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LIAR!!!! Again I say: LIAR!!! @Mrs.Zeke ? --- you might want to take care of this problem - this egregious spread of "fake news" to the deficit of your own reputation. Scandalous!

You are speaking from your ass. Having had a green Veridian laser on your handy-dandy Beretta PCC makes you no more of an authority on this topic than owning a guitar makes you Jimmi Hendrix. The KISS concept is applicable to a great many things and I actually am a subscriber - however it needs to be taken in context. Blindly following KISS as an absolute would having you riding a BMX bike in the Tour De France.

This is what you need to help you get a 50yd zero @ 25 yds This will get you close till you can do a 50 yd zero These targets are downloadable. http://www.arma-dynamics.com/red-dot-zero-targets.html

You can just as easily kill someone with a shot to the leg...Just need to hit an artery. Lethal force is lethal force. Besides, if I’m in a situation that requires me to shoot, I’m aiming for whatever part of them gets me a hit and incapacitates them, whether that’s center mass or their forehead.

The one nice thing about NJ is that you can move just about anywhere and improve your life dramatically.

A shot of silicone spray on the spiral balances after the grease gets hard works wonders....

Let's put one argument here in proper context. You are not shooting to kill. You are not shooting to wound. You are shooting to stop. If you shoot and miss and the bad guy throws up his hands and gives up or runs away you've stopped him. If he gets shot in the medulla oblongata he stops. The basic premise of laws allowing you to use lethal force are based on the concept the bad guy is doing something so bad they need to be stopped. What they are doing is so bad it doesn't make a difference if the bad guy lives or dies, they have to be stopped. That's it.

I agree. However, most people mount lasers as a crutch thinking it will compensate for poor sighting and trigger control.

I’ll reiterate. If it means saving my family, so be it. Not for nothing but I’ve had colleagues try to stop an active shooter where 6 rounds or more did not stop them. Chances are, they may be on drugs, heavily clothing, or over weight among other things. You may not have a chance to put another round into the perp. One shot one kill. Nothing you or anyone says will deter me from doing so. I may die, go to jail, etc. But my family, including my dog, will be alive. I’ll consider it a job well done if that is the outcome. I’m fine meeting my maker under those conditions. As for getting sued, you most likely will no matter what. In the old days, you were supported and not sued for defending yourself. They said drag the idiot all the way into the window and put a knife in their hand and the LE would do the rest. Times have changed and every man for themselves. Thanks to the sheister lawyers and judges out there that let that happen. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wheres the "this is not how any of this works" meme? gfl, if you dont mind, show me just 1 case study that would substantiate your concern.

Point of order here my friend. Be sure you understand what “ deadly force use” means. There is no “ sorta deadly, could have been less deadly “ argument.

this is a ridiculous argument... a laser is the same as any other sighting system.. they could hypothetically make the same argument about sights... red dots.. scopes.. etc.. as HE stated..a laser has a place... I don't personally use one... but could see the value.. sometimes when shooting from an awkward position where its impossible to get behind the sights is another potential use..

While I agree that Skinner peep sights are a big improvement, I'd like to add that lever actions are basically minute of squirrel or minute of deer guns. A lever gun is generally regarded as a working gun or hunting gun. Don't get me wrong, I love lever actions, I have a very nice Marlin 39D that I very much enjoy shooting with open sights. In fact, it's the only gun with stock open sights that I can shoot half way decent with my less than 20-20 vision, It's a great gun for plinking, but not exactly a precision instrument. Since we are talking about rimfire rifles and carbines, I don't see Peel eating squirrel or possum, so maybe a bolt action is a better choice. She seems very intent on hitting the x ring every time. This is not to say that a lever 22lr is not capable of making ragged holes, I just happen to think that a bolt gun would be a better choice for a first 22 than anything else. But that's just my opinion.

BAN HIM for correcting a mod!

For a bolt without a break the bank price and adjustable stock and trigger, Ruger American Rimfire,

Overly complicated? They are BUIS. They go up and they go down. Front adjusts elevation and rear does windage. Rear has small and large same plane aperture. They have the exact same capabilities of the MBUS PRO.

