ATF making AR/AK pistols AOWs, SBRs

[ChrisJM981 924]

Remember that time a bunch of people said, "Who needs a bumpstock?" and others warned it was a slippery slope? ATF is allegedly going after arm braces on pistols. I wonder what they'll come for next?

[CMJeepster 2,777]

Because this will curb violence...

[RUTGERS95 890]

ATF needs to be abolished

[PeteF 1,044]

Lets see if this goes anywhere

 

[M1152 713]

 

[JeepGunner 109]

The ATF is just getting a head start on a projected Biden win. 

We can't go full Commie mode until all the legal guns are confiscated and law abiding citizens imprisoned.

The ATF and FBI are the American derivatives of the Stasi and NKVD.

[ChrisJM981 924]

On 10/27/2020 at 12:52 PM, RUTGERS95 said:

ATF needs to be abolished

The NFA & GCA need to go as well. 

[ChrisJM981 924]

And there it is. One piece at a time. Hopefully this gets cleared up, but not likely. 

[RUTGERS95 890]

On 10/28/2020 at 8:43 PM, ChrisJM981 said:

The NFA & GCA need to go as well. 

absolutely but the truth is, they know we won't do anything.  Look at VA and how they marched.  I said at the time, unless locked and loaded and shutting down the capital, nothing will happen and boom; nothing happened.  We on the right talk a great game, a GREAT game but no one will do anything because we're the only adults in the room

[always_an_eagle 165]

UPDATE:

https://blog.princelaw.com/2020/12/16/atf-to-institute-rulemaking-regarding-stabilizing-braces-and-require-registration-of-currently-owned-braces/

[Krdshrk 3,877]

1 hour ago, always_an_eagle said:

UPDATE:

https://blog.princelaw.com/2020/12/16/atf-to-institute-rulemaking-regarding-stabilizing-braces-and-require-registration-of-currently-owned-braces/

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/no-pistol-braces-are-not-banned-but-atf-is-attempting-further-restrictions/

Looks like it's targeting guns that are sold as pistols to specifically bypass the SBR laws and tax stamp reqs...

[ChrisJM981 924]

1 hour ago, Krdshrk said:

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/no-pistol-braces-are-not-banned-but-atf-is-attempting-further-restrictions/

Looks like it's targeting guns that are sold as pistols to specifically bypass the SBR laws and tax stamp reqs...

It's arbitrarily determining legality. Example: basing it on weight and length. The purpose of an arm brace is to be able to stabilize a firearm that would otherwise be difficult to shoot one handed and is the purpose of the brace. More to come via the BATFECES and executive order. Sadly it's a catch 22. Either people standby and watch their rights be violated, or they take action and be an example for the gun grabbers. It's no accident it was done during winter and the Wuhan Virus to deter gun owners from demonstrating. 

I say  to the BATFECES. 

[marlintag 223]

The ATF is an archaic organization that was created at a time when the average American can order a full auto firearm from a catalog, a time when bootleggers would have gangland battles in broad daylight with fully auto BAR's and Thompsons. Those times have long since past along with the ATF's relevance. The fact is that tobacco and alcohol are both legal and are only lightly restricted, so whey does the ATF still exist? They justify their existence by reclassifying weapons and accessories that unsuspecting guns owners purchased legally in their respective states. There a bunch of screw-ups and have been since Waco and Ruby Ridge and continue to be a nuisance to the legal gun owning populace. What a world it would be if we can just be left alone!

[EdF 323]

This reminds me of the computer software copy protection issue of the early and mid-1980's. 

At the time, software was delivered on 5 1/4 inch floppy disks.  You needed to have the disk inserted in your computer in order to run it because few had enough (or any) internal disk space to "install" the software.  Installation came along much later.  

Software companies produced these disks with "copy protection" to prevent users from buying one copy and then sharing it among several users.  Within weeks of any new copy protection method, pirates would break it and produce a version of the copy command that could copy the disks all day.  Eventually some company developed a method that used a laser to burn a hole at a specific point in the disk and these were supposed to be absolutely safe from being copied . . . It took about a month before there was a copy program available for them.

The ATF and states are trying to control what types of weapons are legal or, more so, illegal.  But, the owners and the manufacturers are threading lines through the holes in the definitions.  Then the government tries to close those holes.  Then we find others.  Then they try to close those . . . ad infinitum . . . 

I'm NOT supporting their efforts at all.  Just pointing to a similar situation.

[vladtepes 1,060]

On 12/17/2020 at 10:02 AM, EdF said:

This reminds me of the computer software copy protection issue of the early and mid-1980's. 

At the time, software was delivered on 5 1/4 inch floppy disks.  You needed to have the disk inserted in your computer in order to run it because few had enough (or any) internal disk space to "install" the software.  Installation came along much later.  

Software companies produced these disks with "copy protection" to prevent users from buying one copy and then sharing it among several users.  Within weeks of any new copy protection method, pirates would break it and produce a version of the copy command that could copy the disks all day.  Eventually some company developed a method that used a laser to burn a hole at a specific point in the disk and these were supposed to be absolutely safe from being copied . . . It took about a month before there was a copy program available for them.

