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Just had my hearing in Burlington County. Judge confirmed I’m the first in our county. Just asked to confirm make and model. Read restricted places to me. Carry IS NOT restricted in our vehicles. Said he’s signing today and putting in the mail and that I should have physical permit by the end of the week but that I am approved.

It's in my wife's purse.

Just had my hearing in Burlington County. Judge confirmed I’m the first in our county. Just asked to confirm make and model. Read restricted places to me. Carry IS NOT restricted in our vehicles. Said he’s signing today and putting in the mail and that I should have physical permit by the end of the week but that I am approved.

The original article writer, John Petrolino responded to my inquiry as follows: "Please feel free to share the following: On Gun For Hire Radio Episode 588, August 27, 2022 (https://gunforhire.com/blog/the-gun-for-hire-radio-broadcast-episode-588/), Anthony Colandro had Dan Schmutter (the attorney litigating the case) on the show to discuss several different pieces of pending litigation and other topics. Schmutter opened with talking about this case and here is a transcript of the conversation: Schmutter: So unfortunately, guys, I have to open with some not great news. We just heard from the Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit. In the magazine case, we were hoping to keep the case up at the Court of Appeals and have…ask the Court of Appeals…and we have asked The Court of Appeals to decide the case on the merits right now. The state was urging them to send it back down to the trial court, the District Court. And unfortunately, we got a two one ruling today that the Third Circuit decided to send it back down to the District Court. And what that does is it just adds another layer of delay. And cost. And so unfortunately, you know, now we're back at the District Court, we have to do that all over again. We'll probably end up back at the Court of Appeals, you know, whichever way it goes, somebody's not gonna be happy. So, you know, it's unfortunate. We were, we were urging the court to not, you know, give in to the state's request to add more delay in cost. And it was a two, one decision. We got a very nice dissenting opinion from Judge Paul meaty. And he agreed with us that there was no reason to send it back down to the trial court, you know, the usual…it is very typical for when something comes down from the Supreme Court for the Court of Appeals to send it all the way back down to the trial court. But that's not unusual. It's actually quite typical. The problem is, in this case, it's not necessary. And there's plenty of precedent for not doing that where it's not necessary or appropriate. And I think we made a very strong case that it's not. But, you know, the court did with the court didn't so we have to live with it. And so we'll you know, we'll fight the fight down at the District Court. But it's disappointing. I mean, they really, you know, our feeling was they should have done the right thing here and just kept it, decided it. And, you know, but that's, that's life. Colandro: Now, what do we face at the District Court? Is it one judge? Is it a panel? Schmutter: Yeah it's one judge, the original trial judge that heard it the first time. He gets it back, but he gets it back under a new set of rules. He gets it back now under the rules from the Bruen decision. And so you know, in a sense, he's not starting from scratch because there is a record. It's not like we're starting with a blank slate here. There is a record and there is a favorable record. So, in the sense that we think that the some of the findings that the court made the first time around are very, very helpful to us. So, you know the court is presumably gonna reach out to us at some point soon to, you know, we'll probably have a conference, the court will probably want to know how the parties think the case should proceed, and we'll go from there. And we'll develop our strategy as to what the what the right way to move this forward is. And we'll move it forward. It's just disappointing that we're going to be doing this in a in a court where we really shouldn't have to be. But you know, as you know, we know, as it's a slog, it's a marathon, and we're going to continue fighting. I mean, it's, there's no question or option we're gonna keep this moving. And, you know, we like our chances. We think that…we've talked about this quite a few times now, about how we think Bruen gives us some very, very good tools. And we're going to bring those to bear in the District Court on this case. We'll see what happens. When there's a development, you'll certainly…I hope you'll have me back to talk about it. And we'll see what we'll go from there. ### The remand from the Third Circuit back to the lower court can be read here: https://reason.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/NJRifle.pdf As Rooney pointed out in his article (https://savejersey.com/2022/08/3rd-circuit-punts-n-j-10-round-magazine-ban-case-back-to-district-court/), Judge Paul Matey's dissent is worth a full read. The quick answer is we've been punted back down, again, but that does not mean we're starting from square one. Will we see 15 rounders again in New Jersey? Will we see them by year's end? Will we see magazines larger than 15 rounds in NJ? All great questions, but it's hard to read how this is going to go down. As far as the NYSRPA v. Bruen decision goes, it's clear that putting a restriction on a standard capacity magazine would be unconstitutional, as such restrictions would not have been acceptable at the time of our founding. Hope this helps. Please feel free to zap me a line if you have more questions or have other tips, leads, etc. Regards, John Petrolino www.thepenpatriot.com" I invite you to contact John directly as he is a 2A supporter and a NJ Resident