TL;DR: Suggest a quality, accurate, short-stock, bolt action .22 that won't necessarily break the bank. So, I recently had the pleasure of taking a fairly new (to rifles) shooter out to test some of my rimfires. She did quite well with them, but they were a bit of a challenge for her due to a few factors. She is about 10 inches shorter than I am, and this presented challenges with getting a proper, consistent cheek weld and proper sight picture through the scopes on most of my rifles. All of these rifles have fixed wood stocks, and being 6'2", I have never been too concerned with the length. Ex-girlfriends who were 5'6"/5'7" were able to use the rifles, but they may have been the lower limit to who can use a full length rifle stock comfortably. Based on discussions with this shooter, I feel like what she is looking for is something: -With an accurate heavy barrel - or at least heavier sporter barrel. She seems interested in accuracy at 50-100 yards with a rimfire, most likely in .22LR. -She seems to like a bolt action very much - the act of cycling the action and the actual solid feel of the action/bolt. -She needs something that has a short/youth stock, something where replacement short stocks are available to fit, something which could be cut down to fit her better (without Bubba-ing it up), or something with a kind of adjustable stock where it allows for short length of pull. -She mentioned her vision being a bit of an issue, so ability to mount a scope with plenty of eye relief and reasonable zoom is likely high on her list - I'm guessing something in a 3-9x40 or 4-12x40 range would serve her well, but that's a whole other discussion. -She had mentioned weight as a small issue, however, I don't know that she will be shooting while standing or otherwise unsupported that often, and on a bench, a bipod or bags could support the rifle. I also don't expect the rifle to be carried in the field or really, for any long distances. -Cost is always an issue for everyone, so she was questioning if it would be better to get a $200-500 rifle now, or if saving up for longer and getting something more expensive and better later on would be a better move. There are plenty of used, quality rifles out there - but I'm not sure how many target/match grade rifles are youth models, or can be adapted to shorter LoP. I also suspect a year or two of extra practice with a cheaper rifle before getting the better one would be better than not having anything. -She doesn't want to spend boatloads of money on match ammo, but she won't be running terrible bulk ammo, either. Her preferred ammo seemed to work quite well in my rifles, but rimfires are always ammo sensitive. Her favorite rifle of the day was a Savage 93R17TR, a .17 HMR rifle wearing a Nikon Buckmasters 4.5-14x40 scope and a bipod, stock Accutrigger set to the lowest setting it would go to. She especially liked the extra recoil and noise of the rifle over .22s (especially subsonics), but the downside of increased ammo cost and lack of true target/match ammo was a factor. Her second-favorite was a Savage Mark II BRJ .22 LR rifle wearing a SWFA 16x42 SS scope, bipod, DIP bottom metal, and Apachee trigger set to ~1-1.5lb pull. Her third favorite was a Marlin XT-22 .22 LR wearing a Nikon Prostaff Rimfire 4-12x40 scope and bipod, in a Boyds SS Evolution stock, stock trigger set to the lowest setting it would go to. So, after all that, any ideas what she should look at? I was going to tell her to look at a Savage Mark II FV, and then find a youth stock or order a shorter Boyd's stock, but Boyd's only makes 1/2" shorter custom stocks, so she would need one further cut down if she went that route. I know a lot of people like the CZ 455 as well, but I know little about it. To be honest, a lot of even the cheap $200 rifles out there today are plenty accurate, and would likely serve her well for years to come. I know there are a lot of used fairly inexpensive Remingtons out there; I dunno if modifying them would be a good idea, but 504T, 521T, 513T, 511-x, 541s, 540xr are all on a list I have of rifles I want to look into and I've seen some of those for under $500 used on gunbroker. I believe the Marlin 2000L was a youth-oriented target rifle, but I couldn't find pricing on them when I looked a while back. There are also old used Anschutz rifles I've seen in the $600-900 range which might work very well, other than the stock. And then there are the very expensive models, where you're looking at $1k+ used/new, like a Rem 40x, Winchester 52 target, Kimber 82, most Anschutzs, where she might be able to find an aftermarket stock (so as not to destroy part of the investment, though this adds even more to the cost) Thoughts?

That is correct, you also have to use bullets that are HP/soft-point and weigh less than 80 grains. The rifle permit that you are asking about has nothing to do with firearms laws; It is a hunting permit. Basically just an added expense if you already have a rifle hunting license from another state. Keep in mind that semi-auto rifles cannot be used for PA big game hunting. Also keep in mind; while PA is a great state to hunt in, you'd be hard pressed to find a state that has a greater potential for quantitative success than NJ.

If you already have a hunting licence from another state which states you can hunt with both shotgun and rifle, you can renew your licence in Nj they will issue you a CID number for shotgun, bow and rifle along with trapping, but you have to buy the rifle, bow and trapping permits in addition. Rifle permit is valid from June to June I’m not sure about semi rifles in Nj for hunting, but I know you don’t have to disclose or register your rifle for licence.

