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It was not that stringent. 15 yards is not that far. Can you draw, fire, hit the target from 2-15yrds 80% of the time, and reload your gun safely on command in a very reasonable time limit? I passed very easily with 50 out of 50 mostly in a tight group with a 3.3" gun and I don't consider myself a great shot. The majority of the issues where because people were not proficient enough with their guns to either operate them properly or safely under just a little stress. Imagine what would happen in a real world life or death situation. These people would be putting innocent by standers at risk. There were people who could not operate the safety, could not operate the slide lock, could not seat the mag properly when reloading, where flagging people when reloading, or could not even hit the paper. If you feel you are this bad with your gun and can't pass, don't go somewhere else that doesn't actually test you. You have a much higher chance of winding up in jail or dead and making the rest of the CCW community look bad and be an example to the gun grabbers why CCW needs to be more restrictive. Just don't do it. If you think you cannot pass the simple test TTC gives, you really should not carry until you are proficient enough to do so. Buying some $10 snap caps and doing some dry fire training with your gun at home would have helped these people tremendously. You don't just go out and buy a gun and think you can CCW. You should be experienced, you should be proficient, you should be able to hit a large paper target at 15 yards that isn't shooting back at you.

Regardless, a qual is mandatory. So, instead of wishing for an easier test, work to be a better shooter. 25 yard shots with a 3” barrel is not a challenge - unless you never train at that distance. ETA: I just wanted to say that Pre-Covid, I was a member at @TacticalTrainingCenter. I went just about every other Wednesday evening after work for a couple years. For almost a year we ended up having almost an informal NJGF meet up there, with a mix of 4 or 6 forum members meeting on the regular. I have only been back a few times in the last 6 months or so, and in my experience, nothing has changed. The staff is as pleasant, helpful, and eager to share their knowledge and experience as they ever were.

Reminds me of when I was in bootcamp. Prior to joining the military, I was busting my ass working two jobs. Bootcamp was fairly easy for me, but not for most. The goal of drill instructors is to break people down to the same basic level. Get rid of the egos. Shave everyone’s head and get them into the same clothing. Remove individuality. Get people to work as a team. Teach very basic skills at the level of the least common denominator. Seems pretty simple. Au contraire! The simple act of following basic instructions to fold underwear and tee shirts was mind boggling to some. Nothing against people from the south, but they seemed like the slowest, weakest link in the bunch. No matter how many times you teach them how to fold a tee shirt, they still managed to screw it up. Think of the movie Platoon. Plenty of examples in that movie. Where am I going with this, and how does this apply to this thread? No matter how hard you try to teach someone something, they just may not be able to focus and absorb what you are telling them. It could be nerves, lack of confidence, lack of concentration, or they just don’t give a damn. That’s why it’s so important that instructors doing CCW qualifications do not just push people through and pass them if they don’t know the basics of handgun safety, operation and marksmanship. Fail them and make them practice some more and pay to qualify again. We shouldn’t settle for mediocrity just to have more people with guns on their hips. Let’s prove the left wrong by promoting safe and responsible concealed carry.

I completely agree, and I may be in the minority, but I think that every person regardless of their employment has the right to carry without all the stupid stuff that you have to jump through, all the arbitrary requirements etc All of it is nonsensical BS ….. as strong as my belief and respect of the constitution..my opinion may stray from the original wording in that my only requirement would be …as long as you’re not a person prohibited from owning a firearm, you should be able to carry one concealed or open. If that’s your choice it shouldn’t be a requirement to qualify out to X number of yards etc. not everyone I work with shares that opinion however

Yes, most of the stuff was Holster Draw, but some was from ready position. The idea was to see how you handled the gun in the ready position and make sure you kept it safe. They did 2 hand, strong hand, holstered, ready position, standing and kneeling. 2-15yrds.

This sounds like a similar qual that TTC is doing but TTC only goes out to 15yards and there was no sitting or weak hand shooting. Why do you think the one you took was easy for you but TTC's with less requirements is overly stringent? What I saw was that TTC's qual method worked and exposed those that were not proficient. I was just surprised so many people showed up that hadn't practiced in a while and thought they would pass. Without looking at the scores, just by watching them shoot I knew who was going to fail. For most who failed, it was pretty obvious. TTC did not want people to fail, and even helped out and gave extra time to some if they had to reload if the course of fire did not call for a reload.

Very well said. If you can’t score above 90% out to 15 yards, you have no business carrying a gun. I saw so many people that looked like they just bought their gun and then tried to qualify, but failed. Couldn’t even perform basic safe handling. Do us all a favor and practice, get some training, and then try to qualify.

Indian > Arrow

One of my guns I qualified with was a Seecamp 380 mouse gun with a 2” barrel out to 25 yards. Passed with an 88%.

