RO killed in accident during match

[124gr9mm 859]

Tragic.

Shooter missed his holster while getting ready for a stage and dropped his gun.  Gun landed on the hammer and killed the RO:

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2020/11/07/man-killed-accidental-shooting-genesee-conservation-league-gun-club-penfield-ny/6203971002/

 

Thoughts and prayers to the RO's family.

Stay safe out there all our forum members who RO or participate in competitions.

 

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Fixed the link so it was clickable.

I saw this happened - Brian Enos forums had more information too.  

Quote

Update 11/11/2020: We now know that the firearm in question was a DA/SA CZ Shadow, which does not have an internal firing pin block. According to eyewitnesses, the gun missed the holster during Load and Make Ready, fell and struck the concrete indoor range floor hammer first, causing the round to discharge.

Something to be mindful of if you're RO'ing - CZ Shadow, TS (Tactical Sport), AO1-LD, CZ 85 Combat do not have Firing Pin Blocks.  Still it's a SUPER random occurrence... 

[JC_68Westy 1,024]

Thankfully that was not on my list of must buy guns. It has been place on the list of never buy guns.

[124gr9mm 859]

5 minutes ago, Krdshrk said:

Something to be mindful of if you're RO'ing - CZ Shadow, TS (Tactical Sport), AO1-LD, CZ 85 Combat do not have Firing Pin Blocks.  Still it's a SUPER random occurrence... 

Indeed.

SUPER rare/random.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

How awful!  So sorry to hear that. 

[10X 3,296]

Wow--I'm stunned and saddened.

I like to tell new shooters I'm training that in the 10's of thousand's of hours I've spent training and competing on ranges across the country, I've NEVER seen an injury.  The occasional accident, yes...ADs, case head separations, etc, but thanks to relentless adherence to range safety protocols, I've never seen an injury.  I can't say that about any other hobby in which I participate.

But they can happen.   So sorry to hear of this one.

[Shepherd9 215]

Terrible accident and thoughts and prayers to the family.

Another reminder that attention and diligent adherence to every move you make is necessary.  This isn't a CZ fault, it's a fantastic gun. 

[kc17 622]

I saw this elsewhere on Sunday after I got home from a USPSA match. During that match two people were DQ'd, one sent a round over the berm (thankfully into a wooded area) during a reload, I don't know what the second person did.

I had not seen the how/why of what happened, nor is it in the link posted. How do we know it was from a dropped gun?

[Krdshrk 3,877]

11 minutes ago, kc17 said:

I had not seen the how/why of what happened, nor is it in the link posted. How do we know it was from a dropped gun?

Discussions with the USPSA community and the Brian Enos forums.  Also various articles - confirmed that it was a dropped gun after Make Ready.  

Be careful when holstering.

[RUTGERS95 890]

awful news

can you imagine how the guy feels today having been part of such an accident.  Poor guy, poor family of the RO

[JimB1 554]

Sad to hear. I have the CZ-75 SP01 which does have the firing pin block. There are articles around that some people take them out of the CZ-75 and CZ-75 SP-01 for competition so if anyone has a used CZ-75 or CZ-75 SP-01, you may want to verify it has the firing pin block if you like to have that extra security.

-Jim

[brucin 923]

1 hour ago, RUTGERS95 said:

awful news

can you imagine how the guy feels today having been part of such an accident.  Poor guy, poor family of the RO

If you go to nygunforums.com there is a thread on this tragedy. It appears the shooter and RO were well acquainted making this doubly tragic.

[TurnpikeTed 12]

That's so unfortunate. Prayers out to the RO's family. Such a freak accident.

[raz-0 1,259]

On 11/12/2020 at 12:30 PM, JC_68Westy said:

Thankfully that was not on my list of must buy guns. It has been place on the list of never buy guns.

The gun is intended to be carried cocked and locked. Which would prevent discharge if dropped. 

This is a confluence of the gun design and USPSA rules for production along with poor gun handling. 

[JC_68Westy 1,024]

Just now, raz-0 said:

The gun is intended to be carried cocked and locked. Which would prevent discharge if dropped. 

This is a confluence of the gun design and USPSA rules for production along with poor gun handling. 

I get what you are saying, but why would a DA/SA gun ever be carried cocked and locked?

[raz-0 1,259]

Just now, JC_68Westy said:

I get what you are saying, but why would a DA/SA gun ever be carried cocked and locked?

Because SA is sweet and DA is intended for restrike capability? If the gun doesn't have a decocker, it was likely intended to be carried cocked and locked. Anything that requires you to pull the trigger on a loaded chamber while fiddling with shit in order to holster it was likely meant not to be holstered in that condition. Just saying. 

 

[JC_68Westy 1,024]

16 minutes ago, raz-0 said:

Because SA is sweet and DA is intended for restrike capability? If the gun doesn't have a decocker, it was likely intended to be carried cocked and locked. Anything that requires you to pull the trigger on a loaded chamber while fiddling with shit in order to holster it was likely meant not to be holstered in that condition. Just saying. 

 

I am not familiar with the particular gun and have never handled a DA/SA that did not have a de-cocker. I have plenty of DA/SA that all have de-cockers. I also have plenty of SA guns that are carried cocked and locked. It seems like a dangerous design that I wouldn't buy, just not something that makes a lot of sense for me.

[raz-0 1,259]

1 minute ago, JC_68Westy said:

I am not familiar with the particular gun and have never handled a DA/SA that did not have a de-cocker. I have plenty of DA/SA that all have de-cockers. I also have plenty of SA guns that are carried cocked and locked. It seems like a dangerous design that I wouldn't buy, just not something that makes a lot of sense for me.

There's nothing dangerous about it if you just use it as intended. Cocked and locked. Treat it like an SA gun. Then if something goes click instead of boom, you can pull the trigger a second time. Bonus. IF you want to carry decocked, you get one of the models with a decocker. 

[Shepherd9 215]

I have the Shadow 2, DA/SA and no de-cocker.  It is by far the best shooting handgun I own.

As many have already mentioned, it is designed to be holstered cocked and locked. There is also a half cocked position in which the safety can be selected on.  Under USPSA production rules, apparently this gun has to have the hammer down when holstered.  When the hammer is down, the safety cannot be selected on and the hammer is resting on the firing pin.

I have no idea why their rules are such for this model and I don't shoot USPSA so perhaps others could shed some light on this.  In the 3 Gun matches I have participated in I carry with the hammer cocked and safety on.  It is an amazing gun, and as safe as any other when used correctly.  And as with any firearm, its solid, safe handling practices when drawing and holstering that matter.

This incident is just terribly tragic.  I cannot imagine the pain this family and individual are going through.  

 

[Krdshrk 3,877]

1 hour ago, raz-0 said:

The gun is intended to be carried cocked and locked. Which would prevent discharge if dropped. 

This is a confluence of the gun design and USPSA rules for production along with poor gun handling. 

Correct. Basically "Gaming" the system for production rules with a DA/SA gun that's really meant for SA - for like Limited/Limited 10 class.

28 minutes ago, JC_68Westy said:

I am not familiar with the particular gun and have never handled a DA/SA that did not have a de-cocker. I have plenty of DA/SA that all have de-cockers. I also have plenty of SA guns that are carried cocked and locked. It seems like a dangerous design that I wouldn't buy, just not something that makes a lot of sense for me.

There are CZ's and Tanfos are DA/SA without decockers.

 

[Cheflife15 455]

Im new to shooting but in a brief lesson with mr Stu he explained holstering slowly while looking at where your hand is. When you're holstering you have all the time in the world because whatever threat is gone. 

How is the scoring for the sports? Does the clock stop after its holstered?

[Krdshrk 3,877]

6 minutes ago, Cheflife15 said:

How is the scoring for the sports? Does the clock stop after its holstered?

Last shot.  There's no rushing for safety.

[YankeeSC 1,204]

34 minutes ago, Krdshrk said:

Last shot.  There's no rushing for safety.

... plus the firearm is first made safe before holstering - drop the mag and clear any round from the chamber - then show the RO it's safe.

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

7 hours ago, Cheflife15 said:

Im new to shooting but in a brief lesson with mr Stu he explained holstering slowly while looking at where your hand is. When you're holstering you have all the time in the world because whatever threat is gone. 

How is the scoring for the sports? Does the clock stop after its holstered?

This incident, as I have read so far, was on the load and make ready portion of the stage. The clock has not started yet. There is no reason at all to rush the holstering of the gun. I have not seen anything to indicate it was rushed, only that it was fumbled. I do not know what holster was being used, but if it was one of the uber-gamer holsters that only minimalistically secure the gun I can see this happening easily. I do not know. I was not there.

[PK90 3,570]

Moral, don't drop any gun.

The gun or rules are not at fault, the shooter is.

[wreckless 34]

Safety first and Speed kills. Two things to remember on the range...

[1LtCAP 4,262]

while tragic, i hate to say it.....but considering that the guy most likely was not rushing to holster.....this almost sounds like he got complacent in his actions, which sadly resulted in this.

 

 i watched a good friend almost kill himself on a cessna due to complacency......i've always said "complacency kills. "

 

not trying to be a jerk.

[W2MC 1,699]

Complacency kills....but a gun shouldn't go off if dropped, either.

 

[Cheflife15 455]

3 minutes ago, W2MC said:

Complacency kills....but a gun shouldn't go off if dropped, either.

 

This also. I was told rather confidently from the ffl that i bought my sp01 and shadow from that dropping it shouldn't make it go off. I think theres videos of stress tests on youtube too im in not mistaken. 

[1LtCAP 4,262]

1 hour ago, W2MC said:

Complacency kills....but a gun shouldn't go off if dropped, either.

 

i've been thinking that, and wondering why the firing pin block would be removed