Hi James- as long as you take the rifle portion of the hunter's safety course, and I believe it is now given with the shotgun section, you will be able to obtain a rifle permit when you purchase your license.

You can hunt coyotes and fox along with other small game with certain restrictions centerfire or rimefire under 25 caliber With muzzleloader you can hunt big game or small game depending on season.

35/35.

trijicon ordered.. 10% off with Optics planet and I got a free $50 gift card or something.. that I will be using for the mount..

That SAKO mentioned sounds very interesting. Remington Model 34 is one of the most accurate rimfires for the price due to the lifter system. Get the NRA model with diopter sights. They can be found for under $400. My kids have no problem firing it. The younger one is still under 5'0. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

^^^ This The RAR Rimfire is an excellent rifle and it will not break the bank. It also comes in a reconfigurable stock to adjust length of pull to accommodate shooters of variable stature. It even comes in a Talo Muddy Girl.

also @Purple Patrick ... colored case hardened and all-weather all the things!!! (seriously, are they going to do either to the single shot rifle and shotgun lines? please find out as I still haven't done that order yet, and if they are I want to know if I should hold off.)

Shout outs Peel... They are called shout outs.

“You only need one rifle” said NO ONE EVER

Quarter inch by three inch nylon bolt from HD/Lowes. Cut the un-threaded bolt section to size and install,two bucks.

I replaced mine with a #10 grade 8 socket head cap screw, the unthreaded section 30 years ago.

Ruger 10/22 with a small scope. My 10/22 is so darn light... My Henry Lever Action is fun, but I have a hard time seeing the front sight too (My vision's worse than Mrs. Peel's), and it's HEAVY.

well, since it's YOU... you know we can hit up SCFGPA one day. Let me know if you can play hookie again for an hour or two during the week and we'll make it happen.

Green DBAL A3.

LOL! I am pretty sure I'm the shooter in this thread! Forgive me, Malice, I was not quick enough on the draw... I was out today but planned to sit down this evening and write a proper "thank you" thread.... first.. thanking you - @Malice4you- for a wonderful day at the Clinton WMA rifle range! I played hooky from work for about 3.5 hours on Friday and it was well worth it. What a blast! (BTW, all... Malice, unlike his scary name, has a very calm, instructional demeanor - I think he should get an instructor's cert. Seriously! He was that good). I also wanted to mention that in the last few weeks, I also enjoyed rifle loans from @BobAand his fiancée, Karen, @Scorpio64, @Zeke & @Mrs.Zeke, @High Exposure... (oops, does it limit the amount of names I can list?) because "Griz" and "RecessedFilter" should be in there too! I really wish some of the people that trash talk about "gun nuts" would meet some of the lovely, generous people that I have over the last couple of years! (And frankly, I've selfishly learned to accept people's generous offers to try firearms - selfishly, it's really saving me a bundle on rentals!) And I'm really glad Malice wrote this up --- because that's a higher level of knowledge and detail than I could have come up with. He nailed all the issues. It's also funny because I was already online (gunsamerica, gunbroker, etc.) trying to get ideas... and I stumbled across that CZ 455 and was already wondering about it (it's a "switch-barrel" rifle that comes with a barrel in .22lr and another barrel in .17hmr). Who would have thunk it? Clever! There's also the Sako Quad (4 barrels and an easier switching mechanism, but def'ly out of my budget at 1000s). So, if anyone has a first-hand opinion of the CZ 455, I'd love to hear it. And yes, so far, in rifles I've tried semi-autos, lever action and bolt action... and I am DEFINITELY gravitating towards a bolt action rifle... (what was that sound?... I think it was some of my AR-15 friends stifling a sob... sorry, guys!)

@matty "Remember, they HATE you and want you dead"

get a henry youth .22 lever action. they also have a single shot bolt action for kids. https://www.henryusa.com/rifles/mini-bolt-youth/ eta: hell I might have to add one of those to my upcoming henry purchases. eta2: if you and your friend are interested, I could bring my current collection of .22lr rifles (all are Henry's, shocking I know) and she could try them out. Scope options are available for them. The youth one I have has a custom cut stock to fit my son, but I have the original length stock as well. I need an "excuse" to get out to EFGA anyways.

50 yard zero for an AR all day long.. as stated.. 50 and 200 intersect.. and my typical AR shooting is inside 200 yards... so the amount of adjustment is relatively minimal..

The data is wrong.