The ATF and states are trying to control what types of weapons are legal or, more so, illegal.  But, the owners and the manufacturers are threading lines through the holes in the definitions.  Then the government tries to close those holes.  Then we find others.  Then they try to close those . . . ad infinitum . . . 

I'm NOT supporting their efforts at all.  Just pointing to a similar situation.

to your point... what did we expect... 

SBRs like it or not are regulated.. that is the current law... 
the vast majority of people that own a brace or have considered a brace do so to skirt the law... period... 

a new brace is released and within a day searching for it on youtube is an endless stream of people shouldering it and giving reviews on it as if it were a stock... 

while I completely opposed gun regulations at all as I believe they are ineffective at accomplishing what they state they are to accomplish.... I can EASILY see why this has happened.. 

"hey guys check out my new AR pistol... with a front grip.. LPVO.. etc.."
it is 100% obvious that they do not intend to use it in the spirit of a pistol.. which is fine.. but then just go through the legal channels to register it as a SBR... I have one SBR.. and two brace equipped guns.. the brace equipped guns will be swapped over to SBRs with stamps sooner than later as this whole game does not interest me... 

the one concern I have is for people in NJ that bought into the whole other thing... federal law and state law ARE separate.. but will NJ come back now and reclassify all those guns with braces it previously allowed?

[Krdshrk 3,877]

10 hours ago, vladtepes said:

the one concern I have is for people in NJ that bought into the whole other thing... federal law and state law ARE separate.. but will NJ come back now and reclassify all those guns with braces it previously allowed?

To your point - CT has WAY more Other firearm owners I think.  They're the only way to get a detachable mag AR besides the grandfathered ones.

[vladtepes 1,060]

13 hours ago, Krdshrk said:

To your point - CT has WAY more Other firearm owners I think.  They're the only way to get a detachable mag AR besides the grandfathered ones.

I dont have any friends in CT.. so my immediate thought was for you guys.. LOL 
but interesting to know.. in theory.. they COULD be regulated at the federal level AND totally free at the state level at the same time.. 

it will be interesting to see if NJ does the right thing for once ever and follows their state definitions and makes no change.. 

[CMJeepster 2,777]

On 12/19/2020 at 12:13 PM, vladtepes said:

it will be interesting to see if NJ does the right thing for once ...

  

[124gr9mm 859]

On 12/18/2020 at 11:28 AM, vladtepes said:

to your point... what did we expect... 

SBRs like it or not are regulated.. that is the current law... 
the vast majority of people that own a brace or have considered a brace do so to skirt the law... period... 

a new brace is released and within a day searching for it on youtube is an endless stream of people shouldering it and giving reviews on it as if it were a stock... 

while I completely opposed gun regulations at all as I believe they are ineffective at accomplishing what they state they are to accomplish.... I can EASILY see why this has happened.. 

"hey guys check out my new AR pistol... with a front grip.. LPVO.. etc.."
it is 100% obvious that they do not intend to use it in the spirit of a pistol.. which is fine.. but then just go through the legal channels to register it as a SBR... I have one SBR.. and two brace equipped guns.. the brace equipped guns will be swapped over to SBRs with stamps sooner than later as this whole game does not interest me... 

the one concern I have is for people in NJ that bought into the whole other thing... federal law and state law ARE separate.. but will NJ come back now and reclassify all those guns with braces it previously allowed?

I agree with both of you.

The law about SBR's have been on the books since 1934, so it was only a matter of time before the dolts at ATF realized that people were running around and having a grand old time with...SBR's.  There was no notice of the fact that there was no sudden upswing in gun violence as a result, just a realization that people were skirting the law of the land.

I do feel bad for the NJ people that spent way too much money on their "other" firearms and will now have to register them, lose them in a boating accident, or relegate them to the back of the safe.

It will be interesting to see where the Kamala Harris administration lands on this.

[ChrisA2 3]

8 hours ago, 124gr9mm said:

I agree with both of you.

The law about SBR's have been on the books since 1934, so it was only a matter of time before the dolts at ATF realized that people were running around and having a grand old time with...SBR's.  There was no notice of the fact that there was no sudden upswing in gun violence as a result, just a realization that people were skirting the law of the land.

I do feel bad for the NJ people that spent way too much money on their "other" firearms and will now have to register them, lose them in a boating accident, or relegate them to the back of the safe.

It will be interesting to see where the Kamala Harris administration lands on this.

They got spooked by the events that took place during the BLM riots with people out in their AR's protecting properties.

[124gr9mm 859]

4 minutes ago, ChrisA2 said:

They got spooked by the events that took place during the BLM riots with people out in their AR's protecting properties.

That could be part of it.

I think a lot of government organizations had some "oh shit" moments when they realized that individual citizens could (and would) actually stop rioting and pillaging with their firearms.

