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It's not quite that simple Zeke. You can't turn someone's comfort level with a topic that has such dire consequences, whether you happen to run afoul of either the law or safety, into a mere soundbite. He knows if the law changes he will comply - it is his decision and nothing is wrong with that. He doesn't want to spend money twice to buy new mags, so he is looking ahead. Good for him. StuckinNJ's choices are not yours or mine to make - as in the end, he is taking responsibility for them. They may not be the choices you or I would make, and again that OK. At the end of the day he is literally our brother in arms - a gun owner, a shooter, a fellow community/forum member, an American, a proponent of the 2A who gives to the cause by his very act of even owning a gun. He is a gun owner who comfortable doing what he's doing. He has made his decision on how he will proceed following a personal cost/benefit analysis. His decision should be respected - even if you disagree. Period. Full stop. Respectful and persuasive discussion or debate and conversation is one thing. To tell him to just sell his guns and find a new hobby because his choices differ from anyone else's is total bullshit.

Tyrone was having trouble in school; his teacher was always yelling at him, "You're driving me crazy, Tyrone; can't you learn anything? One day Tyrone's mother came to school to see how he was doing. The teacher told her honestly that her son was simply a disaster, getting very low marks, and that she had never had such an unmotivated and ignorant boy in her entire teaching career. Tyrone's mom, shocked at the feedback, withdrew her son from school and moved out of Detroit, relocating to Cleveland. 25 years later, the teacher was diagnosed with irreversible cardiac disease. Her doctors all strongly advised her to have open heart surgery, which only one surgeon at the Cleveland Clinic could perform. Left with no other options, the teacher decided to have the operation, which was remarkably successful. When she opened her eyes after the surgery she saw the handsome young doctor who headed her surgical team smiling down at her. She wanted to thank him, but could not talk. Her face started to turn blue, she raised her hand, trying to tell him something, but quickly died. The doctor was shocked, wondering what went wrong so suddenly. When the doctor turned around to leave the room, he saw Tyrone, now a janitor at the Clinic, had unplugged the life-support equipment in order to plug in his vacuum cleaner. > If you thought that Tyrone had become a heart-surgeon, there is a high likelihood that you voted for Hillary.

Diblasio ia a communist scumbag. He has destroyed NY. He hates the cops. His tenure can't end fast enough

There are times, even as a staunch Second Amendment Patriot & VP of NJ's busiest 2A group, I have to admit that not EVERYBODY should have a gun. THIS is one of those times...........

2 things: 1. Rtsp is a fine place to visit, but they're pricing is utterly outrageous. Lwrc is having a summer sale on that rifle which brings it to the $1200 mark roughly. I've seen it for under 1k online Of course online are not nj compliant, so the $1200 or so mark with no nj hassle is worth it. $1700 is a rip-off these days. 2. Lwrc makes the finest rifles in the world. Better than lmt, better than knights armament. That's right I said it. Their bcg is a single piece of metal. I've never seen anything like it. No staking of the gas key because it's part of the carrier. Their fluted barrels are amazing as well. Rated for something stupid like 40k rounds. They make nearly all parts in house, their fit and finish is unmatched and the service is impeccable. Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

I would need a serious amount more PPE before shooting that POS. Want fireballs? Try a short barrel 357 MAG 125 grain JHP loaded with Hodgdon H-110. Kick ass fireballs.

I might have to give that a try. Thanks.

