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Ha! We can’t even get car insurance info attached to MV registration. You have an extremely over inflated idea of the capabilities of N.J. Law Enforcement. Forgetting everything else necessary to act on it - the mere idea that any LEO agencies in N.J. have our shit together enough to look at a list of residents and pick out who has mags that violate this new statute is laughable! Let alone that anyone will sign off that it is enough PC to act on. No way. Just like before, people are going to get hemmed up with mag charges ancillary to other events that they are involved in. These other events will bring more scrutiny on them and their possessions to the point action is taken. In my opinion, these mag cases will be charges that fall into a prosecutor’s lap, not something that will be hunted down. Dont be stupid. Don’t drink and drive. Don’t beat your spouse. Don’t rape each other. Tell you kids to not do stupid shit at school. Do these things and no one will ever give you or your possessions a second glance. Oh, and shut up about it and just live your life.

100% truth Go ahead ladies, whatchu gonna do with them hi-cap 10 rounders now! Assholes

Most of you could over analyze the sharp point of a pin. Just freaking shot me now.

Some members here don’t realize how things really happen in law enforcement.. Police knocking on doors or applying for warrants solely based on non compliant magazines is not happening... There is a manpower issue in most police departments.. Do you think police departments of Newark, Trenton, Camden and so on can be bothered with such petty shit as 15 round magazines???

And since it will inventively come up.. Aiken case.... HE BROKE THE LAW and had his 18 round mags or whatever it was.... NO ONE was out looking for him. The only reason it came up was that his family called the police. This is how I see those 15 round mags becoming an issue, just like how every other sane person here says it would... as part of you doing something else stupid. (domestic disturbance, DWI, warrants, etc.) Is it POSSIBLE that there will be door to door searches and follow ups? Sure.... just like it is possible a meteor will strike earth tomorrow, public disclosure of aliens, zombies, or Hillary admitting she was wrong. IF any of that happens, there will be far more pressing issues to face than dealing with that crime. ... and that's the point.

So both of these are very valuable comments and my question. There have been a number of people who see nothing wrong in mongering and dealing with this "worst case scenario" that may possibly happen. Personally, I find it distasteful that the Pro 2A right in NJ is stooping down to the same level. Screaming that the police is going to go door to door to search for your guns, or comments like "They know what magazines you have" are just as bad as people on the left saying... "Legally owned guns are just waiting to kill someone." or "A legally owned gun is only one incident away from shooting up 500 kids in a school." It's one thing for someone who is just a regular person to say it, and I am 100% fine with simply ignoring those tools, but when you have an attorney saying those things... I draw the line. Once again, if GFH Anthony, or anyone else in NJ said it... would be one thing... but Evan Nappen, AS AN ATTORNEY.... that was over the line. Again, my opinion.

Jason, When the dust settles I'd like to schedule a lunch with you some day. You can leave your Flak Vest at the office

Soooo to be clear...... Assumption is not something the government can search your home for

I wonder how many youngsters here are going to get that reference. I've taken several new shooters to the range this year, but I'm not sure exactly how many. I like Mrs. Peel's quantifiable goals.

I did 6 this year; you have to remember I don’t know that many people who don’t shoot. Any new boyfriend the girls bring home gets a range trip, and I like to think they leave with three things: A firearms safety mindset An appreciation of how much fun target shooting can be An understanding that Dad is really proficient with small arms so maybe they should always be extra respectful of their girlfriend

I cannot wait to get out of this fkn state Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk

I died a little reading this post.

You are a hero to us all.

Food for Thought: every time one of these ridiculous new laws get us sniping and snarking at each other, it's a win for the other side. Remember, generally speaking, we on these forums are all on the same side. We might have different approaches, but I think we all recognize the unconstitutional nature of these laws... worse yet, we recognize the utter futility of their stated purpose: they will do NOTHING to reduce crime... or mass shootings... or casualties. Channel your energy outward, not inward would be my (ever so gentle) suggestion! So, aside from fuming and sniping at each other, what are you all going to DO in 2019? Actually volunteer some hours for the 2A org of your choice? Makes donations? Set yourself a recruiting goal to get new people to the range? I swear, the energy expended on all of these threads - though it does help to clarify ideas and thinking - it could be harnessed so much more effectively!

you forget that you're talking about nj judges that uphold laws in violation of their oaths and the constitution?

Balimore is having a high capacity mag buy back...$25/mag, i gave them to a relative and hes turning them in for some cash....10 magazines...$250.....thanks Gov Hogan.....the least NJ could have done was returned the sales tax I gave them for the legal purchase....

