000 which is ok in NJ because it won't fire folded.

https://www.lawtactical.com/ar_folding_stock_adapter_gen_3_m_p/99312.htm

 

[Mr.Stu 574]

I don't know the answer to your question, but your premise about the Sub2k is not correct. The Sub2k does not have a folding stock at all. It folds at the breech far forward of the stock and in front of the trigger too.

[PK90 3,380]

IIRC, you can fire one round with it folded.

But, the non-NFA AR need not comply with the NJAWB.

[winmag45 7]

I stand corrected about the Keltec thank you.

[Scorpio64 3,422]

7 hours ago, PK90 said:

IIRC, you can fire one round with it folded.

I wonder, what would be more interesting.  The low muzzle velocity of the bullet, or the velocity of the BCG getting shat out of the upper.   Can it really be called firing a round under those conditions?

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EDIT:  Looks like the Gen3 does have the ability to fire one shot.

From a gun digest write up.

Quote

The Gen3 FSA allows an AR to be fired while the stock is folded. This appears to be nifty modification, but it does have its limitations. The system only allows one round to be fired and does not cycle the firearm. But if the situation calls for it, the ability to get one round off is better than getting off none.

Law Tactical incorporated this feature in direct response to consumer demand, according to an article at the Military Time’s Gear Scout. But even with the ability to fire a rifle with the stock folded, the company still advises against it.

Talk about mixed messages.

 

[JackDaWack 2,418]

Only thing that matters is what the ATF will do when measuring the 26"

[winmag45 7]

Well I believe they measure when the gun is in the firing position.If it can fire one round then I don't know how they would consider that.

[JackDaWack 2,418]

30 minutes ago, winmag45 said:

Well I believe they measure when the gun is in the firing position.If it can fire one round then I don't know how they would consider that.

Exactly, I wouldnt use it.. or find a version that doesn't fire when folded. 

[El Jefe 28]

I had some experience shooting a folding stock rifle on an AK platform derivative. Trying to shoot it without holding the forward grip is a waste of time, and you sure can't shoulder it unless you want that hinge to make a hole in your shoulder.

So while it looks really cool and folds shorter then a pistol brave, I'll keep my Non NFA with a brace. And in a case of emergency I can shoulder it and get the first bullet where it needs to go, which is all that matters

[Screwball 482]

For the original question... no, you can’t put it on your other firearm.

OAL is important, and must be over 26”. ATF changed their view, and the measurement is not done with braces unfolded... which is the opposite of how long guns are measured. What also put the death nail in the Black Aces DT, as was folders on TAC-14/Shockwave firearms. The folding setup would put OAL well under 26”. 

If you install it on your firearm, it will either make it a pistol (illegal) or an AOW, if you leave on the foregrip.

[winmag45 7]

I figure it was too good to be true.Just thought it would be nice to make it more compact for travel.I like to drive out west or down south for vacations and with everything going on I've  been thinking of bringing more than just a pistol.Looks like plan "B" a takedown lever action.Although I think a few people make an AR quick realease barrel system out there might look into that.

[Screwball 482]

I was looking at it for my truck gun... but not a fan of it firing folded... then having to cycle the action once the brace is deployed. The tail that fits in the bolt isn’t that nice to have to deal with (extra complexity when taking the gun down). I also don’t keep it with a round in the chamber. I guess CBP is running off on me... been stowing it in hot standby (hammer down, on fire, loaded magazine inserted). I confirmed zero today since I just got my upper back... and did it instinctively. I’ve been doing upkeep on our M4s at the port, so do it to each rifle every other month.

Besides, my AR pistol is damn near close to 26”... I think maybe 1/8” short... and it is pretty compact as it sits. It might be more compact folded, but so was my PSA AK-P. Firing it like that guy with the plated AK underfolder in that movie 13 Hours isn’t too effective. Yes, you can send rounds downrange... but not going to be as accurate as if you utilized the brace.

If I do a folding pistol... I’ll probably do the BRN-180S and then I don’t necessarily need to do the buffer tube. Fill the hole with a 1913 adapter, and can use a lighter setup.