Brandishing isn't stupid if done correctly. Some consider open carry "brandishing"! There's a fine line when employing the "art of brandishing" to control a situation long enough to make an exit w/o having to pop the initial aggressor. These two have a history that's well documented, so in this case the victim fired in self-defense. More on the art of brandishing & when/how to properly deploy it to de-escalate a situation. Of particulat interest to women who purse carry: "I've been teaching the California, UT, AZ, FL, CCWs for many years and as you know, most states do allow for a legal form of brandishing. Utah’s law states that it can be done if the person reasonably believes the action to be necessary in compliance with Section 76-2-402 (Use of force) with the purpose to prevent another’s use of unlawful force. California’s law states that brandishing may be done if the person reasonably believes you or another person is to suffer imminent harm, and you fight back with no more force than is reasonably necessary to defend against that danger. While I absolutely agree with you that the law requires that it never be done in a fight or quarrel unless you’ve done everything reasonable to de-escalate, I wouldn’t say that it should “never” be done. I always tell me students that it’s a dangerous game to play because once you introduce the gun into the conversation, the attacker can try and call your bluff and you have to be willing to use it if the situation escalates. Then you have all the concerns of witnesses misunderstanding the threat like you have mentioned. Where some instructors get into trouble- and I’m not suggesting this is what you meant- is when they tell students that the gun should never come unholstered until they’ve decided to shoot. I always include drills where we clear the shirt to access or even draw from the holster, but don’t shoot. I don’t want it ingrained within them to shoot every time the gun is gripped or drawn. For example, a man with a machete is yelling at me from across the street, starting to walk toward me, and saying he’s going to chop me up. He’s about 35 feet away and outside of the “21-foot rule”. Although not a hard and fast rule, many would argue that the threat isn’t imminent enough yet to justify pulling the trigger. You better believe however that I’m going to draw my firearm in a “defensive display” and give the attacker demands as I back up and look for cover and/or an escape route. This of course would be considered brandishing, but in a legal manner. I can also envision a situation where a woman is walking late at night and alone through a parking lot to her car. She notices that she’s being followed by a shady character and there’s no reasonable explanation why this person is following her (i.e. there’s no other cars in the lot, it’s not a shortcut to anywhere, etc.). She first makes eye contact to let him know she’s not an easy target, then tries to engage in conversation by asking if he’s lost. He keeps coming straight toward her, picking us his pace. She finds her vehicle or a cement pillar to place between them and she walks a circle around it, but he obviously and deliberately follows her move. I would first recommend a less-lethal option like a Taser. If she doesn’t have one however, she then accesses the gun compartment of her purse and places her hand on the gun. At this point, she’s getting behind the time curve as he tries to close the distance between them. She greatly fears she’s about to become a victim of a forcible felony or is about to suffer serious bodily injury because of a size and strength disparity. She can yell at him forcefully to get back. If this doesn’t work however, it’s reasonable to assume in her situation that anyone who continues an advance is about to commit a serious crime. This is a good example of when informing the attacker that she has a gun and/or displaying it is the last best option short of actually firing the gun in self-defense. Shooting an unarmed attacker can be a very difficult decision, but the decision should quickly become clear once the gun is displayed or the attacker is informed she has one. The ball is in his court. If the situation escalates and he continues the approach instead of turning and running, then she must be willing to use the gun. Like you had mentioned, all other options have been exhausted and a person must first be justified in presenting the gun in the first place. While I don’t have exact stats, it’s understood that a good portion of such dangerous conflicts are avoided just by the presence of the gun. While I believe the main thrust and intent of your article was regarding those wanting to engage in fighting, I just wanted to insert my opinion that in certain situations, brandishing against an armed or even an unarmed attacker can be an effective and legal manner to avoid a lethal conflict, just short of pulling the trigger. I would also always call the police right after. In California, many sheriffs require the CCW holder to inform them of an incident where they draw their weapon. Some criminals have the audacity to even call the police on the victim after a botched attack to report a brandishing. It’s always a good idea to let the police know right away so they can establish who the true victim is. Thanks for your great articles Luke. I share them a lot with my students."

My point was proven yesterday when I got back to work. Captain put out a memo not about maintaining vigilance and to be careful above all else but rather stating his displeasure with the increase in response time( they have gone down post coverages the past couple months, won't get cars repaired and don't bring in extra cops when events are going on) and to make sure all events are called over the radio to be entered into CADS and to make sure our memo books are up to date. That's the important shit.

Yeah, smart Ray. Let's have a fellow shooter sell his guns because he doesn't want to break the law and he isn't as "radical" as you are. You are always talking about eating our own, but you have the biggest fork out there. Jesus Christ. Every gun owner has their limit on what they are comfortable doing. Not every gun owner has the 2A as their top political priority. Some gun owners just like to shoot. They don't care if they have 10, 15, 30 rounds in their mag. They aren't political. But they are still exercising their 2A rights. Who are you to tell them they should get rid of their guns. That's playing right into the Antis hands. He isn't taking anything away from you. Hes not turning in your mags. He's just not comfortable risking his money or freedom on keeping items made illegal by bad laws. Like it or not, until you have your revolution, the laws still apply. You don't have to agree with them, but you have to suffer the consequences if you are caught violating them. StuckinNJ has every RIGHT to follow what he thinks is the correct course of action for him, no matter how much you tell him he's wrong. That's the very definition of liberty in practice. Hes doing his part. He's a gun owner. He's a shooter. Not everyone can, or is willing, to go full on "Cold dead hands". That doesn't make their membership any less important in the 2A fight than anyone else's. We need every gun owner we can get right now. Don't isolate one because they are uncomfortable risking what they have. More importantly, don't turn a lawful gun owner into a spokesman the antis by being a dickhead. That's shortsighted and stupid.

