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My township PD has been very communicative. This a fantastic FB post. Straight copy/paste below. No editing. Good afternoon Old Bridge 2A residents We just wanted to update our residents on our progress in the processing of a permit to purchase, a Firearms Purchaser Identification Card (FID) or a permit to carry. As a lot of you know, we have been and will continue to be out in front of the pack in processing times in comparison to other municipalities or agencies. There are however some pieces of the investigative puzzle that slow things down such as out-of-state mental health checks or clarification/disposition of a criminal record. We are often waiting on a court to provide us with an official disposition of an applicant’s prior criminal arrest charge(s). This takes time. Some states are slow in response to a mental health record check which is also conducted via U.S. Mail. We do not take any shortcuts in our background investigations. If there’s a question that needs answering, we will find the answer or wait on an applicant to provide needed documentation so we are confident in approving, or if need be, denying an application. Now, with that said, we want our residents to know what our average turn around times are. Again, these are averages and cannot obviously be applied to each and every applicant’s unique background check. When we are suddenly inundated with applications, things slow down a bit but they do not stop! We remain diligent in our processing of your applications. We have an average of 14 days for permit to carry applications that do not involve out-of-state checks. This means that from the time we receive your complete application till the time we send it up to Middlesex County is about 2 weeks. For those carry applications that do involve out-of-state checks, we are averaging less than 30 days. Carry permits are entirely done on paper and utilize the postal system for documents. They are reviewed and approved on business days. We email the applicant when we forward the application to the Middlesex County Superior Court. Under the statute (N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4), the judge assigned to review such applications (in our county that is Judge Joseph Rae) will either approve or deny it. We have no control on the how Judge Rae will do so as that remains the judge’s prerogative. For permits to purchase and FID cards, we are averaging about 8 days. We are constantly reevaluating how we process both the electronic and paper applications in an effort to become even more efficient. This, we feel, better serves our residents. Please remember that you can either email, call or stop in should you have any questions concerning your application. Our dedicated staff is well versed and eager to assist you. Thank you! Acting Chief Donald Fritz, Jr.

Update, just received a call from the Sheriffs office my PTC was approved and I need to go in and pick it up.

First - Please define what someone who is a “good shot” is. I bet my definition is a lot different than yours. What metric are you using to determine if a cop is a good shot or a lousy shot? Second - What data are you using to formulate this opinion that cops are all lousy shots? What data are you parsing that shows “cops can not shoot minute of man at 7yards”? Third - In your opinion, what process would adequately test a shooters proficiency? What should a cop (or anyone) be capable of with a firearm to satisfy your criticism? What’s your suggestion? The idea that all cops can’t shoot is frankly ridiculous. All NJ Police Officers are required by law to do the following regarding the carrying of firearms: • Train to realistic standards. ie: shoot on the move, use cover, shoot at moving targets, shoot in low light, participate in shoot/no-shoot or Force on Force situations • Pass a qualification consisting of a Day Time (full lighting conditions)and Low-light course of fire as prescribed by the NJ AG via the NJDCJ. They must pass this course of fire 2x a year with a minimum score of 80%. This qual course consists of 90-100 rounds (depending on if the agency uses HQC1 or HQC2) on an FBI Q target at ranges from 1 yard, out to 25 yards. • Police have to qualify on any weapon they plan on carrying on and off duty. There are separate day time and low-light qualification courses for other classes of firearms as well - such as shotguns, sub-guns, carbines, PDWs, and scoped rifles. Any agency can put further restriction in place (higher minimum passing score, restriction on gun type or caliber, etc…) or require more training if they wish. At the end of the qualification, if you don’t pass the qual, you are relieved of your firearm, placed in administrative status, given a time to train/practice, than an opportunity to qualify again. A failure then means termination. If you can’t shoot an 80% on the course, you can’t stay. Based on my observations at public ranges and teaching both civilians and cops to shoot For the last 18 years, I’ll bet that the average NJ cop can outshoot the average NJ gun owner on a HQC and HNQC test. In fact, I’ll bet that 75% of gun owners could not pass the entire police qualification course - the one that every working cop has to pass twice a year in addition to any training they participate in. I’ll bet another 10% of NJ gun owners will score in the 80% range, another 10% in the 90% range, and another 5% could clean the course and I bet the final 5% consists of shooters that can outshoot most cops by a fair margin by every measurable standard. The notion that “The cops who only shoot once or twice a year to pass that qualification are terrible shots.” is unsubstantiated unqualified nonsense. If they have to pass a qual 2x a year that the majority of non-cop shooters could not pass, just how “terrible” are they? Just because they don’t know what color the boathouse is at Hereford, does not mean they don’t have the skills to accomplish their jobs. No, not all cops are shooters. Not all Cops are even gun people. But they all meet a minimum standard of 80% 2x a year. Cops have to wear so many hats and be mandatorily trained on so many topics now-a-days that there isn’t enough time or money to make them all into DeltaRangerSEALsnipers or steely eyed killers. On the other hand - some cops shoot at the GM level in competition circuits. Some were/are members of SOF or SMU organizations. Some are attached to LE Agencies/Units/teams that require a higher standard than 80% 2x a year. Some shoot as a hobby and enjoy training with firearms, often spending thousands of dollars chasing high-end instruction form some of the best instructors on the planet. Some are in agencies that promote martial abilities, but some are not. It’s not as cut and dry as “all cops suck at shooting”. Part of what @GRIZ was talking about when he said “Shooting isn’t fighting” (outside of the mindset and tactics portion that makes up 90% of any gunfight) is an important distinction. Shooting a qual course and getting 100% does not guarantee you are a gunfighter, or will win a gunfight, or even hit your target in a deadly force situation. No one knows what will happen in the transition between shooting paper with your colleagues and friends under impossibly blue skies filled with cotton ball clouds, next to rivers of chocolate and trees that give beer, and when you are alone and fighting for your life with a very real possibility that you will die. This is not Cop specific and is a universal truth across the board including military, cops, competition shooters, bad guys, and armed citizens. Until you see the proverbial elephant, you don’t know how you will react to that level of personal danger. There is no test, no qual, no training that can predict that.

Back on topic, anyone from Union County get their permit yet?

I'm not disagreeing, but 11 handguns later it's high time you get a revolver or two.

Silly Rabbit You forget the first rule of the Liberal Democratic Elite: ”The rules apply to thee not me”

I would hope contact to the court by an attorney would be enough. But who knows. If formal legal action needs to be taken to make the court act, that needs to be thought out very carefully as the first case could set precedent for all future cases. Seriously, the first case should include as plaintiffs a wounded and decorated Veteran confined to a wheel chair, an elderly person who was critically injured in a robbery, a homosexual who has been the victim of gay bashing, a Muslim who was beat up because of their religion, a black who was beat up because of their race, a woman who was raped, and/or a battered woman seeking to defend herself against an abusive ex-spouse. ^^^ The above is not a joke. As some may recall, the Heller plaintiffs included a gay man who had defended himself from gay bashing in another state with a gun given to him by his mother, and a guard at the U.S. Capital, who was trusted with a firearm to protect members of Congress but who was not allowed to purchase a handgun to protect himself at home. Unfortunately, optics matter.

Well said, 124gr9mm. I personally have a few friends that own, but have never even shot their handguns. The biggest falsehood in the "better shooter" statement is that standing in a port and slow firing at a paper target in any way equals shooting under stress, assault, timer, movement, low light and most importantly being shot back at. It is NOT equal. Just to be clear, your "average" gun-owner has very little if any experience in safely drawing a gun from holster. Very little or no experience in shooting while using a light. Very little or no experience in shooting from cover. Very little or no experience in shooting with movement. Throw any of those conditions in the mix, and I don't believe you average citizen or average gun owner is a better shot. To be honest, I don't think I ever even really try to shoot groups anymore, other than when regulating sights. Its more like acquire sights, focus for distance and squeeze. Its either an acceptable hit, or not; don't really care if the holes are touching.

Agree with this point. IMO, the "average" gun owner has a pistol or two that sits in the back of a closet collecting dust. Once a year (or less) they get the bug to shoot so they dust off the gun, buy some ammo and head to the range. When they get home the gun returns to the back of the closet (without being cleaned) until next year. I don't feel safe shooting next to these guys at the range as shooting is always a novelty to them. For what it's worth, even guys who consider themselves "regular" shooters only go to the range a 2 or 3 times more than the "average" guy. They may have more guns (an AR, shotgun, etc) so they spend a little longer at the range and shoot different guns, but still shoot infrequently. From there you get the more serious "gun guys" who go to the range on a weekly (or a few times a month) basis and probably have experience in club or formal matches. So where does that leave us? Like everything else in life, the more you practice and do something, the more proficient you'll become. That means cops who are "gun guys" and regular citizens who are "gun guys" will be the best shooters. The "average" and "regular" shooters have cop and regular citizens in their population as well, and they will shoot accordingly. I'll qualify my VERY over-simplified rating system by saying it relates only to shooting a gun (accuracy, timing, reloading, moving, etc, etc). I won't get into the combat mindset portion of the debate as I think there are likely buckets for that as well that both civilian and cops would fall into. Going through, or not going through a police academy may not be the best measuring stick for a warrior mindset, but that discussion will stray in a LOT of different directions...

I've owned guns for over 50 yrs. and trained with handguns on and off for the better part of 40. What I've learned is there is always someone better than me who I learn from and most importantly that I don't ever want to use what I learned. Two police officers I used to shoot better than both saved lives in real situations because they were able to use the training they did effectively.

County: Hunterdon Fingerprinted: 6/30 - Easton, PA Applied via: NJSP Washington 6/30 Approved by NJSP Washington: Approx 8/9 Approved by NJSP FIU: 8/15 Received by court: 8/18 Docketed by court: 8/19 Approved by court: 9/14 I don't have it in hand yet, but I'm told it is restricted to the guns I qualified with. When I get the paperwork I'll know about any other details.

I give up, you are blaming this mess, spawn from 100 years of tyranny, on clerks and their immediate Supervisors at the very bottom of the responsibility/power chain which goes all the way up to the AG, Legislators, and Judges...Makes no sense to me but feel free to go down to the PD's that you feel are not doing their job and offer them some process suggestions. Let me know what you accomplish. You're just complaining here about the wrong people, so go visit them with your laundry list of complaints which you believe the clerks have some control over. Good Luck!

Bottom line no one in Union County got one yet, according tote info there.

As horrible as that sounds, it may come to that. They created the policies that they enforce, they should have to follow the very same policy.

I don’t know what it is, but either way it doesn’t matter. They’re going to do whatever they want, your only recourse is to pay thousands of dollars, possibly tens of thousands, to fight them in court over the next year or two.

No, I know the exact date. August 10. The court told me this. They cashed the money order, they told me this too. PD, FIU and NJSP are not cashing money orders. It is the court.

Murder of Carol Bowne - Wikipedia

Agreed, except in your case the court in your area has exceeded the 30 day mark and action should have been taken on your part. I do want to mention Middlesex is also holding apps, but I'm hoping they will start issuing permits before they exceed the apps that are nearly 30 days in.

I'll take it. Full package with extras.

My thoughts on the "delay" in Middlesex County 1) As far as anyone knows -- Other than money orders being cashed there is no action yet on any post-Bruen carry permit out of Middlesex County; 2) The 30 day deadline for at least some police department approved applications received at Middlesex County Court is fast approaching -- But as far as we have heard, the 30 day deadline has not passed for any particular application; 3) The Middlesex Judge responsible for permits is well informed of all the applicable statutes, regulations, Directives and Court Decisions impacting the 30 deadline for approving, denying or holding a hearing on a police department approved carry permit application; 4) My flat out guess (and your guess is a s good as mine) is that the Middlesex Judge is waiting until the 30 day deadline arrives for the first PD approved application received by the Court to see if there is any: Legislative Action, advice from the State Police, or directive from the New Jersey Supreme Court. 5) Absent any unforeseen circumstance, I expect a flood of approved applications coming out of the Middlesex Superior Court in the next 2 weeks.

And if all the initial permits get issued the same day/week this go round — what fun it will be two years from now when all those permits need to be renewed all at the same time!

But this is exactly what happens when a basic right to SD against serious bodily injury and death outside the home is repressed for over 100 years. People want their rights back asap.

beat you to it, I already placed the order with Steve

P30SK, P30, HK45. All V3 with safety. P30SK first so I can do my qualification.

LMFAO I photo-shopped Groucho Marx glasses on her back when Epstein turned up dead. I forgot that was on here.

Your average butcher is better with a knife than most surgeons, just sayin... What exactly is a "better shot"? I personally know hunters that can stack rounds on targets at ludicrous distances, but will miss vitals on deer at 100 yards. Is a bullseye shooter a better shot than an USPSA GM? Or a SEAL? I also think that you're giving waaay too much credit to the "average citizen". Having shot at many ranges, I can definitely say there have been many times when I've felt endangered by the "average citizen".

Gunfighting is more mental than skill with firearms. Some think I buy a $3000 1911, go to a few bullshit 2 day shooting schools, and feel they are proficient gunfighters. You need to understand the belief that cops should be a very good shot is false. Don't believe me? Watch "Mental Preparation for Combat Shooting" by Jeff Cooper. One of the founders of modern combat shooting. The principles he speaks of haven't changed although the video was made about 50 years ago. So if you shoot well on paper targets that's good. But how will you fight? I benefited from NCOs who had already fought in 2 wars when I was in Vietnam. Military combat shooting is different than civilian. More on that if you want. I can tell you stories about how someone that barely qualified put 6 rounds from his Model 10 S&W in the target that stopped the BG. Not a $3000 gun. I can also tell you stories about cops who carried "wonder 9s". Qualified expert every time they qualified who dumped 15 rds toward the target...and didn't hit it once. Having been a police firearms instructor since 1976 I've seen it all. One of the things that restricts most police agencies is budget. I still do private instruction. I charge good money for that but have also have those after maybe 5-6 hrs on the range told my client "don't carry a gun, you'd only be fooling yourself. Keep a gun at home when you'll be shooting at 10 feet. Carry a pepper blaster." Smaller agencies don't have the money to spend like larger agencies. Some agencies in NJ only can afford the 2x a year qualification. When I worked for a municipal police department in NJ. it was 2 quals a year, duty weapon only. I had a chief, who didn't belong as chief because he hated cops. When I went to a Federal agency it was qualification and training 4x a year. About 200rds for training. Plus 100 rds a month for practice. You can ask anyone who has been on this forum since inception. They can verify my credentials. FWIW I saw a stat years ago. Cops will shoot in a lethal force confrontation before civilians. That's because of their training. WTF DO I KNOW. I have never been an advocate of only cops carrying guns.

Your civic duty is to your fellow citizens, not the court. Your beef is with the state legislators, not the citizens. Those who dodge jury duty don’t deserve a jury.

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It probably was mine. You should seek legal advice on that. Unless you've lost eyesight or a limb I don't see it being an issue.

Here's a good one for you guys/gals, I just handed in my paperwork on the 8th and yesterday I was sent a summons for jury duty. I can not afford the time off to sit around on my laptop for potentially a week or more. (The selection process is virtual.) I tried explaining this and the judge denied it wanting a form to verify financial hardship. They did say I could be excused as a type 1 diabetic, but I would need a note from the endocrinologist. Finally! A benefit of having this disease. I could easily get that, but my worry is that using this excuse could put my carry permit in jeopardy. I called lawshield and am waiting for a call back. This type of timing would only happen to me. For those interested its Middlesex county and the assignment judge is Michael A. Toto. I'll report back with what lawshield advises me to do.

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https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1024499517

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All while praying that you don't have a failure to feed, have enough space to manipulate the slide without short stroking, and...having 1 less round available to you.

Nobody says that. Also, nobody says that drawing, finding something solid enough to rack the gun on, racking the gun, then presenting the gun is as efficient as drawing the gun and then immediately presenting the gun. Also, his ability to reload is meaningless with respect to his ability to get the gun into the fight initially. It might only be relevant if he was starting with no mag in the gun either, but nobody is that afraid of an ND, I'm sure.

Jeeze @marlintag, you're getting angry but it seems to me that you both AGREE Sometimes we look for a fight where one doesn't exist...

It's more of a handsgun technique.

Not a very good technique if your support hand is unavailable for some reason: Managing a child, grappling with your assailant, injured, etc.

So many blatantly false, exaggerated, and inaccurate statements here...one could write an entire book in response... Don't bother arguing....It won't matter how much sense you make.

Then he should have called the court! I called the court 3 times, and I got the info I needed. I know exactly when my application was received, I know who cashes the money orders and I know the date my money order was cashed. Whining to Strike Force may not be the most effective course of action.

Day 50 I called Berkley Township PD this morning My file is still sitting in a stack waiting for the Chiefs signature was told the same thing last Friday. Kim said I'm probably looking at another week She said there's over 100 Applications. She has not received any info from the Court on any of the Apps already sent in. ZERO PERMITS ISSUED SO FAR IN BERKLEY

FedEx down more than 15% in after hour trading after issueing an "ominous warning about the global economy." "Global volumes declined as macroeconomic trends significantly worsened later in the quarter, both internationally and in the U.S." FedEx CEO Raj Subramaniam warned in the release. "We are swiftly addressing these headwinds, but given the speed at which conditions shifted, first quarter results are below our expectations. The story goes on to state that they will be starting "Cost-cutting measures outlined by FedEx include reducing flights, temporarily parking aircraft, closing more than 90 FedEx office locations, and deferring hiring plans." And in closing states that "The preliminary results from FedEx, which is viewed as a bellwether for the global economy, sent shares of UPS (UPS) and Amazon (AMZN) lower in after hours trading; UPS shares lost more than 5% while Amazon was down around 2% late Thursday." Bold emphasis is from me. In English...things are worsening quickly. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/fed-ex-economic-warning-after-hours-movers-september-14-220428377.html

LOL seriously you need lawshield to tell you how to get out of jury duty? Jury duty is the most basic and easy thing to avoid and I got perm removed from the jury duty pool with one simple statement Just tell them you will use Jury nullification and nullify. Watch how fast they dismiss you and you'll probably never be selected again. I was selected once about 10+ years ago. I told them I dont have time for this crap and the second im selected the DA will get a loss as I will nullify just out of spite for wasting my time. I was told I was dismissed and didn;t have to show up and have never seen another jury duty slip again. Before anyone spouts that its your "civic duty" blah blah yea just like its their duty to uphold and support the constitution and here we are now still begging to carry (all that money spent and the permit is only good for a laughable 2 years) and they are still playing games with the permits and restrictions. As far as im concerned its only fair to do on to them as they do on to us

who's says he can't rack the slide off his belt, holster, some hard surface? he's simply illustrating the basic technique which he has mastered and his reloads would put many to shame.

You "been around a while" and "tried different techniques" so, you know it all right? I have also tried different techniques and like I said earlier there may be times where condition 3 is warranted like around small children or in certain locales. Keep in mind, that in other countries they have to do condition 3. I also don't see how its "more dangerous" when the operator in the video can clearly handle himself and though I did not place him against a timer, he appears to be lock step with many LEO's i have seen at the range who are practicing their draws. You will not find a reputable instructor in this country that advocates for this method of carry. Plus, if you ever speak with an Israeli instructor that is honest, they will agree that their method is inferior to carrying with a round chambered. Ok, enter Cherev Gidon Cherev Gidon - Israeli Tactical Training Academy - HOME He trains people in the Israeli style of pistol combat including the draw. Now, i will agree with you that condition 3 carry is not popular here and that many instructors will not teach it, but there are places in the US who specifically cater to this type of training. Open up your mind a little.