[Mr.Stu 574]

20 hours ago, Screwball said:

I was looking at it for my truck gun... but not a fan of it firing folded... then having to cycle the action once the brace is deployed. The tail that fits in the bolt isn’t that nice to have to deal with (extra complexity when taking the gun down). I also don’t keep it with a round in the chamber. I guess CBP is running off on me... been stowing it in hot standby (hammer down, on fire, loaded magazine inserted).

This leaves me confused. You don't like the idea of having to rack the charging handle if you fire a shot before you unfold the brace but then you say you keep your truck gun with an empty chamber and hammer down. That means you are going to have to rack the charging handle anyway.

[Screwball 482]

3 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

This leaves me confused. You don't like the idea of having to rack the charging handle if you fire a shot before you unfold the brace but then you say you keep your truck gun with an empty chamber and hammer down. That means you are going to have to rack the charging handle anyway.

Not that confusing in my eyes... fired round that you have to manually eject is along the lines of a malfunction (talking about semi-autos). So, the rifle is not ready to fire at that time... when in most circumstances, it should be (you pull the trigger on a semi-auto, fired case is ejected/new round is chambered).

Unless you train to the point that you’d likely be wearing out that bolt tail quick/fast/in a hurry, you are going to be shooting it unfolded 99.9% of the time. That means the subsequent rounds will go off without cycling the action. Where are you going to default to? All the YouTube videos showing it does work folded are nice, but what happens when you are amped up, don’t unfold the gun, and treat it as a malfunction? Bolt is locked up, charging handle isn’t moving... not something I’d want to be diagnosing under stress. It is a lot easier to perform that task when you have a camera recording (which can edit out mistakes), and nothing is being fired back at you.

I rather chamber a round from Jump Street knowing the gun will fire until empty than maybe fire folded, unfold, and possibly not cycle the action... leaving a spent case in the chamber. Gun isn’t going to go off when you need it to after that point. Consistency is a very nice thing to have in your corner. Grab the gun, try moving the selector to safe... it doesn’t. Obviously, the hammer is down and nothing is in the chamber. Chamber a round, either you are ready to fire or you are putting on the safety. And the biggest part... no odd quirks to consider.

Besides, it isn’t what I’m using to shoot from the driver’s seat. Having it folded and getting into the fight isn’t the biggest concern for why I have it (it sits in my truck at some work locations where long guns are not present; or if I was ever off duty, and something along the lines of an active shooter occurred). If it were a big enough concern, it would be a pistol that fires 100% from the folding orientation (my AK-P... for example). I don’t see the negatives outweighing the positives, especially when not needing the shorter profile... and that doesn’t even get into the $270 price tag.

[david8613 69]

I thought when they measure the over all length of an "other" they mrasure from tip of the barrel minus brake/comp/flash hider unless its wielded to barrel and then to the very end of buffer tube, not the brace. So wouldn't that make a folder ok? 

[JackDaWack 2,418]

On 2/26/2021 at 12:34 AM, david8613 said:

I thought when they measure the over all length of an "other" they mrasure from tip of the barrel minus brake/comp/flash hider unless its wielded to barrel and then to the very end of buffer tube, not the brace. So wouldn't that make a folder ok? 

They (ATF), can measure it anyway they want. So if you give them the opportunity to measure it with a folded brace, they'll have the opportunity to chose folded or not.. 

Why give them that opportunity? 

[Screwball 482]

On 2/26/2021 at 12:34 AM, david8613 said:

I thought when they measure the over all length of an "other" they mrasure from tip of the barrel minus brake/comp/flash hider unless its wielded to barrel and then to the very end of buffer tube, not the brace. So wouldn't that make a folder ok? 

Stocks are measured unfolded... and for a little bit, that’s how braces were measured.

ATF put out a letter when people were trying to put folders on 26+” AR pistols (Other firearms), which required a vertical grip. Their decision was if it is a folding buffer tube, even if the gun cannot function when folded, OAL is determined with it folded... making OAL shorter. Their argument is something like a rifle/shotgun is designed to be fired from the shoulder, so the stock should be deployed in OAL measurement. Pistols or Others... the brace is an “accessory,” so shouldn’t be considered in OAL if it can be folded. Made a lot of BS with that decision.

So, if you put a folder on an Other, and folded it is less than 26”... you made an AOW (pistol with vertical grip).