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FPC, SAF, NJ2AS File New Lawsuit Challenging New Jersey Handgun Carry Ban

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Wasn't sure if this should be merged with the recent ANJRPC CCW lawsuit thread...

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/fpc-saf-nj2as-file-new-lawsuit-challenging-new-jersey-handgun-carry-ban/

Snippet:

From the Firearms Policy Coalition:

Today, Firearms Policy Coalition (FPC),  Second Amendment Foundation (SAF), and New Jersey Second Amendment Society (NJ2AS) announced the filing of a new federal lawsuit challenging the State of New Jersey’s laws that prevent individuals from carrying a loaded handgun outside of the home for self-defense. This new lawsuit challenges New Jersey’s criminal statutory scheme as it relates to carrying loaded, operable handguns outside of the home without a permit as well as the State’s regulatory scheme as it relates to applications for and issuance of carry permits. The case, Bennett v. Davis, can be viewed at FPCLegal.org.

New Jersey law makes it a crime for a law-abiding individual to carry a loaded handgun outside of the home unless they have been issued a permit to carry a handgun, thus denying them their right to bear arms. Worse, State law prevents them from obtaining such a permit because of further unconstitutional requirements, such as the demonstration of “justifiable need”, among others.

New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy has previously said that “private citizens should not be able to carry weapons based on mere generalized fear.” However, say the plaintiffs, the Supreme Court’s precedents take that policy choice off the table, and the Constitution itself provides the only justification necessary for law-abiding adults to exercise their fundamental, individual right to bear arms.

“This case is fundamentally a simple but important one,” said attorney for the plaintiffs, Raymond DiGuiseppe. “In New Jersey today, the right to carry loaded handguns in public for all lawful purposes, including self defense, is completely denied to law-abiding people, like and including our clients. But the U.S. Supreme Court has held that such bans are categorically unconstitutional. We look forward to vindicating the rights of our clients and forcing New Jersey to respect the Constitution.”

More at link.

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All of this is such a crap shoot with the election results yet unknown.

But, assuming ( a big assumption) the current make-up of SCOTUS remains the same (no court packing, etc.), I think the more well-crafted, well-argued lawsuits brought before this new conservative-majority court - the better!!  So, now there will apparently be 2 in NJ's pipeline - each with strong national-level 2A orgs supporting them. This is a GOOD THING!!

I'll be interested to read further - to see who the plaintiffs are, what the specific legal arguments are, etc. - and to follow the news on these. Thanks for sharing this one!

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Agreed @Mrs. Peel.

This brings up a couple of questions for me. Assumption is we are trying to get Justifiable Need tossed. However, my read of the laws talks about a training requirement but doesn't give any specifics. Web search doesn't either. Does anyone know what qualifies as a valid training requirement? I'd be willing to apply and get denied but don't want to go through the motions and have it denied for the wrong reason. Also, are there any downstream negative repercussions from applying and getting denied?

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Just now, Xtors said:

Also, are there any downstream negative repercussions from applying and getting denied?

I can't speak to training, but I do know that this was answered at a 2A conference a couple of years back - as I recall, a well-regarded member of NJSP's FIrearms unit was quite clear that denial here in NJ would not hurt you in downstream applications, either here or in other states, and he couldn't understand why MORE people weren't applying. By NOT applying (out of misplaced fear of exactly those repercussions), it drives down the number of applications which allows the state to then say: See? We're not denying that many.

It also seems to me that it makes it so that our state 2A orgs need to "scramble" every time there's a lawsuit, looking for potential plaintiffs like proverbial needles in a haystack... because so few New Jersey gun owners bother to apply, knowing they'll get rejected and assuming that rejection may cause other problems.

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2 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said:

I can't speak to training, but I do know that this was answered at a 2A conference a couple of years back - as I recall, a well-regarded member of NJSP's FIrearms unit was quite clear that denial here in NJ would not hurt you in downstream applications, either here or in other states, and he couldn't understand why MORE people weren't applying. By NOT applying (out of misplaced fear of exactly those repercussions), it drives down the number of applications which allows the state to then say: See? We're not denying that many.

Good to know (and thanks)! If I can get the training question answered I will definitely apply.

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4 hours ago, revenger said:

and the NRA is "conspicuous by their absence"    

 

4 hours ago, 10X said:

They're too busy asking me for money once or twice a day.

 

3 hours ago, Xtors said:

WLP's suits aren't going to purchase themselves!

 

Ummm, no! I don't want to hijack this thread, but we need some facts here. ANJRPC - our state NRA affiliate - just put out a notice on Oct 29 that they too will be filing a concealed carry lawsuit. Anthony Colandro - @gunforhire - also mentioned it on a thread right here on NJ Gun Forums. They are looking for people who were denied a carry permit to be named as plaintiffs:

"If you have recently been denied a carry permit and are interested in being part of the new case, please contact ANJRPC attorney Dan Schmutter at dschmutter@hartmanwinnicki.com."

