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Projected Impact of Dem Win on G&A

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32 minutes ago, El Jefe said:

As to the whole "right" concept. If we have to get a permit and pay for the gun and permit is it really a right?

Unfortunately, that comes down to politics again. Which states are the ones that make you pay for that Right?

32 minutes ago, El Jefe said:

Voting is a right and it is free, if you are trying to equate gun ownership to voting, should that be free as well?

Yes.  Do we have to pay to go to church? Do we have to pay to post a comment here? Do we have to pay to join a local citizens group? But, we have to pay to buy a firearm. Does that make sense?

32 minutes ago, El Jefe said:

I would argue that in a capitalistic society anything you have to pay for is not a right, it is a privilege : ) 

Sadly, that's what the Democrats want you to believe. It's all about control. To them, the Constitution is toilet paper:

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12 minutes ago, RUTGERS95 said:

you guys are dopes for engaging this cat

What?? We're just having some entertainment. Like I've said in the past, many times I don't post as a direct reply to the other poster (while it might seem that way), I do it more to educated the Lurker, who is just reading along at home. In most cases, that direct poster is beyond help, but maybe, just maybe, someone else lurking can be saved!!!

I'm all about helping!!!  :ok:

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8 minutes ago, Sniper said:

What?? We're just having some entertainment. Like I've said in the past, many times I don't post as a direct reply to the other poster (while it might seem that way), I do it more to educated the Lurker, who is just reading along at home. In most cases, that direct poster is beyond help, but maybe, just maybe, someone else lurking can be saved!!!

I'm all about helping!!!  :ok:

there is little doubt he's sitting on the other side of the screen laughing and musing at pulling at your stings.  He's ignorant, myopic, narrow minded and jaded.  Move on, he's better off slipping on ice and not getting up imho

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2 hours ago, RUTGERS95 said:

there is little doubt he's sitting on the other side of the screen laughing and musing at pulling at your stings. 

Believe me, he's not pulling my "stings" (or strings) at all.  :lol: :danced: No one can do that.

2 hours ago, RUTGERS95 said:

He's ignorant, myopic, narrow minded and jaded. 

That's what I referenced, he's beyond help. I know I'm not changing HIS mind or beliefs.

2 hours ago, RUTGERS95 said:

Move on, he's better off slipping on ice and not getting up imho

Ha.... I'm retired... I have nothing but time... I'll go head to head against his delusions...

Like I said, if I can educate one lurker...

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19 hours ago, RUTGERS95 said:

there is little doubt he's sitting on the other side of the screen laughing and musing at pulling at your stings.  He's ignorant, myopic, narrow minded and jaded.  Move on, he's better off slipping on ice and not getting up imho

You are a true defender of free speech here, aren't you RUTGERS95, wishing me to "slip on ice and not get up" just because I do not see the world in the exact shade of stupid you believe in.

I on the other hand wish you good health, as someone who is comfortable in their views I have no problem debating the opposition. And while you think I'm ignorant and myopic 50% of this country, and over 70% of the western world population share my views and not yours. So you have to stop and think, is there half a percent chance you didn't get it right on any topic?

And as a reminder what we are really on about, this is not a philosophical debate about every single thing in life, this is just about guns. I'm 100% pro gun ownership with the caveat of mental health and background check and mandatory safety training for the first weapon of a kind you buy. E.g. first hand gun - get training. First rifle - get training.

One single item I disagree with most here, and I'm the enemy. If it makes you that angry making you think your neighbor is your enemy, this indicates more about you then about the topic - FEAR, you just live in fear.

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20 minutes ago, El Jefe said:

And while you think I'm ignorant and myopic 50% of this country, and over 70% of the western world population share my views and not yours.

That logic leads to tyranny by the majority. Something the Constitution specifically tried to avoid.  

 

22 minutes ago, El Jefe said:

I'm 100% pro gun ownership with the caveat of mental health and background check and mandatory safety training for the first weapon of a kind you buy.

Sounds like the typical “I’m pro-2A, but...” BS.  Cant you at least acknowledge there are legitimate concerns with mandating anything when it comes to a right?  Especially a right whose context includes protection against government overreach and tyranny. 
 

By the way, safety training would only make a small dent in the gun deaths. Accidents are rare and have been dropping. Adding the intrusion, cost and infringement to a right for very little gain is abhorrent. 

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2 hours ago, El Jefe said:

I have no problem debating the opposition. And while you think I'm ignorant and myopic 50% of this country, and over 70% of the western world population share my views and not yours.