We should all meet at a Star bucks to discuss this face to face... It would help put matters to rest and at the same time drive the liberals fucking nuts. Exactly.. you cant assume no one followed the law and that is not grounds for a search.... I think the NJSP can and should send out "Mail" to all FID holders informing them of the law and the penalties for non compliance but thats about as far as it will go

The fact you had >10 Rd magazines last year or even last week is not probable cause for a warrant. Information for a search warrant had to be fresh. Assuming you complied with the law and disposed of those >10 Rd magazines is the same as assuming you still have them.

It's almost like someone else wrote something similar a few days earlier and was excoriated by his minions for it because they were a complicity monger. Either way I'm happy people are getting the right info now as opposed to the garbage posted earlier on Facebook. Sent from my Moto Z3 Play using Tapatalk

First off, did you read that brietbart article? At the bottom of the article, the author noted "The NJ State Police refused to rule out house-to-house checks. Rather, they responded: “We do not discuss enforcement strategies.” Those are some EXTREME liberties with a denial for comment. Second...https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/12/11/nj-state-police-no-plans-to-go-door-to-door-to-enforce-magazine-ban/amp/ Third, the police may know what guns people own and are capable of accepting a large capacity magazine. They do not know what magazines you own and based on my experience ownership of such type firearm, in and of itself, is not pc for a warrant. There is a big difference between an exigency search for someone who just blew up Boston and murdered several people, including a LEO, and reactionary raids of gun owners not involved in what you speak of.

Did you and Nappen make an example out of them, the same way the state crucifies some people to make an example out of them, like the guy with the 300 year old black powder pistol charged with a felony? Or, did Nappen stop once the heat was off of you and he was not getting any more attention from the media? Nappen may have helped you, and I'm truly happy for you that it turned out well. But, make no mistake, Nappen profited from that case.

Just picked this up. MM outdid themselves.

who's piling on? I think most people here are just trying to understand the reasoning for destroying perfectly good magazines instead of modifying, selling, or sending to a friend. By destroying these magazines we play to what the dems want.

Well, listen... try to understand, many gun owners are simply infuriated by these new laws. So, you come along with a well-intended but kind of light-hearted, tongue-in-cheek post with a very compliant attitude... which is ENTIRELY your right, of course, but I think you unwittingly stepped onto a hornet's nest. Let it go! Roll forward. There's a lot of nice people on here... and very knowledgeable and informative. But people are riled up right now... eh, it happens! Don't take it to heart. And the rest of you... LAY OFF!! There's no need to pile on.

Pretty cool, that's made from a reticulated python which is the longest snake species in the world. In case you were wondering lol.

Ok, so I know where, and can easily get, a 30 round magazine, just drive over to a cabelas in PA. Do I go to jail now without passing go?

You need to figure how much you laid out for the 10 round mags. That's what your time was worth.

He said they were Glock 19 magazines not 17.

I invested in tin foil stocks before this thread started. I am a rich man. Sent from an undisclosed location via Tapatalk

Maybe in your mind... but no, they don’t.

Being honest... never followed it. I definitely saw your picture once or twice, but never heard the facts of the case. But let me ask you this... what exactly was the outcome? You got your guns back. What changed for all NJ gun owners after that? Not being a dick about it, but seriously asking the one directly involved. You do realize that all guns... new, used, privately purchased (up until a few months back), or store bought... all have the same info on the pistol permit? Please tell me where on the permit it shows capacity of magazines that lets NJSP or local L/E know you are in possession of 11-15 rounders. Even if they did... and follow me... YOU HAD 180 DAYS TO GET INTO COMPLIANCE! That is not probable cause. It would be laughed at, unless they had proof you likely still possessed those magazines past this previous Monday.

I dont think pointing out facts would make anyone apologists for the state. We are trying to point out the facts. I think the situation is bad enough without causing undo panic. Making people think the NJSP is about to kick in their door is just plain wrong.

I think this thread has had a good life. Some good info.... Some complete nonsense... but overall good conversation. Results are this. 1. Its illegal to own a magazine that holds more then 10Rnds unless you are LEO, Retired or active. 2. Keeping those now considered High cap mags comes with some risk. 3. There will be NO door to door confiscation (At this point) but when you come in contact with law enforcement for other reasons where a search is warranted you might have a problem if you did not comply with the new law. 4. FFS for those of you who might be on the fence about compliance its a horrible idea to keep those items in the gun safe You just made us targets