Thanks, I read it over and I’m not convinced.. it states that judges must review carry permits and appeals at least once every 30 days and should not exceed that 30 day timeframe without good cause. now I’m not a lawyer, I’m just your average everyday guy but.. my understanding of that is they have to review at least once every 30 days, doesn’t say they have to approve or deny. Also doesn’t say that it’s automatically approved if no action is taken

Interesting.. guess that would mean there won’t be any restrictions

Meet me at the bar and I'll show ya.

I had to renew my Utah and took a "selfie" against a white cinderblock wall. They accepted it and now my Utah permit looks like a prison photo. Lol

Not true. It may not be a common occurrence, but I know for a fact that the engaged safety on a S&W 4013 saved the life of a co-worker when someone took his gun, put it to his chest, pulled the trigger, and got a dead trigger instead of a bang. Not chambering a round is the stupidest thing you can do when carrying a gun. Engaging a manual safety, if the pistol if so equipped, is appropriate. Carrying an unloaded gun is borderline suicidal. You can’t compare that Israeli garbage technique to using a manual safety appropriately. The manipulation of most pistol safeties adds zero time to a draw. I also guarantee I can draw and fire my 1911 (scoring an a zone hit) as fast if not faster than you can any striker fired gun. Tell some of these Tier 1 guys still carrying 1911s or these GM Competition shooters with their 1911 and 2011 pattern guns, all with manual safeties, that they are slow. They will burn you down on a shot timer. Ultimately, I don’t know if any of this really matters in the grand scheme of things, as my personal CCW choices reflect, but they are choices to be made in the real world and should be considered when choosing a gun you are comfortable betting your life on AND when deciding what skills and TTPs you are going to train.

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It really is crazy. Those judges are literally telling people to take a handgun out in public and operate it. I made seven or eight stops today, imagine I had to remove the handgun and unload it each time, then reload it again?

All while praying that you don't have a failure to feed, have enough space to manipulate the slide without short stroking, and...having 1 less round available to you.

Not a very good technique if your support hand is unavailable for some reason: Managing a child, grappling with your assailant, injured, etc.

Timelines for issuance are useless without consequences for those who don't follow them. Why should they care? New Jersey never followed their timelines before. Just look at the history of FID and P2Ps...

You’re right. Have a nice day.

I think this has turned into a good discussion. Ultimately i think a lot comes down to personal preference and practice. As above, practice is the great equalizer. I work from home a lot, so i'm constantly dry firing and practicing drawing while on conference calls. Helps to pass the time and build muscle memory...

A week or so ago the 3rd circuit punted the mag ban case down to the district court - it’s like starting all over again. I saw the source on njguns Reddit - I need to find the source edit: found it on a different site https://savejersey.com/2022/08/3rd-circuit-punts-n-j-10-round-magazine-ban-case-back-to-district-court/

No worries. I took my own photos on my phone and used an online service called makepassportphoto.com. They charged $2.99 to format the pictures correctly at 1.5” x 1.5”. I took those files and emailed them to Walgreens and printed them for .80 cents. Easy peasy.

Has anyone heard anything in Union County? I cant find any information on anybody getting a permit issued so far.

Deactivating the safety, or forgetting to is the result of insufficient training and practice. I compete with striker fired guns without manual safeties (Glock, P320, XD/XDm) and guns with manual safeties (1911, BHP, CZ75). I have no issue making the gun go bang when I want it to from the draw. If you don't handle your gun regularly, yes you could fluff the safety. You could also get a bad grip, not have your sights aligned at the end of the draw stroke, all sorts of things. I have even seen a gun get pulled from the holster and tossed across the range as a competitor swept his concealment garment out of the way - his hand never touched the gun and he earned himself a DQ. Words from top tier guys - "You might practice until you get it right. We practice until we can't get it wrong."

Nothing new. Of the places that will even ship to nj, most ask for FID.

$20K really is the bottom figure as you well noted. It just goes up from there. From what I've read, upwards of 100K in fees for a criminal defense case involving homicide, for instance, is not at all uncommon, particularly if expert witnesses need to be pulled in, etc. And I would think that those higher fees might be even more common in a high-cost, 2A-hostile state such as ours. That's a lot of expense. I dare say it's enough to ruin many households financially... while others with even less money would simply have to roll the dice and put their freedom in the hands of a young, wet-behind-the-ears public defender. Eegads! I'd say all of that heartache is worth avoiding for $200 a year.