I would love to see the facts, studies and data to prove that, but if I had to guess, they probably don't exist.

1 hour ago, voyager9 said:

By the way, safety training would only make a small dent in the gun deaths. Accidents are rare and have been dropping. Adding the intrusion, cost and infringement to a right for very little gain is abhorrent. 

I agree..

I wonder how much that safety training would help with deaths in the hoods of Chicago, Baltimore, etc..

1 hour ago, voyager9 said:

Cant you at least acknowledge there are legitimate concerns with mandating anything when it comes to a right?  Especially a right whose context includes protection against government overreach and tyranny. 

He won't. The Dems always think the government and more laws are the answer.

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On 10/31/2020 at 11:40 AM, Sniper said:

I would love to see the facts, studies and data to prove that, but if I had to guess, they probably don't exist.

I agree..

I wonder how much that safety training would help with deaths in the hoods of Chicago, Baltimore, etc..

He won't. The Dems always think the government and more laws are the answer.

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Sniper - are you questioning the fact that 50% of the US population disagrees with you view that "the right to own guns trumps any other topic" really? you are asking for studies and facts on this little tidbit? 

You can't say in one sentence that all democrats are gun haters that are looking to limit your rights and then on the other sentence claim there is no proof that 50% of Americans disagree with you on gun rights. Unless you believe that there is no real democratic party base and all the ballots of the last 5 elections where democrats were 50% of the votes are all fake?

Which makes me wonder, were you ever wrong about anything in your life. If you cannot even accept this little fact that many oppose your point of view, and cannot admit to yourself that you are wrong about anything, my guess is that you are wrong a lot : )

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34 minutes ago, El Jefe said:

Unless you believe that there is no real democratic party base and all the ballots of the last 5 elections where democrats were 50% of the votes are all fake?

See, this is why I know you won't provide any evidence. You don't even know the size of the Dem base. It's approximately 30% of the population, NOT 50%.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx

(see, that's called evidence)

35 minutes ago, El Jefe said:

Which makes me wonder, were you ever wrong about anything in your life. If you cannot even accept this little fact that many oppose your point of view, and cannot admit to yourself that you are wrong about anything, my guess is that you are wrong a lot : )

I'm rarely wrong, and I back up most of what I post with evidence... you, on the other hand, back up what you post with.... nothing... but hyperbole or "Truth by Proclamation", like most other Dems..

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On 10/29/2020 at 4:29 PM, Mrs. Peel said:

Gun ownership has been more or less obliterated in merry old England over time, and yet, interestingly...London's murder rate has gone way up. Just a couple of years ago - for the first time EVER - it even surpassed NYC's! The increase was driven overwhelmingly by the number of gangbangers fatally stabbing competing gangbangers. The lesson: never focus on the TOOL! They should have been focused on programs to put more money into their gang units, start community programs to pull kids out of gang life, increase prosecutions to put more gang leaders in jail, etc. It's the criminal intent/criminal enterprise that needs to be controlled, not the gun, the knife, etc.

Look at Australia, which liberals tout for their mandatory gun buyback (a.k.a. confiscation!) many years back. Do you honestly believe there haven't been any mass murders down under since that happened? If you did, you'd be WRONG. They have had a number of ghoulish mass murders... interestingly, many of them by arson. So, how can you stop people from buying gasoline and matches? You can't. Nor should you try. It's a fool's errand.

BTW, though most of you already know this, that chart that @Sniper shared above refers to ALL rifles - including traditional bolt action rifles, etc. AR-15's and other semi-auto rifles (wrongly termed "assault" rifles) are only one portion of the rifles owned in this country - so that number of murders can't even be attributed to semi-auto rifles. The exaggerated focus on "controlling" "assault" rifles is so illogical, it's actually absurd. Anyone making those arguments IMO has either: 1) zero familiarity with real-world crime data, or 2) is so locked into other aspects of the issue (fear? politics?), they have their heads stuck in the sand and have literally lost their ability to harness logic and reason

Australia also has a higher number in their mass shooting definition (5 or more) to keep their numbers lower now that they have a gun ban.

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On 11/1/2020 at 11:56 AM, Sniper said:

See, this is why I know you won't provide any evidence. You don't even know the size of the Dem base. It's approximately 30% of the population, NOT 50%.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx

(see, that's called evidence)

I'm rarely wrong, and I back up most of what I post with evidence... you, on the other hand, back up what you post with.... nothing... but hyperbole or "Truth by Proclamation", like most other Dems..