So, now you have the five man Firearms Unit checking all these pistol permits, cross referencing what guns have 11 round magazines and over, and setting up for warrants... which would likely never be signed off on. As mentioned, no probable cause... even in NJ (you are talking about people with likely no criminal record, as the got the pistol permit in the first place, and a NICS on top of that). They still have all their other responsibilities... so what takes precedence? Get those dangerous 11-15 rounders off the street (NJSP has had enough heat over questionable issues in the past, so I doubt they will even ask for a warrant that questionable) or keep doing their original job? Maybe let’s have local departments handle it? For towns like Deal, where they may have the time to do it... you might see an officer knock on the door/send a letter. Busier towns (Neptune, Asbury Park)... yea, let’s waste manpower on that. [emoji849] Off the top of my head, I own two guns that would screw up your theory. And even still, when guns were in higher demand, you don’t think dealers got 10 round SKUs when 15 rounders were not available? What about Glock 17s? Did every single FFL buy the 17 round version and pin... or did some buy the 10 round ones and didn’t have to be bothered pinning them? For the two guns in question... Beretta PX4 and CZ SP-01 (both 9mm). The Beretta... there was never a model offered by Beretta with 15 rounders. It was 17 and 10. I bought mine used from a moderator on BerettaForum... which came with 15 rounders. How would the NJSP know that? Or would they just say... he must have got a 17 rounder, and Paul at NJ Arms, handed the illegal magazines to me. Obviously, he wouldn’t, as I don’t think any NJ FFL would risk that, but gets to either pinned 15 rounders or 10s. The pistol permit does not show any reference of the SKU sold, so they don’t know if it came with 10, 15, or 17 round magazines. The SP-01... I bought from Steve. Came with 18 rounders (the ones with the bumpers), if I remember correctly. Other option, I believe was 10. Was doing the paperwork on it, and he said he has to pin them. Not too big on the pinned magazines, and he stocked 15 rounders... so swapped them in. Is he an accessory for possessing future high capacity magazine from this sale, back in 2016? Would any of that be probable cause? Hell, I have a few ARs, a WASR, M1A, and a Tavor. There are drum magazines for all of those... so I must be in possession of them. Sorry, but if you don’t hear how stupid that sounds, I really can’t help you (and probably nobody else here). If my local department wants to come down, or even the NJSP, they can look at my two single shot pistols I described above... as well as any other firearm I didn’t have a 10 or less round magazine for. I’m selfish for sending my magazines out of state, not because I fear NJSP’s TEAMS Unit will be breaching my front door... but because I’m 3.5 months out from starting a job in Federal L/E in Maine. A fourth degree crime is a felony, and likely something CBP wouldn’t be too happy over. Even if owning a Glock 19 by itself is probable cause, they gave 180 to get in compliance. You’d have to have evidence that person did not. For that, you are getting way outside the realm of normal police work. Only ones that feel this way are you, Nappen, and some that kiss the ground he walks on. Do have to ask... is that you, Evan?

I see the point. BUT i doubt the NJSP is even worrying about this. They assume as most that people will comply... its not worth the bad press or possible challenge to visit people because they "Might" have something... BTW once the law was being drawn up we had people ask for the 10 rnd version of the 19. They saw the writing on the wall and figured it would save them the headache.

This is false. The police know that anyone who was shipped, for example, a factory Gen 5 Glock 19, has at least three 15 round magazines in their possession if they have not already disposed of them. It's on the Glock website. Forgive me for not sharing your saguinity. The magazine ban itself is purely reactionary, without any rational basis in fact, so who says they'll stop there>

The state made exemptions for LEO / Retired LEO because of Union / Political pressure... I have an issue with this.. He did not represent you for free This is where he got Paid. Whats the "free" advertising worth... Or severely misinformed. Poor Donut shop. I wonder if that shop can sue? Yea i just figured out what the + means when Quoting LOL

Did Nappen win in the courtroom? No. Did Nappen cut the deal with Christie? No. If either of them were to win the lottery next would you give Nappen credit for that too? As for yourself were you charged with a crime? Were your firearms taken? Did he file a civil suit against PD or DYFS? If no to all what exactly did Nappen do that was billable? Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk It's a donut shop. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Bend over and take the 5 rounders next.

Also gun clubs in this state need to have open days where we can bring more people into the fold. They need classes and advertising for those classes so that more women and children go. The real problem is the way that gun rights have been marketed and the NRA and other groups had failed miserably there. We should not allow liberals to frame the debate. I'm tired of hearing the bogus statistics on gun violence and instead we should be hearing about nothing but stories where guns saved lives and we should have a little old lady out there talking about how she was going to be raped or her daughter was going to be raped or her children were going to be killed but the gun save them.

I imagine you will see as many police at ranges counting more than 11 shots as you did at ranges trying counting more than 16 shots.