No doubt, the national-level NRA will be supporting the case, as they have always done with ANJRPC's past cases. I know some of us are suffering from the dreaded "pandemic grumpies" - but can we try not to gleefully "eat our own" in the 2A community?

The more 2A groups that are filing lawsuits... the better! In this case, it looks like a wide swath of 2A groups will be involved between the two concealed carry suits. I'm sure other groups not directly involved may well weigh in with amicus briefs, etc. Although, the future of SCOTUS is election-dependent... god willing, with the addition of Amy Coney Barrett, this will remain the first "true" pro-2A leaning court in YEARS (Roberts was too much of a squish to count IMO).

This is a good thing - why all the bitching, people?  :facepalm:

 

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This is a win, win, win. Trump has put enough judges on the third circuit that we may get one for phase one. Win or loose we go to appeals and again we can draw 2 of the three conservative judges. If we win there it is over, NJ would not appeal to SCOTUS. There is enough pressure from the deep state to compel them. They don't want a SCOTUS opinion to affect the whole country. If we loose through appeals, then we win at SCOTUS. There is no down side to this except the long wait. This is good news for sure.

This is due to the confirmation of Amy Coney Barrett, thank you President Trump.

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We are looking for more plaintiffs for the NRA/ANJRPC case we launched a few weeks ago. If you know of anyone denied a carry in NJ please have them email me anthony@gunforhire.com

 

Also our 10 round mag ban case is at the 3rd circuit and we may beat California to the supremes with this case. This is also guided by NRA and ANJRPC as well.

 

Please do not hijack this thread with your complaints about CCW in NJ or what the NRA or ANJRPC has not done. You can email me directly with that.

 

We need a few more plaintiffs, trying to cover a few angles.

 

Thanks

 

Ant

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2 minutes ago, gunforhire said:

We are looking for more plaintiffs for the NRA/ANJRPC case we launched a few weeks ago. If you know of anyone denied a carry in NJ please have them email me anthony@gunforhire.com

Anthony, can you speak to the training requirements? I want to get involved but don't want to be denied for training...

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Just now, Xtors said:

Anthony, can you speak to the training requirements? I want to get involved but don't want to be denied for training...

Trying is a qualification course with an FBI Q target at 7 - 10 - 15 - 25 yards. 50 rounds total with an 80% passing score. Its too late now to apply so please do not do it. We are looking to add a few plaintiffs now that were previously denied. This will be our third attempt in 8 years last two cases made it to the supremes and they did not grant cert either time. Maybe 3 is a charm. PS - when Thomas wrote he 18 page dissent on the 10 2A cases dropped a few months ago it was our NJ Rogers case that he cited! UGH so close!

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Just now, gunforhire said:

Trying is a qualification course with an FBI Q target at 7 - 10 - 15 - 25 yards. 50 rounds total with an 80% passing score. Its too late now to apply so please do not do it. We are looking to add a few plaintiffs now that were previously denied. This will be our third attempt in 8 years last two cases made it to the supremes and they did not grant cert either time. Maybe 3 is a charm. PS - when Thomas wrote he 18 page dissent on the 10 2A cases dropped a few months ago it was our NJ Rogers case that he cited! UGH so close!

Thanks!

This sounds like what I've heard as the Attorney General qualifier (or something like that), which I formally passed as recently as April 2019 in a training class. Additional questions:

  1. Is there a time constraint as to how recently you have to have passed?
  2. Do you have to retake the test periodically?
  3. Is there a requirement as to what firearm you use, e.g. what you intend to carry?
  4. What constitutes proof that the test was passed?

Although ANJRPC doesn't need plaintiffs, I know FPC is still looking for folks so I'd still like to apply.

 

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4 hours ago, galapoola said:

Or an asteroid hits earth. Lighten up, the is is the best news we could hope for. A quick filing, 6-3 majority. You should be rejoicing.

Don't get me wrong I'm happy, just that things move slowly and If Biden wins we don't have the time factor on our side.

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19 minutes ago, Xtors said:

Thanks!

This sounds like what I've heard as the Attorney General qualifier (or something like that), which I formally passed as recently as April 2019 in a training class. Additional questions:

  1. Is there a time constraint as to how recently you have to have passed?
  2. Do you have to retake the test periodically?
  3. Is there a requirement as to what firearm you use, e.g. what you intend to carry?
  4. What constitutes proof that the test was passed?

Although ANJRPC doesn't need plaintiffs, I know FPC is still looking for folks so I'd still like to apply.

 

1 - Within the last 24 months

2 - Every year in NJ

3 - Yes, you must Qual with the gun(s) and ammo you intend to carry

4 - An instructor that is certified with the NJSP administers the Qual and scores it and gives you the form to submit

Here is a link to how we do it - https://gunforhire.com/academy/security-officer-and-retired-pd/

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