If it isn't worth it to you, then just sell your guns and find another hobby. I'm not only trying to save MY rights, but also trying to save my kids rights. And their kids. And so on.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/hLpE1Pa8vvI?autoplay=1&autohide=1&showinfo=0&iv_load_policy=3&rel=0 https://www.youtube.com/embed/hLpE1Pa8vvI?autoplay=1&autohide=1&showinfo=0&iv_load_policy=3&rel=0 OK, how do you attach a youtube video so it just shows up, it was easy to do on the old board. Am I missing how, or is it just not possible?

I know the topic of pros/cons of submitting a NJ permit to possess application knowing that rejection will certainly follow has been discussed ad nauseum, but I raise it again out of a sense of ever increasing frustration to see if there are any fresh ideas as to potential reasons to submit. As far as I can tell nothing has ever come of a concerted effort to file applications and I am quite familiar with the arguments against -- particularly the alleged potential problems created by having to report the denial on future FID or out of state CCW or other firearms applications. Our local Police chief -- who is not rabidly anti-gun as far as I can tell and runs a department that is relatively friendly and helpful when it comes to processing FID cards and pistol purchase permits -- has apparently said (I get this second hand) that he has talked to all the local Bergen county judges and all have clearly said they will never approve an application other than retired police and he doesn't want to waste his time, and also opined that a denial will create problems for future applications. Here are my thoughts as to reasons why to submit: 1. It is the right thing to do. It certainly will be futile, at least in the near term, but I feel that remaining silent and acquiescing is just wrong. If a town passed an ordinance that no new churches or synagogues could be built, and threatened anyone who filed for a building permit for a church with the inability to ever obtain a permit for their personal residence, would people just meekly go along? It is astounding that everyone swallows the absurd threat that a CCW denial based solely on the state's arbitrary and capricious justifiable need standard rather than any personal fault could ever be used for a future denial of another permit. I was just at a private Utah CCW class attended by successful, prominent people -- doctors, lawyers, business professionals -- and it struck me how absurd it is that we are all going through this ass backwards process of applying for a permit from Utah in the hope that national carry reciprocity will somehow help us here (and I seriously doubt that it will). Why don't we also speak up? Our rights are being trampled, we are cowed by literal threats from our local officials, and we all bend over and take. 2. It will make a statement, which just might have an impact. Will Loretta Weinberg or any of the other anti-gun politicians change their anti-gun views? No. But if enough people apply, if enough people make some noise, and if word gets out it may, over time, add one small point of leverage that could make a difference. I have no hope of an organized state wide effort developing, but I am very strongly considering applyinh on my own. I really am not concerned about any impact on future applications. Any thoughts, new or rehashed, would be welcome.

Got that right. Use to have a 3" Colt Lawman II. Factory 357 or 38 +P would send out a fireball 3 feet in diameter. I figure if you missed the target, you'd burn his facial hair off and blind him a spell. Whadda boom! [emoji6] Miss that puppy. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

What's the phone number? I'd like to see if I can find out the status of my permits. It's been much longer than normal.

The same pinned 15 round mags can be re pinned to 10 if that ever happens. Your all doom and gloom just like I heard for 8 years Obamas coming for our guns....never happened, cross that bridge when you get there. It kind of seems you already came to the thread with your mind made up.

Exactly.

When mine were taking awhile (state police barracks in Perryville), I called Trenton directly. Got a very helpful guy on the phone, told me exactly where it was in the process, exactly when I would get it, and told me if I didn't get it by that date to call him back and he'd personally follow up with the barracks. I don't know if they're always that nice, but that guy was (on that particular day anyway). Besides, there's something to be said for "public pressure". Call Trenton!