For the third time, I refer you to this. Representing you for free, cool. Don't know the story behind it, don't want to know because it is irrelevant. A Lawyer who is considered a credible authority on NJ gun law posting patently false information that could cause people to panic is indefensible. Bad people do good things and good people do bad things. What "Evan" did was inexcusable, regardless of whether you like him or not. It's that simple.

@Bully

It's not so much that he is getting paid, but how he goes about drumming up business. Telling people that cops will be going door to door is unethical. Then he doubles down with a Kristallnacht reference. Very uncool.

Maks it's because the plural of "Group" was used. "Phone People" tend to skip-over SH!T & miss so much context on threads like this one (that's more suited for a Ping-Pong table IMHO). Newbies that read this will get the impression (and rightly so I might add) that 2A "Groups" are fighting when nothing could be further from the truth! So please don't "lump me in" by association. If you're chatting about a specific Group, TAG THEM so they can respond. That brings me to this little Gem: I often wonder what some folks consider a group to be. A Facebook page and/or an individual w/o a Board of Trustees to answer to is NOT a Group. A Group has a checkbook, files IRS forms, has a Secretary, Treasurer, Vice President(s) & a President at MINIMUM. Records such as tax records are public domain. 501(c) Groups have Bylaws with a Dissolution Amendment to prevent the Executive Board, Committee Chairs & Trustees from dissolving the corporation & running away with the assets. THAT, gentlemen & ladies constitutes a GROUP. In general, the Mag Ban has brought much bravado out into the public eye. I'm still dealing with the fallout both here & on Facebook. As a volunteer it has taken a LOT out of me. Maybe I'm being affected by it too somewhat. I've been around guns for close to a half-century. Never have I seen so much angst between passionate gun owners. I think everybody needs to take a breath & CHILL! Keep in mind most of us agree with each other close to 90% of the time. The Anti's LOVE it when we eat each other online. How about we don't play into their trap????????? Try to have the rest of a nice week, go Christmas shopping, hit the Gin Mill & have yer favorite adult beverage. The sky hasn't fallen YET! Signed, Chicken Little's Grandpa P.S.: CNJFO has launched a Matching Funds Campaign for the lawsuit known as Cheeseman-Jillard! DOUBLE YOUR DOLLARS by donating HERE & get the TAX-DEDUCTIBILITY of your donation: https://www.cnjfo.com/page-18139

they would uphold laws with a max capacity of 1 round and no semi auto at all.... Activist judges. BUt that would spark a supreme court challenge which they would not be able to avoid.

Obama looked at Michelle, chuckled and said, “You know I throw a $1,000 bill out the window right now and make somebody very happy.” Michelle shrugged her shoulders and replied, “I could throw ten $100 bills out the window and make ten people very happy”. Hearing their exchange, the pilot of the plane said to his co-pilot, “Such big-shots back there. I could throw both of them out of the window and make 256 million people very happy!”