Supreme Court of New Jersey adopted the Directive making it mandatory. If there is one thing Supreme Court Justices get uppity about it’s having lower court judges not abide by their mandates.

Still, $200 a year for a legal defense that could be $20,000 or more seems like a great deal.

After each shot you must reload the case with a single stage press.

Maybe y'all can get something like this and wear it around your neck.

I got one a week or so ago. So far I like it.

I agree it's just a directive but some have taken it to mean signed by judge, but I don't agree. Just posting to show what people are referring to.

I’m waiting five weeks for an electrical permit that is mandated by NJ law to be issued within three weeks. What do I do? Complain to the mayor? He is the idiot who won’t allocate the funds to the building department so they could do their jobs on time. He’s not going to do anything. Our government regulates itself, and poorly.

NJ, CA, NY, MD not issuing carry permits was ruled "constitutional" until SCOTUS said it wasn't! Ask yourself this... Do you think the founders of our country would have thought that obtaining permits to speak or obtaining permits to buy and carry arms would have been okay? Absolutely not! The constitution doesn't say you have freedom of speech or the right to keep and bear arms AFTER the government gives you permission. The constitution literally puts limits on the government from doing this very thing! BTW this is a conceptual annalists, under our current overreaching government you are correct....

It's more of a handsgun technique.

I don't think anyone has crossed that bridge yet. N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4c says the permit is automatically approved if the PD takes no action in 60 days, but doesn't address what happens next or what time limit may apply to the court.

And what if they go beyond? There is no accountability, no consequences, no automatic issuance. So the 30 day court thing is just smoke and mirrors as far as I'm concerned!

Yes And to avoid setting bad precedent —Whoever does it first had better do it right the first time.

Click on John's New article! GVRed NJ 10-round magazine ban punted back down to U.S. District Court By John Petrolino | Sep 12, 2022 11:30 AM ET Share Tweet In what should be a semi open and shut case, the matter of New Jersey’s 10 round magazine capacity limitation case has been remanded further down. The Grant, Vacate, Remand from the Supreme Court of the United States on Association New Jersey Rifle, et al v. Attorney General New Jersey, et al. should have been a solid indicator to the United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit on how to rule. https://bearingarms.com/john-petrolino/2022/09/12/gvred-nj-10-round-magazine-ban-punted-back-down-to-u-s-district-court-n62231

Do we need to appear before the judge? Also has anyone gotten a permit yet or are they going out this week? Are we getting any restrictions for our permits from the judge in Union County?

Congrats!

Nope

Thanks for that info!

Congrats

Maybe he doesn't anymore but I was at a seminar years ago and he said if you have a backdoor and it's accessable you better retreat out of it. Maybe I heard it out of context. Idk.

If someone can prove that it seems like a removable offense. They don't want to do their job?

I just spoke to a Det. Sgt. from a Cape May County Municipal PD who has processed 10-15 in his town. He told me, "WHAT HE HEARD" (not gospel) was that for Atl. & CMC, the judges don't want to look at them and approve them - so what they are doing is having a clerk make a pile and once they hit 60 days or 90 or whatever it is, they are going to approve by default, not review and approve. He speculated that this might somehow give the judge an "out" if something goes down with the permit holder - i.e. Judge can say "I didn't review and approve it, It was automatically approved statutorily pursuant to N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4c." This is what he said - I am not stating this as fact !

I got gas for $3.29 today. I'm trying to figure out if this is more of decreased demand or more of the emptying of the strategic oil reserves. There was an article posted a page back about gas consumption pretty much decreasing since 2020. However, it has been rather obvious that gas prices have not followed that pattern.

That train of thought is a fallacy - Same as carrying a gun without a round chambered. When you need it, the seconds count...

Anyone from Union County have any updates?

Got mine in Manchester(Ocean County). No restrictions on the permit. submitted ppwk and prints on 7/5 picked up permit on 8/16.

All well and good, however, this ragtag community of gun owners needs to gain as much ground as fast as possible. I too will take what I can but I’m not satisfied with everything that Bruen has given us in theory and that NJ is doing in practice. If we sit back with a piece of the win, then NJ will oblige us and squeeze our rights down. Ocean and Monmouth county courts need to be made an example of in the most extreme manner possible. They need to humiliated and slapped down so other judges will not follow. Thanks

Edison Very professional and responsive