Does anyone?

I agree. Senseless. Grown men fighting for YEARS over stuff that doesn't matter at all. Ego and the need to be "right" lead both to the point where common sense and judgement flew out the window. All the media will show is guns, guns, guns.

I'm gonna set off like 20 at once for poops and giggles...

Sorry to be a Debbie Downer... but this is the kind of crap that I fully expect the MSM will get a hold of and play it to DEATH... making ALL gun owners look bad because of these 2 yoyos and their silly-ass immaturity. Complete imbeciles! But make no mistake, WE pay the price for their stupidity.

they had some kind of major computer crash and have been busy trying to get that resolved. hopefully all is well.

Junk..... Get one of these..... http://www.davisnet.com/solution/vantage-pro2/ Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

It's the moonshine I tell ya! Makes ya like sum dang superman. I saw a catfish once take a sip and it kicked the hell out of all the minnow bait. It was a blood bath I tell ya! [emoji23] Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

See you then.

I'm curious how anyone is assured it's 10. Vs say another arbitrary number like 7? Or 6 or 1. Point being, it ain't happened. It's not even on the table! And it should not be if we," we are the state", do are due diligence. But we digress. I understand the CZ is a fine pistol. I don't believe you can go wrong purchasing that firearm.

I'm furious for you, 6 to 8 weeks. They have the faulty one, why not ship you a working one.?? At least until there done fixing original.

Roll call updated page 1 post 1 looking around 17 ish @voyager9? Its next fri, it's cmon out and get added to the list!

my new signature!!!!

All State Lawmakers that voted or vote Yes to Passing ”no issue” or “may issue” gun carry permit laws Violate 18 U.S. Code § 241 - Conspiracy against rights If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same; or If two or more persons go in disguise on the highway, or on the premises of another, with intent to prevent or hinder his free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege so secured— They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death. Oppress (verb) to burden with cruel or unjust impositions or restraints; subject to aburdensome or harsh exercise of authority or power: The 2nd Amendment applies to all levels of government and applies to an individual’s right to keep and bear arms. Bear (verb) To possess or carry McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 742 (2010), is a landmark[1]decision of the Supreme Court of the United States that found that the right of an individual to "keep and bear arms" as protected under the Second Amendment is incorporated by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment against the states. On June 28, 2010, the Supreme Court, in a 5–4 decision, reversed the Seventh Circuit's decision, holding that the Second Amendment was incorporated under the Fourteenth Amendment thus protecting those rights from infringement by local governments. This means that the Second Amendment, per the McDonald v. Chicago (2010) ruling from the U.S. Supreme Court, is a constitutional right that also restricts state and local governments from infringing on our right to keep and bear arms. NJ State Police Oath of Office I, ____________________________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the State of New Jersey; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same and to the Governments established in the United States and in this State, under the Authority of the people; and that I will faithfully, impartially and justly perform all the duties of the office of ______________________________________________________________________ according to the best of my ability, and that I will not use my office to grant preferential treatment, nor to seek personal gain, favor, or advantage not available to the general public, (so help me, God*). This means that a NJ state police officer shall support the Constitution of the United States and the rights guaranteed within of his fellow US citizens, including their Constitutional 2nd amendment right to keep and bear arms. There is no excuse for any officer to deny a non-criminal, law abiding citizen the paperwork and/or signature required to obtain a permit to carry their arms in public for lawful use. This is every US citizen’s constitutional right. 2nd Ammendment Rights Violation Proof.pdf

He skipped swearing in New NYPD officers to pack for this trip.............i hope his plane crashes.

The older guy brandished and the other guy opened up on him. In NJ, the shooter is toast since he could have retreated in perfect safety. That said, it goes to show how stupid brandishing is.

3 weeks and 2 days. Toms River PD. they are great actually. its just silly this whole process that NJ created. but alas i will remain optimistic that NJ will joint the rest of the country one day - this nonsense cant last forever.

2 years ago I got a GREAT deal with 2x 18rnd mags. I had those shipped over to Steve who didn't charge an arm and a leg for the pinning. A few months later i stumbled across another good deal for 10 round mags for this gun bought 4 of those. Since I only shoot this at the range, the 10 rounders really don't bother me. I honestly don't see how that impedes my 2A rights or those of my kids. Ultimately, It's your money and your decision, get the 10 if that makes sense to you. I don't think that your specific purchase will be used as an example to justify reducing the mag capacity in NJ.