All firearms have a bore line/sight line discrepancy - often referred to as “mechanical offset” - and if you are using them for self defense, you should understand that. My stock Glocks with standard height sights it is just a bit over .5”, on the Glocks with suppressor height sights and mini RDS mounted, it’s a bit higher still. •••Again, the below commentary is for red dot shooting with “combat” accuracy standards - not precision bullseye or “sniping”••• Barms, It ain’t a mindfuck unless you think about it the way you are thinking about it. The bullet doesn’t rise. Due to the angle of the barrel in relation to the sights, it has a trajectory - a flight path that will intersect your line of sight two times: once on the way up, and once on the way down. That’s the simplest way to think about it. Except for those two times, the bullet will never, ever, ever, hit your exact point of aim. It will always be a little high or a little low. You need to know the distance for both of your intersection points, your maximum deviation over the line of sight and at what distance you will encounter it, and how fast it drops after the second intersection. This last part lets you figure holdovers for longer ranges - for example, I know with my 50 yard zero that to hit the chest at 300 yards, I need to aim for the neck, at 400 yards, above the eyes. With an appropriate and useful zero distance, your maximum deviations should be minimal at the ranges you are most likely to encounter. This allows you to not have to think about changing your point of aim for as long as possible. This is why I like the 50 yard zero. If I do my part, I will never be more than 1.75” high to 1” low from 25-225 yards*. For all intents and purposes - that is point of aim for social engagements. From 0-25 yards you need to account for mechanical offset regardless of your zero - if you are taking a high percentage shot. The offset will alway be equal to the distance between the center of your bore and your aiming point at 0 yards and decrease logarithmically from there until you reach your first intersection point or zero distance. If I need to take a precision shot inside 25 yards, with my preferred 50 yard zero, I know I have to place my dot about 2.5” above my intended point of impact if I am 7 yards and in. I place the dot about 2” high from 15 yards to 7, and about 1.5” from 15 yards to 25 yards and about an inch at 25 yards. Keeping these numbers in mind, I can estimate anywhere in between if I can gauge my distance to target appropriately. For example - If I am closer to 25 yards, my holdover is closer to 1”, if I am closer to 15 yards away, I hold closer to 1.5” high at 20 yards, I’ll split the difference and try to put my dot 1.25” above my intended point of impact. I also know that I find a 1” group at 25 acceptable so that’s why I only care about offset inside 25 yards. At around 130 yards I will have the maximum height over line of sight at around 1.5”ish. I am fine with a 4” group there, so I don’t change my aiming point. So, say my target is an 8” circle. If I aim dead center of it, I will never be more than: • 2.5”low of center at 0 yards, • Dead in at 50yards • 1.5” high of center at 130 yards • Dead on at 200ish yards • 2” low of center at 250 yards. These are all well inside my acceptable hit area of an 8” circle considering a 4” radius.

SG Ammo is the best. Selway a close second. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

we CAN focus on keeping them out of the hands of criminals.....by going in to the inner cities where the majority of the actual crime happens.......

Smooth out the top inside of the receiver. Casting leaves it rough, impeding smooth operation. Smooth out the bolt edges as well.

You might want to contact a specialist for this stuff as it may contain asbestos.

If you are pro-gun and will vote republican please move to Florida.

Key phrase in the report. If 40% of guns used in crimes are found to be from other states and that is 75% of traceable guns used in crimes. What they are actually saying that they only know where 53.3% of guns used in crimes are from. 46.7 % are untraceable so they have no idea where they are from. So potentially more then half are from in NJ. (I think I did that math right ) That means they have no idea what percentage is actually from out of state. What other report can have a margin of error of 46.7% and still be taken seriously? That is called lies, damn lies and statistics. -Jim

This is what the State is using to try to push neighboring states to change their laws. NJ and Murphy are blaming PA and other nearby states (as well as a few further away) for all of NJ's gun crime. Not realizing that it's not an inanimate object committing the crime, but NJ criminals.

Yes, that's the case that CA lost (so far) - Duncan vs. Becerra. Highly relevant. The judge, in the Ninth Circuit, Roger Benitez ruled: “Magazines holding more than 10 rounds are “arms.” Proposition 63 burdens the core of the Second Amendment by criminalizing the mere possession of these magazines that are commonly held by law-abiding citizens for defense of self, home, and state. The regulation is neither presumptively legal nor longstanding. The statute hits close to the core of the Second Amendment and is more than a slight burden. When the simple test of Heller is applied, a test that persons of common intelligence can understand, the statute is adjudged an unconstitutional abridgment.” Follow it here - http://michellawyers.com/duncan-v-becerra/

Thanks for the heads up... But still will just take the gun out of state instead of giving NJ $50. So glad I didn’t get into a job that required me to stay here for 25 years. [emoji867]NJ