[JeepGunner 109]

The ATF is a rogue agency at this point, much like NJ is a rogue state with respect to the 2A.

Guns and gadgets had an interesting video release today.  According to the letter of the law, lower receivers are not firearms as the necessary ingredients according to the law are found in the upper combined with the lower.

The implication is that the ATF arbitrarily decides legality when it is not in its purvue to do so.  Anybody that felt the bump stock ban wasn't a big deal, well now it's  lowers and pistol braces, tomorrow it will be semi auto fire.  When it stops is up to us.

The answer is mass refusal to comply with what is at this point are illigitimate government edicts to disarm the population.  Box cars are in our future if we keep complying. 

[45Doll 5,872]

13 minutes ago, StarGazer said:

  Box cars are in our future if we keep complying. 

"In the trains bound for whispered destinations."

[Xtors 332]

Breaking from TTAG:

The ATF has just posted a notice that they have withdrawn their request for public comment on “Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with ‘Stabilizing Braces‘” in the Federal Register. Here is the full announcement from the ATF:

ATF is announcing the withdrawal of a notice and request for comments entitled “Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with ‘Stabilizing Braces’,” that was published on December 18, 2020.

[RUTGERS95 890]

On 12/21/2020 at 7:10 PM, ChrisA2 said:

They got spooked by the events that took place during the BLM riots with people out in their AR's protecting properties.

what is more is that if these same people actually start shooting and others join in, no way the police risk their lives and pension in these type brawls.  Imagine if one of those riots, instead of rocks etc., used ARs and targeted people.  Not enough police so do they call in the National Guard?

As citizens, we have a lot of power we've yet to utilize.  I have always said, if 10-20k or more showed up at the SC, Congress, state capital locked and loaded and said you will uphold the constitution or we remove you, things would change.  That breaking point may be coming based on Oregon.

will be interesting to see how this unfolds

6 minutes ago, Xtors said:

Breaking from TTAG:

The ATF has just posted a notice that they have withdrawn their request for public comment on “Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with ‘Stabilizing Braces‘” in the Federal Register. Here is the full announcement from the ATF:

ATF is announcing the withdrawal of a notice and request for comments entitled “Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with ‘Stabilizing Braces’,” that was published on December 18, 2020.

what does this infer?

agree on 'other' firearms as these will be targeted too

[raz-0 1,259]

3 hours ago, RUTGERS95 said:

what is more is that if these same people actually start shooting and others join in, no way the police risk their lives and pension in these type brawls.  Imagine if one of those riots, instead of rocks etc., used ARs and targeted people.  Not enough police so do they call in the National Guard?

As citizens, we have a lot of power we've yet to utilize.  I have always said, if 10-20k or more showed up at the SC, Congress, state capital locked and loaded and said you will uphold the constitution or we remove you, things would change.  That breaking point may be coming based on Oregon.

will be interesting to see how this unfolds

what does this infer?

agree on 'other' firearms as these will be targeted too

Dude, even if people just shrugged and said fuck you en masse. What are they going to do. The numbers I have seen thrown around on braces sold is in the 4 million region. If you get sub 5% compliance, what will you do with 3.8 million felons required to serve 85% of their sentence on a federal beef? 

I genuinely think they believe their bullshit when they keep gaming polling questions to make claims that 72% of gun owners are just begging for tons of gun control. 

[RUTGERS95 890]

Its a start i hope

 

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2020/12/congresswoman-elect-calls-for-atf-to-be-defunded-and-eliminated/

[Xtors 332]

1 hour ago, RUTGERS95 said:

Its a start i hope

 

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2020/12/congresswoman-elect-calls-for-atf-to-be-defunded-and-eliminated/

Agreed, but the cynic in me thinks that they are only bidening their time until the results of the GA senate elections or, worst case, the inauguration, at which time they will tell people with SBRs to #sand.

 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

On 12/23/2020 at 8:32 PM, RUTGERS95 said:

what is more is that if these same people actually start shooting and others join in, no way the police risk their lives and pension in these type brawls.  Imagine if one of those riots, instead of rocks etc., used ARs and targeted people.  Not enough police so do they call in the National Guard?

As citizens, we have a lot of power we've yet to utilize.  I have always said, if 10-20k or more showed up at the SC, Congress, state capital locked and loaded and said you will uphold the constitution or we remove you, things would change.  That breaking point may be coming based on Oregon.

will be interesting to see how this unfolds

what does this infer?

agree on 'other' firearms as these will be targeted too

Joe Biden will call in the Military , right after he initiates martial law. 

Obama already cleaned shop and their loyalists are still hanging around.

[marlintag 223]

I wish they would defund and disband the ATF. I know from first hand experience that they are a bunch of douchbags, i worked next to an actual ATF office in North Jersey for a few months. The agents were inconsiderate, disrespectful, and gave dirty looks to everybody other than their own. I would also hear bickering among them selves in the hallways and petty in-fighting on a few occasions. In a just world THEY WOULD BE FIRED ALREADY!! GET RID OF'EM.