Amazon, eBay images held to ‘ransom’ by Photobucket http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/technology/amazon-ebay-images-held-to-ransom-by-photobucket/news-story/f5b3efdaa1dfd7cb5c9a62e6ec2520c6

It has nothing to do with how political I am. I'm just as upset about our restrictions as anyone else but I'm not gonna fight it by illegally possessing mags over 15. I fight the best I can by donating to 2A groups here as well as voting. I don't understand what my pistol mags have to do with your children's rights. And alienating any shooter, or as you put it, pushing one to quit the hobby entirely, will only hurt your little revolution. Pretty crazy how I post one simple question and quickly get attacked by some anonymous nut job for trying to keep my mags at 15

Thanks to all for the discussion and recommendations!

The downsides to a Mini 14 are they are less accurate than ARs and they don't have the accessory availability. Ballistics are all the same. A Mini 14 is really a modern version of the M1 carbine. I would not feel unarmed with a Mini 14 (much better armed than with a 410 btw) but if I had a choice I'd take an AR/M16/M4 into a fight. In my case, it's because I've used them for nearly 50 years and have used them in serious social situations. They've always worked for me. Many of the stories you hear about the failures of the 5.56 and the AR design are just that, stories.

Anything you shoot indoors that is generally considered to be an acceptable self defense round will penetrate CONUS construction materials. Your safe backstop in a self defense shooting is the bad guy. If you miss, the round will go and penetrate whatever it hits - that's true for rifle, shotgun, and pistol ammo. FBI, ATF, and DEA Studies show that 5.56/.223 designed for indoor use (ex: Fed TRU 62gr soft nose) have less potential to seriously injure or kill than just about any other platform - after penetrating most modern US construction. That's not to say the projectile is incapable of killing someone after going through a wall, but it will have less energy and mass. Do your research. As far as Mini-14 v AR, there's a reason that very few people tasked with the possibility of shooting people as a job description carry an AR of some type vs a Mini. Again, due diligence and proper research will keep you informed and happy with your purchase.

Not sure I read "self preserveation" in the constitution. Life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. One would think "Life" covers that, but we can't get a court to agree. Driver's licenses/car registrations are regulated by the states. Even tho we drive them over state lines, but there is a specific reciprocal agreement to accept DLs and Registrations from another state. Temporarily. Longer than 30 days you must get local docs and pay. It is a combo of power and money. The 10th gives those powers that aren't specifically given to the Feds to the states. What's funny is that nobody continues the text. "Or to the people" which is to say that any overreach by the state, lets say like like not recognizing the NFA process, should be challenged because the RTKABA is specifically enumerated in the constitution. Right after the first amendment as a sentinel. Yet we all cower at the power of some idiot civil servants. I'm not talking armed revolution. I'm talking getting off our asses and making our voices heard at the ballot box. We have that option. The framers didn't. We insult their memory and sacrifice by sitting on our hands and not voting. They'd be shooting by now because they were subjects and had no choice. We do. Jews during Passover Seder eat bitter herbs and unleavened bread to remind them that they were packing to leave bondage when the first Passover happened. No time to make a proper meal. Why the seeming non sequitur? Because we as free men and women should have something to remind us of what happened two centuries plus 41 years ago yesterday. That those that gave everything to secure that freedom knew that it needed to be protected. Hey knew the bitter taste of subjugation, they also knew the penchant for human beings to grow complacent with pleasurable distractions. They wrote a document that they thought—hoped, would consider that human failing. Yet by that very complacency, we've abdicated quite a few precious rights. And now, when that horse is way out of the barn, we try to claw back. Tough row to hoe. We need some reminder of that bitterness, because the water is starting to boil. We frogs are starting to sweat.

Uhh. Virtual state of the Union.

Pretty cool

Rock and roll Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

I know a guy that used to live in Delaware, this table from Wikipedia is accurate.

I tried to buy from you directly! Right before I ordered online you said you couldn't get them. I am very impulsive and when I get an idea in my head I need to find one ASAP!

All I can think of is: