Leaderboard

When I am in my car and someone approaches with a gun drawn... They don't intend to shoot my car. They don't intend to shoot my money. They intend to shoot me. So I have every right to preempt them.

So much speculation and rumor on this site about the legal use of force. Are you required to retreat? Can you use force to defend property? Can you defend someone else or only yourself? Are the rules different in your home? A lot of information came from a guy who knows a guy who used to be a cop or something like that. So here are the real answers to all of those questions in 4 parts. If you plan to carry a firearm for self protection in NJ, you should know what the real law says. And, unlike a lot of NJ law, this is pretty easy to understand. New Jersey Statute 2C:3-4 Use of Force in Self-Protection New Jersey Statute 2C:3-5. Use of force for the protection of other persons New Jersey Statute 2C:3-6. Use of force in defense of premises or personal property New Jersey Statute 2C:3-9. Mistake of law as to unlawfulness of force

in all honesty. this thread is becoming nothing but a full blown assumption pool with people putting in their two cents. this is supposed to be a thread for different experiences from people who received their permits or any other CONFIRMED permits not some random picture posted on an unknown permit with zero information provided.

4 days ago, a gentleman in Millville received his carry permit with zero restrictions. No attached court order. Nothing. Every county has been doing something different since the SC decision. Just to clarify what you had said, NJ was issuing essentially zero permits prior to the bruen decision. There were ~2000 permits in total within the entire state that were solely RPO, security, judges, politicians. Post bruen, for the average citizen, the permits have been issued with wildly varying restrictions and circumstances depending on where you live. Since the last batch of permits issued in monmouth and ocean with the orders in question attached, nothing else has come out yet, at least publicly. Other counties have continued to issue permits with either no restriction, or just specific firearm restrictions, so we are all patiently waiting for the next batch of monmouth/ocean permits to surface to see if they also have the list of restrictions, or not. Upon speaking to a 2A attorney, I was informed that currently 15 of 21 counties have been issuing with restrictions, with each county doing whatever they want as they see fit. In a nut shell, it's been a complete shit show.

Which is ridiculous because all she needs is a rubber stamp. There is no more need for her, or any other judge or prosecutor, to decide whether or not you are worthy of a permit. Pass background check? Mental health check? Here's your permit. That's how it should go Frankly, if someone is deemed unsafe to carry a firearm, why would they be allowed to own them and purchase them? If you have an FID, and have received pistol purchase permits, is that not proof enough that you also have the ability to carry? Or is there a threshold where you aren't enough of a crazy or criminal that you can own, but too much of a crazy or criminal to carry?

C'mon, man!

That has been on there...so I called and they said that they do issue non-resident.

Agreed, but they have to be pointing a gun or knife at you. It will still be on you to prove it. This woman that was abducted and murdered while jogging in Tennessee, I have to wonder if that happened here and she shot that piece of shit how it would have gone down. He was technically unarmed? By the time he grabbed her she would have had to draw and fire her weapon. Then she has to prove that he intended to abduct her. The whole "he was a good boy" argument starts to come out from the shitty family. I'm sure he has some mother reminiscent of Bonnie Watson Coleman. Idk the answer, I'm just thinking about it all.

If you're waiting for them to point it at you, you've waited too long to act.

Just remember in TAX Jersey the victim has NO rights and ALL rights go to the person doing the crime.

Smoking deal, today (9/6/22) only, with Free shipping code. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2420373744?pid=373744

***DELETED***

so when is congress gonna sign off on it making it law?

There are some others listed in the rules directly. It's very much a grey area until the final rules are published, and even then will probably remain a grey area. The checklist they are producing would seem to generally omitt others as of right now.. The primary reason they aren't talked much about is because NJ and CT are the only places others are popular due to our laws.

Thanks for the info...I find the spite angle kinda incredulous personally now that the SC has ruled on this. And especially if they take their spite and share it with every wana-be permit holder in Monmouth...Would any rational person with a cushy judge seat take a risk to their job as such...And indeed the spite angle doesn't explain Ocean as you imply. If it is applied to all persons in both counties (TBD), I think it is a more deep-routed belief system guided by their political Ideologies...Yea, and (maybe) they collaborated on an ideology, but not cross-county "spit", imo. If my permit comes back restricted, I'll be Lawyering up immediately, no way they can get away with this for very long anyway.

Great post meaning the job you did in encapsulation and postulation, not what they are doing to us... What did Mr. Francisco do to piss these 2 counties off?

Nothing has turned out to be false. On Sunday, Evan Nappen put out his latest podcast episode talking about the order in question here. No mention of it being a work permit, he acknowledged the validity of the orders that we have seen, and he did not mention anything specifically that was being done but did say it's is in the works to be challenged. So far we have seen the order come from ocean and monmouth County, while other counties continue to issue completely unrestricted permits. My educated guess/specualtion/assumption is that monmouth and ocean county have a personal issue with Daniel Francisco, and in an attempt to render his permit useless without blatantly displaying discrimination against him, they pulled this order out of nowhere and are applying it to everyone in ocean/monmouth going forward. There also now seems to be a delay in any other permits that have been issued from these 2 counties in the past 2 weeks. It seemed they were beginning to churn them out, then this order popped up, and now I haven't heard anything about anyone else receiving their permit. Perhaps this could be related to the powers that be possiblybtaking a weeks vacation for labor day? Or could there be some commotion in the background with courts and pds trying to CYA and figure out how keep all of their hoops on fire for us.

I highly recommend everyone take a use of force class regardless of CCW status. It was worth every second.

There has been a bit of discussion of the required 'passport photos' in this thread. I generated my own, as have a few others. Get a good, clear picture against a light-colored featureless background. Follow all of the other guidelines for a passport photo; don't smile, no hat, etc. I edited mine into a square format right in the photo app. I also lightened the background a little, but if you stand in front of a light enough wall to begin with, that isn't necessary. Leave enough background around you to allow for further cropping, and be sure to save high-resolution images at each step. I used Preview to edit the size to 1.5" square; GraphicConverter or most any other image editor will also work, either by letting you specify the size, or by putting rulers on screen so you can drag to the size you want. This may not have been a necessary step. I couldn't find any way to use the Walmart photo app to print one or more 1.5" images on a larger print, but if you use the Walgreens photo app, and select a collage print, 4" x 4" size, and select the collage layout that allows you to insert 4 same-size photos on the same print, it works great. When I picked up the print, each of the four images was 1.8" square, so I probably could have used the larger, square photos (skipping the edit to 1.5" sq) and they would have scaled them down to that same size. Simple enough to cut them down to 1.5" when cutting them from the collage print. My all-in cost for four 1.5" passport photos? 53 cents.

Earlier in this thread. I believe that it turned out to be false, but someone here will confirm it once their friend gets theirs soon.

doesn't amnesty assume you're guilty of something?

Smart thugs and even most of the stupid ones don't "open"-carry (gun/knife/Billy-stick, etc.), would be nice but they don't want to make it too easy for their victims. This goes full circle back to the debate of what distance does Granny need to qualify for her pistol permit...25 yards? One would have to think long and hard of where civilians can prove a deadly threat at that distance. Mass shooter, sure, but statistically that is so rare. Some other very rare event, sure...But it is usually right in you face when thug jumps you. Hard statistics show something like 20 feet and under cover 95% (or so) of non cop SD incidents. If you have a 20 feet "warning" consider yourself lucky, most are a lot closer than that. Remember distance is your friend in SD, for a thug who is after you, it is just the opposite, they want to be able to smell your breath if they can before they make their move/show their evil intentions.

Exactly my point below.

In NJ anyway, you will not do well with deploying your gun in a pre-emptive manner because you "think" someone is a thug...You better know so based on what he is doing...Walking by your car door, walking on you property without making any additional threat (right or wrong) doesn't qualify. Not in nj.

But if you point a gun at someone just because he is walking by your car you might be going jail...This is not like Hollywood, you better be sure you can prove a legitimate SD threat before you whip it out. In the moves it is usually an obvious decision, in real life not so much...A smart thug will wait till you are stuck in traffic and not pull his gun out until he is right next to you. Or it may turn out he had no gun and was just crossing the street...You better know what you are doing out there.