Let's assume for a minute that the "40% independents" is the real number and that they somehow divide on the gun issue. According to the poll you quoted there are 31% democrats and 29% republicans. So if the independents divide equally or if we ignore them you have to concede that there are at least the same number of people in the US that share the same views as me as they are people that share your views. 
So let me paste my original remark to you....

Sniper - are you questioning the fact that 50% of the US population disagrees with you view that "the right to own guns trumps any other topic" really? you are asking for studies and facts on this little tidbit? 

Now you can argue till we both are blue in the face, but your opinion about gun rights is just that an opinion, one that I'm willing to listen to, but you condescending self righteousness needs to be curbed. There are no facts on your side that training is not a good idea. As someone who spent over six years of his life in military service I am a firm believer in being trained on the use of weapon and the respect of said weapon. If you are comfortable with your weapon your chances of shooting your foot or emptying a clip into the air or worse in time of need are exponentially smaller. And once more, I welcome an opposing view from people that are actually trained in using guns, whether through military, law enforcement, or seasoned NRA instructors that will voice there opinion why training is not a good idea, and not regurgitate the old "I have a right" that has nothing to do with training...

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19 minutes ago, El Jefe said:

As someone who spent over six years of his life in military service I am a firm believer in being trained on the use of weapon and the respect of said weapon. If you are comfortable with your weapon your chances of shooting your foot or emptying a clip into the air or worse in time of need are exponentially smaller.

As a fellow veteran, I try to avoid calling out any veteran.  I also was in the Army for 6 years, belong to the American Legion, am friends with many police officers, and have NEVER ONCE heard a veteran call a MAGAZINE a CLIP.  What military were you in?

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25 minutes ago, Gabesdad said:

As a fellow veteran, I try to avoid calling out any veteran.  I also was in the Army for 6 years, belong to the American Legion, am friends with many police officers, and have NEVER ONCE heard a veteran call a MAGAZINE a CLIP.  What military were you in?

I see you caught that as well.

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4 minutes ago, JC_68Westy said:

I see you caught that as well.

Growing up in a military family, I'd get beating raw calling it a clip.

United States Air Force Auxiliary perhaps.   You know, flies on the weekends in good weather looking for lost hikers.

 

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54 minutes ago, El Jefe said:

shooting your foot or emptying a clip into the air or worse in time of need are exponentially smaller.

Thank you for your service - your training doctrine needs updating.

You used magazines, this is a clip.

 

M1A M14 Stripper Clips, Set of 5, 7.62 NATO, *Very Good*

enbloc clip problems

 

:)

:popcorn:

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49 minutes ago, El Jefe said:

There are no facts on your side that training is not a good idea.

Where have I or anyone else said training was a bad idea? The whole discussion pointed out to you was forcing it to be Mandatory, and who decides what that training should be. The fact that you would seem to be OK with paying for a "Right" is very telling.

52 minutes ago, El Jefe said:

Let's assume for a minute that the "40% independents" is the real number and that they somehow divide on the gun issue. According to the poll you quoted there are 31% democrats and 29% republicans. So if the independents divide equally or if we ignore them you have to concede that there are at least the same number of people in the US that share the same views as me as they are people that share your views. 

For starters, you know what happens when you assume, right?

But, I'll play along with your assumptions, since you can't see to find any evidence to support your claim. I would assume that the numbers definitely lean towards pro gun owners. Republicans, the majority of independents and even some Democrats believe in same gun ownership beliefs(just look at the number of Dems that have bought firearms this year). So, if you'd post some data, you'd find that. I'd go get it, but I'm not doing the work for you.

57 minutes ago, El Jefe said:

As someone who spent over six years of his life in military service I am a firm believer in being trained on the use of weapon and the respect of said weapon. If you are comfortable with your weapon your chances of shooting your foot or emptying a clip into the air

:facepalm:  :facepalm:  :facepalm:

42 minutes ago, Gabesdad said:

I also was in the Army for 6 years, belong to the American Legion, am friends with many police officers, and have NEVER ONCE heard a veteran call a MAGAZINE a CLIP. 

It just seems that the curtain keeps being pulled back, little by little, on him.

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21 hours ago, Gabesdad said:

As a fellow veteran, I try to avoid calling out any veteran.  I also was in the Army for 6 years, belong to the American Legion, am friends with many police officers, and have NEVER ONCE heard a veteran call a MAGAZINE a CLIP.  What military were you in?

DENDEN DENNNNNNNNNNNN

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