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You’d be shocked what people miss at 7 yards. Especially when you add a little stress - like a timer, people watching, or being graded. I’ve seen people miss at 1 yard. More than once.

There is nothing realistic about shooting on any range, let alone shooting a qual course. It is not supposed to be realistic. It is a test. Take the word realistic out of your vocabulary when talking about qualifications. The purpose of the qual is merely to satisfactorily demonstrate you know which end of the gun to point at a target, you have rudimentary marksmanship abilities, and you understand the most basic manual of arms for the platform you are using (loading, unloading, reloading, safety/de-cock, malfunction reduction, etc…) That is it. Passing an HQC doesn’t make you Wyatt Earp any more than buying a guitar makes you Jimmi Hendrix. If you want to use a gun to protect yourself, or do do well in competition, you need to train accordingly.

UPDATE - The officer (Simone) just called me and said "Bring in your application!" The email to the chief must have gone over really well, because he was unhappy. This is an FYI to others in similar situations. Thanks to all for the help!

I dropped off my packet at NJSP Washington Station this afternoon. The Sgt. at the front desk looked at everything in it and was clearly referring to a checklist as he did so. He said it looked complete and would pass it to their firearms person. He even volunteered her email address in case I had any questions to ask her. This is what I did: 3 x application form (SP642 6/28/2022) filled in on my PC and printed. My references signed each copy. I signed each copy in front on a notary at the UPS store he and notarized them. 1 x consent for mental health records search (SP066 7/23/2019) Which I signed and one of my references witnessed. The UPS store guy also did my photos. He knew what it was for as soon as I said I needed 4 pictures. He said he had done several already this week, but I was the first person to ask for 1.5"x1.5" rather than 2"x2". He made a mental note to help future customers. (I also was asked questions by the other staff at the store about how to get a gun and a permit - one was a young expecting mother) I got a money order for $50 from the post office and made it out to "Treasurer, State of New Jersey" - I have been advised by the NJSP trooper that handled my (failed) app in 2017 that the wording on the MO has to be exactly that. Anything else has been bounced before I did quals with a certified instructor that has been doing RPO quals for years. He is recognized by NJSP as being certified for that. He signed off that I did the HQC1 and HNCQ. He did not put his NRA certification number on the form so I got it from him and added it myself. I provided a photocopy of my drivers license and my certificate of naturalization. I provided a photocopy of the PtPP that was executed when I acquired each handgun I qualified with. I went to Identogo in Easton, PA this morning as there were no appointments available on the web site in NJ at all. I had to pay extra for out of state, but I was not prepared to wait. I booked the appt on Tuesday and went today (Thursday). I included the receipt in my packet. Before I handed it all in, I made sure I had a copy of everything for my records. Now the wait begins.

They are thinking, logically, applying common sense in regard to their own desired end. Make it as difficult, time consuming and expensive, if not impossible for the average person in NJ to possess a firearm in NJ for any reason. I would say, that's the part no one says out loud, But actually Gov Beaver does on a regular basis and is proud of it at that.

Actually I'd like to see a case go to SCOUTS arguing that if the state requires training in order to exercise a right, they must provide that training at no cost. They shouldn't be able to attach any cost to the process required to exercise a constitutional right. In the case of vehicle inspection, you can go to a private inspection station, and pay to have your vehicle inspection done (typically meaning you failed at the state so your paying to get a passed sticker), Or go to a state inspection and the state fulfills the requirement at no cost. Only difference being in the case of vehicle inspection, they are negating a cost associated with a privilege vs they will not negate the cost in the same way to exercise a right. As I said at the beginning, I'd like to see this in court.

This country is so fucked! No wonder they want all the guns! Jeez, why is the whitehouse and capital are ringed with barbed wire?? Wasn't this supposed to be the people's house? The bidens are so corrupt as is pelosi it is sickening.

Not sure where all this misinformation is coming from about cost and number of rounds and course of fire. Right now the permit app fee is $50 for 2 years if approved. Course of fire is 50 rounds at intervals out to 25 yards,you must score 40 out of 50 ,80%. Now, can those requirements change? Of course.Will they be constitutional? Maybe not. If you haven't read the ruling or comments by justice Thomas ,you should. They cannot put any crazy requirements , restrictions or unreasonable costs that would restrict the average citizen from obtaining a CCW. Gun for hire has cert course for $150. Im sure some ranges will gouge customers. You also have to pay for you electronic prints. I would let the dust settle before i apply and see what sticks to the wall as far as requirements

KEEP SUING JERSEY INFINITEM. MURPH MUST COMPLY WITH THE US CONSTITUTION, PERIOD. WE DONT CARE ABOUT MURPH'S FEELINGS.

suppose he says that they can't be carried in repair shops? guess what? that is OUR decision and ours alone. i'm happy to have people other than hoodrats come in with their firearm.

Seems like each course is different. Call the places you're considering and ask them. I would presume the GFH course isn't times because they didn't say it is and they said you could get by on 3 magazines.

i think that the business's having to specifically say it's allowed will be struck down. it should be the other way round.... actually, most of that should be easily struck down.

All I know is there are multiple training instructors and facilities with ALL DIFFERENT requirements. This is the BS I'm talking about. Some doing Basic pistol 1&2 and Holster draw 1&2 with a CCW thats over 1k in fees, Some doing HNQC & HQC2, some just basic pistol and qualification test. The most realistic one I've seen is Gun For Hire, who is qualification from ready position like majority of CCW states..unfortunately they are 1hr and 20min from me but I might have to suck up that ride and get it done!

I'll be qualifying the week after next. My location will be doing it with the holster per HQC1 requirements. There seems to be two separate camps at the moment, ranges in NJ that require holster draw for HQC1 and the ranges that don't. I am concerned about the ones that don't.

Brisket and pork loins rubbed down ready for tomorrow

So what's the process when a case is vacated and remanded to a lower court? Anyone know when it gets worked back into the schedule and how long it takes until it is likely decided (in our favor)?

Remember kids…

Ah, yes, the infamous 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, sprung from the loony left coast. I don't know how they've not yet been required to clear the bench and start over with smarter justices. This year, 16 of their rulings went up to the Supreme Court. 15 were overturned. Still, a better average than in 1985 when they had a stunning 25 of 26 rulings overturned by the Supreme Court. Their average reversal rate over the last 15 year? 79% So yeah, a monkey flipping a coin would do statistically much better than the 29 esteemed justices of the 9th circuit. The embarrassing 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

With SCOTUS instructing lower courts to use one step vs two step scrutiny, we're going to see a mountain of case reconsiderations in lower courts

maybe call fox news. i'm sure tucker or hannity would love to get their teeth into something like this.

GFH states on their web site they are shooting from the 25yrd. line while RTSP states they are shooting from the 15yrd line so what's the acceptable criteria....

I'm a bit hazy about this. NJ has and issued CCW for many years (we all know the story with that). Why all of a sudden, since the SCOTUS ruling is it so dangerous and important it keep people with CCW's out of these places? If it's so important now, why wasn't it important the day before SCOTUS made their opinion public? This is a rhetorical question. Just like, " NJ has and issued CCW for many years (we all know the story with that). We pretty much know that when only "the special people" had CCW's in NJ it didn't matter. Now that (maybe) average law abiding citizens will have access to CCW's, NJ has to find a way to only allow them to carry in the middle of an isolated field with no one within 5 miles. I wonder how many times this will have to go back to court before NJ is forced into true compliance with this ruling.

The statutes say to submit it to the chief of police, so ask to see him and hand it to him. 2C:58-4 Permits to carry handguns. c. Investigation and approval. Each application shall in the first instance be submitted to the chief police officer of the municipality in which the applicant resides, or to the superintendent, (1) if the applicant is an employee of an armored car company, or (2) if there is no chief police officer in the municipality where the applicant resides, or (3) if the applicant does not reside in this State. The chief police officer, or the superintendent, as the case may be, shall cause the fingerprints of the applicant to be taken and compared with any and all records maintained by the municipality, the county in which it is located, the State Bureau of Identification and the Federal Bureau of Identification. He shall also determine and record a complete description of each handgun the applicant intends to carry.

Very good argument. Many years of draconian NJ firearms laws with some of their unreasonable and obsolete requirements for firearms ownership had done their damage to our minds. With modern technology there is no need for multiple references and endless renewals. This is a hardship for some and especially for older people. Some of their friends are gone, other lost their minds and joined the antis. There is a generation divide between parents and their grown children. All these petty requirements have only one purpose, to make it hard or impossible to own a gun in NJ.

This is the firearms qualification for law enforcement. Statutes say it must be "substantially similar". It depends on how you define substantially similar, but that is why you are seeing differences. https://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/firearms_2003final.pdf

Constitution mentions nothing about "passing quals". Just because NJ has restrictive policies it doesn't mean that they're necessary or proper. While it wouldn't hurt, the average Joe who wants to carry doesn't 'need' police training.

There are people ranting on these thread about qualifying with FBI/LEO courses, night training, drawing from holster, twice a year,etc, etc. That's FINE if they want to do it, but it's not necessary. GFH has the qualification course listed on their site. It's PAINFULLY easy to anyone who practices even a little. – No holster needed – All shooting from the ready position – 50 rounds per firearm – FBI Q target – 24 rounds at 7 yards – 14 rounds at 10 yards – 6 rounds at 15 yards – 6 rounds at 25 yards For a total of 50 rounds. Must hit at least 40 rounds out of 50 (80%)

The CoF for qualifying is not specified anywhere. It appears to be up to the instructor running the qual to decide what he/she wants in order to be satisfied that you are competent and safe. Many people are leaning towards the HQC1, HQC2 & HNQC as there is little scope for the authorities to argue with the validity as that is what RPOs qualify doing.