He won’t have a reason, but I suppose he could try. You tell me... I am quite disheartened with some of the fear mongering going on right now and it’s at a full court press. From threats of mass raids on those who own firearms capable of accepting “large capacity magazines,” to Murphy must conduct raids for fear of political retribution, to I’m facing 115 years in jail and a million in fines, to waking up today to an article posted speaking of searches of homes without probable cause (during a search for terrorist bombers), for reasons I’m not sure of, a few in the community are doing, in my opinion, a disservice to the 2a community. I’m not seeking to take away what they have done over time and for what they have done, I and all of us should be grateful for that. As we stand here, on the eve of many of our friends turning into criminals for doing nothing more than inaction, and we stand here having had our constitutional rights limited, illegally and against our will, I thought I’d offer another perspective. A perspective on seeking to help some of us figure it out, and not scare some of us into hiding or moving out of state and reducing the size of the community here to support the second amendment. Full disclosure, I can’t call this legal advice as I don’t know all of your specifics, but I can offer some perspective and try and quell some of the fear that has been heightened over the last few days. That’s not to say there should be no fear, the government has just infringed on our constitutional rights, our governor is hostile to our cause, but the onslaught currently occurring, is making people think tomorrow is the day my local PD raids my home. About me: I’m a proud supporter of the second amendment, a criminal defense attorney, and a former Assistant Middlesex County Prosecutor who ran the county gang, gun, and drugs task force. At my time there, lawful gun owners were not the target of our investigations, that’s not to say some lawful gun owners didn’t do other nutty or illegal stuff, but we didn’t target them for being gun owners, they were targeted for drug dealing, illegal gun running, assault, etc. Those people we in no way assets to the second amendment cause. We, those of us on these discussion groups and forums, are among the most educated gun owners in the state. There are hundreds of thousands of gun owners in the state, but these Facebook groups and forums have 2,000 or 5,000 people participating in the discussion. Quite honestly, I’d expect Joe Schmo gun owner, who got a pistol after watching the expendables because it looks cool, and really has no idea about the mag ban or his second amendment rights, to run afoul of the law before any of us do. That said, I hope, that any person who unknowingly or mistakenly brings a “large capacity magazine” to a range or gun club, is told to take it home or throw it out, and not have the police called on them. I can’t imagine any range that did that would be in business long anyways. I have a hard time with someone, especially someone knowledgeable, suggesting that the simple act of owning a gun that can accept large capacity magazines, is grounds for large scale raids. That IS fear mongering. Raids require search warrants. Search warrants require probable cause. Probable cause has to be determined by a judge, yes a N.J. judge, but a judge. It’s not some willy nilly standard. There have to be proofs of the illegality, describe the items they are seeking, and enough facts, specific facts, to overbear your fourth amendment rights. I have participated in a large amount of search warrants, from the drafting of the affidavit to appearing with the officer in front of a judge, defending search warrants on motions to suppress, and challenging searches based on the fourth amendment. I would not approve an officer seeing a judge, nor would I ever expect a judge to approve a search warrant based on the following: “John Doe is a resident of New Jersey. In 2009, he purchased a Beretta 92fs, a 9 millimeter pistol. That firearm is capable of accepting a magazine that contains more than 10 rounds. Based upon the previous, we believe that we have probable cause to believe that he has a large capacity magazine.” Even in N.J., that isn’t going to fly. It’s probable cause to believe, not a hunch. Without more that’s simply a hunch. That isn’t to say that won’t be part of an application for a search warrant, but there must be more. Someone witnessing your large capacity magazine, posting photos of your large capacity magazines to social media, or possibly bragging about keeping them or using them could certainly further their quest to search a home. What i find sad, is with specific knowledge of what is required for a search warrant, people are still stoking the fires of fear regarding mass raids. I don’t think anyone is actually facing 115 years in jail or a million in fines for their magazines. The N.J. sentencing laws would never allow that type of sentence, not would logic allow for it. The law prohibits the possession of magazines over 10 rounds just like it prohibits possessing hollow points outside of the limited exceptions. Have you ever heard, or do you think even this sad state would allow for punishment per bullet, a 50 round box allowing for a max sentence of 75 years or a super dangerous box of 525 .22’s allowing for a max sentence of 787 years in jail. Similarly, simple possession of 50 large capacity mags will not get you 75 years. Also, with very limited exception, fines other than mandatory ones are not doled out. I’d say I’ve seen 10 cases have discretionary fines in my career of thousands of cases in superior court, and never the maximum. That said, with no record and being a lawful gun owner, possession is a fourth degree crime, which means there is a presumption of non incarceration. Having no record, a person is more likely to have pretrial intervention or probation. I’m in no way saying I agree that it should be illegal, but likely punishment potential needs to be kept in perspective. A quick note on exigency and the article posted on the Boston bombing, though oddly making no mention of the bombing or the search being for the bombers. First, they asked for consent. It’s not easy to say no, especially to highly armed officers in tactical gear, but it’s your right. Does anyone think when police are searching for a similarly situated dirtbag, who just murdered several people including a police officer, and maimed hundreds of others, their focus is on the non-complaint magazine in someone’s sock drawer? The law may allow for the search, but if it does, they have more on their mind than your 15 round Glock mag. It might be more instructive instead of saying prepare for mass raids, to inform people, many who do not posses our knowledge of the law, with their rights. If the police show up and ask to see your weapons or gun safe, you are free to say no. Be careful, they are very slick and will say anything to get into your home if that is their mission. They can’t arrest you for not consenting. If they ask you if you have magazines that are non-compliant, you are free to remain silent. Don’t lie, just be silent and say I don’t wish to speak with you. It is easier said than done as police are instructed on how to manipulate targets to get them to allow searches, waive miranda, etc. If they threaten that they will get a search warrant if you don’t consent, tell them ok. It’s an absolute they will get in if you consent. It’s not absolute that they will be granted a search warrant, and if they do, you can challenge it later in court. If people are worried about parts of the law, they should speak directly with a lawyer about their particular situation. That’s my 2 cents, feel free to disregard, I won’t force anyone to do or believe anything, I just want you to know their are other informed opinions out there that aren’t total doom and gloom.

The thing with hexmag versus other variants is that there is a riser and shorter spring. If you remove the riser, the mag is useless. Yes, you could buy longer springs... but you could also go to DE or PA and buy a bigger mag... which is why this is so idiotic.