You can in free America. Texas for example.

Ok gents (and hopefully ladies) just dropped off at my local PD. The woman there was ready to go and very nice. What an outstanding experience. It's nice to have people that clearly support the second amendment. Now we wait.

***DELETED***

Yes mine was unrestricted, but it came on 8/9 and I was told I was the first in the county to receive it. The one with the restrictions was delivered 8/23. She could have changed the way she is restricting them, or it could have been an employment permit everyone has been concerned about. My buddy should have an OC permit soon so I will know when he gets his.

Assembly and senate is up for reelection next year. Dems lost seats in 2021, including Sweeney. N.J. isn't California, yet..

Years ago I carried a P229 . It was concealable, but got heavy. I eventually down sized to a P239, which was flat and easy to conceal. After having lots of guns in a concealed carry rotation Ihave settled on a P365. It is small, light, accuate , and holds an adequate number of rounds for most situations. It conceals well in sn IWB, pocket holster and/or ankle rig. Good luck!

I went with a PX-4 storm compact carry. A little bit of heft to it, 3.2 in barrel, full-size grip, I can get all three fingers on the grip. Double/single action. Awesome trigger out of the box and if you want to lighten the trigger there is the Langdon Tactical drop in trigger group. I may send it in for a rds cut and install a Holosun optic.

I should have a new Ocean County Permit very soon. Once I have the FACTS, I will share with the group including a picture so this is settled and we can focus on FACTS and not “rumors/speculation”. Should be any day.

Reverse boating accident??

The court order is literally demanding you brandish your firearm before entering you're vehicle. It is the only way to abide by the order. Yo cannot even enter your car and then put the gun in its case and then bring it to the truck. The moment you enter the vehicle while carrying the firearm, you are breaking the order. Therefore you have to carry to your trunk, unholster, drop mag, put in case, put in trunk, and then you can enter your vehicle. And then obviously reverse order when leaving the vehicle. #11 of that order is a direct threat to public safety and the safety of the permit holder, and extremely negligent of the court.

I would think that loading/unloading a firearm in a publicly visible area is probable cause for a search at minimum, not to mention could get you a nervous cop with a pistol aimed at you.

I don't know about the rest of my fellow shore folk but I have become completely deflated after seeing #11 on the monmouth and ocean county court orders that are now being given out.. I have been pretty optimistic up until this point and I just can't get over the fact that we have to sit here and take this until it gets dragged through the courts and changed. They have literally given us or are giving us a useless permit to carry and I don't know what to do or feel about it. Not to mention the ~$1k I've put out for application, qualification, sub compact pistol etc etc

It was a zoom meeting for me last week so him requiring an in person appearance is concerning.

I posted an update in the other thread. Will paste it here and update going forward. I’ve heard nothing further along in the process anywhere. I check Facebook, Reddit, and here . “Money order was cashed yesterday. Hopefully I’ll have a permit soon. Burlington county Got packet from PD 7/5. Qualified 7/6 at rtsp. Prints done and app turned in 7/7. Police sat on for two weeks. Detective called references and employer 8/3. Sent to superior court 8/5. Forwarded to county prosecutor 8/15. Money order cashed 8/17. Will update when necessary. Hopefully sooner than later.”

Here is another confirmed set of permits out of ocean county with the same list of restrictions. Gentleman states he and his wife received their permits via Manchester PD last week

Still just crickets out of Middlesex

You mean I can't just blast a shotgun through my closed front door? On a more serious note, a guy in NJ is headed to jail pretty soon for punching, and killing, a person who was trying to break into his car. The reasoning for the charge? He didn't first ask the perp to fuck off. Yes, you have to actually tell someone to not steal your property before attempting to stop them from doing so.

sticky needs to be updated

No good anymore. Did you do it online?

If you notice all the car jackings going on, having a loaded firearm in the car at the ready would be one of the main reasons to 'carry' all the time. My car is also my castle. NYC thieves ram car into SUV in $20K heist on Upper East Side (nypost.com)