I've used references from Delaware for my FID card and for multiple handgun purchase permits since I live in Salem County and used to work just over the bridge. Never had a problem with it. I would think they would accept the same for CCW but the only way to be sure would be to ask what ever department you are applying through.

Gas crisis SOLVED! Biden’s new ‘gas czar’! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MoPw1i4SKN0

IMO, Anthony @gunforhire has setup a great webpage that has links to all the forms you need to use and he's setup time slots for people to sign up for their the Qualification - https://gunforhire.com/nj-ccw-permit/ The website lists the qualification as $150 (+ $50 for each additional gun). Looks like a one stop shop for CCW needs.

Learning to use a handgun well enough to defend yourself with any confidence is a progression. If you just get a gun and the next day face a bad guy, you're relying pretty much purely on luck. Does it work sometimes? Sure, but it is nothing more than luck. There are quite a few things to try to think about handling a firearm for the first time. I long ago stopped trying to count the number of new shooters I had to stop from putting their finger inside the trigger guard as they picked up the gun. Muzzle awareness is not a natural born instinct either. Then add in learning how to carry out the fundamentals and most people are task saturated the first few times out. If you mix in IDPA scenarios and/or self defense techniques at that stage you are doing the new shooter a disservice. They will quickly be overwhelmed and their performance will suck. For first time shooters (or any new complex thing) break it down to digestible chunks. When you first learned to drive, were you in an empty parking lot, or on the highway with a dozen cars and trucks flying by? The novice shooter needs to learn how carry out the fundamentals with as few distractions as possible until they get the concepts and can execute them. Adding in multiple targets, movement, holsters, reloads, etc. is way too much and makes the environment ripe for an accident. Also, a novice cannot sustain the concentration necessary for more than 60-90 minutes. A day on the range is way too much in one go. I strongly suggest parking this idea until you have been able to help them learn the fundamentals and they have become familiar enough to run the gun in their subconscious - like by now you just think "slow down" and your foot works the brake pedal all by itself.

Seriously. People need to stop giving them ideas on how to screw us over. You KNOW the powers that be monitor this site and are takeing notes. I can see them now. Hunched over their computer. 'OH! I didn't even think of that one! Phil will love that idea!!" Where did you do your qualification at?

As is tradition.

Carry allowed; to and from the range with reasonable deviation. Carry allowed; from the gunstore to your home, with reasonable deviation.

they are all infringements on our 2nd and 14th Rights....OMO.

The 33 rounder is for the mag change. Otherwise carry it IWB at 12 o'clock and enjoy all the attention it attracts.

I believe this is an extremely good sign for you guys, for mag capacity ban, as well as AWB. Patience. This will come.

Damn!!!!!!!! You guys might yet become part of real America when it comes to gun issues! Awesome!

It means SCOTUS sent it back to lower case for reconsideration, usually means the law is unconstitutional. Good for us.

This I love: "The state protests that magazines capable of holding more than ten rounds are not “necessary or appropriate for self-defense” because it is rarely necessary to fire more than ten rounds to ward off an attack. BIO.15. That claim is in serious tension with the fact that the standard-issue weapon for the state’s own law-enforcement officers is the Glock 19 pistol with a 15-round magazine. See Pet.App.131. But more to the point, the test this Court articulated in Heller, drawing on centuries of common-law tradition, asks whether arms are commonly possessed by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes, not whether law-abiding citizens commonly need to use them for self-defense. See Heller, 554 U.S. at 625. And the American people have “overwhelmingly chosen” magazines capable of holding more than ten rounds. Id. at 628."

Unfortunately SCOTUS ruled that the Biden admin can end the Trump ‘remain in Mexico’ policy. This is bad.

100% of school shootings (any type) occur in gun free zones. They are the magnet for deranged criminals to make their move. They are also the poster children for useless gun control laws. If Murphy and the Democrats try to create a shit ton of gun free zones, then we should remind them they will be responsible for each and every shooting death and injury in locations where they have guaranteed there will be no armed opposition. And we should do that every time it happens.

The Bruen decision does not change the permitting process in any state. It simply eliminates the need to show just cause. Everything else remains the same and would need to be challenged separately. Sorry.

I shot this like 10x before I decided to pack it away and never use it again. Upgraded the grips, it's a wonderful gun to look at, maybe not so much to shoot. Montclair - Matching FID and DL, permits in hand. $1050 First to post "I'll take it" wins.

Bump With pics

Its a slippery slope. I guess if Jersey tries that bull , Victims should be able to sue the perps family.

My slide finally made it. Waiting on iron sights to show. And a barrel.