Total nonsense. I qualified at TTC last Sunday, and it was a piece of cake. It is NOT the police qualification, and only goes out to 15 yards. We had 16 people in our group, and one person failed. He failed because he did not know how to operate his pistol. They did the qualifications in two groups of eight people. The guy next to me lost count of his rounds and only shot 38 of 50. They let him go in the 2nd group and he passed, no problem. The staff at TTC is fantastic, and extremely supportive.

AFT should be disbanded or made into a convenience store

Having focus is always good advice as well. I like where this .308 conversation is going since it's completely new to me. Building one sounds interesting, didn't occur to me! Thanks for the input so far, I'll read up on some options.

get some aero receivers and put one together? I put a nice one together although it's only been to the range 2x and now just sits. A 1-8x sits on it now. no issues on both trips, accurate and right at 16" as I built it to be a bush gun of sorts. Had it to 330yds, fun to shoot. If you don't want to build one there are options but more money and 308 is my favorite caliber, love it

Something that reaches out with authority. The 308 sounds like a good idea.

As trainers/coaches the ability to guide someone through the four levels of achievement - from level 1 (unconscious Incompetence) through at least a solid grounded base at level 3 (conscious competence) and a glimpse at level 4 (unconscious competence) is priority. As is giving the trainee the tools necessary to obtain and remain in level 4 for many of the task associated with gunfighting. Sometimes the hardest part is navigating through level one where the student has no frame of reference and doesn’t know what they don’t know. This is usually worse in students with egos and student who base their knowledge on movies and video games. With patience and a strong curriculum, you can usually punch through - but damn, it’s difficult and sometimes the “rule of 100” has to be applied. This is more common than you would hope. I see this the most when teaching low-light classes. Even very experienced shooters feel a need to re-assure themselves that the trigger did not disappear with the coming of the dark-monster by touching it when they shouldn’t be. It’s weird.

Amen to that, brother!! Let’s all set the example for responsible ownership and lawful carry.

A good bolt rifle in .308 would be a nice addition. Howa, Tikka, Bergara, and others are reasonably priced and very accurate out of the box. Just don't go cheap on the scope...

anyone applied in a county that issues same day? I’m willing to drive. Centre county? Thinking of making a day trip out of it.

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/guns/2022/09/30/id/1089931/ This should slow down the AG a bit.

Shall not be....

Does this surprise you? A Federal officer wasting government based resources, and screwing the little guy at the same time....

Come on, thats not cool. Its gonna take a long time no matter what. I've been waiting 25 years (since I was 18) and some of you even longer. Everyone has a right to apply and we should SUPPORT that. In time we'll all see, we're modern pioneers. The ones that take the risk of applying and getting denied or restricted before the process is forced to be more Constitution-compliant. Its simply a long painful process right now and one person testing the system isn't going to mess it up for anyone. Not an attack on you, I'd just say simmer down a little.

It sure does. Junk silver is getting harder and harder to find, and premiums are quite high on it now. It used to be one of the cheapest ways to buy silver, but not anymore. US Mint coins are rarely counterfeited, so junk silver is a safe bet. Pre-65 dimes, quarters and halves are a great way to accumulate 90% silver coins. Keep an eye on the premiums, check Craigslist, coin dealers, coin shows, and eBay. I started my silver stacking in the late 70’s after getting some 1964 Kennedy halves as change at a store. Now it’s almost impossible to find any in circulation. Some people search rolls of half dollars from banks, but it’s not worth the time and effort anymore.

Wow, that’s is very easy qual!

This is false. The subcompact Glocks (G26/G27 size) are inherently the most mechanically accurate pistols Glock makes - even with OEM barrels. You do not need a “marksman” barrel to get hits at 25 yards. You need to get training and practice. Short sights and short barrels don’t matter out to 25 yrds regardless of the gun. It’s the software, not the hardware.

Remeber everyone, according to the Left, only Law Enforcement and the Military are professioanl enough to handle firearms. LOL.

Court mailed mine to PD today. Will pick up in a few days!

The media finally gets a story where they could use “assault rifle” correctly. It’s one of their favorite phrases, after all. And yet it doesn’t appear in the text.

On the other hand, if you shoot much at all it’s pretty easy to pass the full HQC1 course. Even with a 3” bbl pistol. I’m not saying it should be a requirement, just that it’s not much of a barrier.

If i hear anything, ill def let you know.

New ‘My Pillow’ ad. https://rumble.com/v1m31vq-best-pillow-commercial-ever.html

Nj permit mess

Seems like someone ended up on the wrong forum lol but to answer your multiple rhetorical questions….yes to all and “reasonable limits” are a means to restrict and deny inalienable rights

You take your driver's license and a small little compact car, they give you your driver's license, with that you can go out and drive a 60 ft motorhome, pulling a trailer with your personal vehicle on it, and they have no issues with that?

What about if your DL had a restriction that said you can't drive to a restaurant that served alcohol even if you aren't drinking.

What if when you got your driver's license, they told you that you can only drive the car that you got tested in? You telling me that it's okay to drive any car because you have a license because you showed you know how to drive, but when you go to show that you know how to handle gun they tell you you can only handle that one?

9/29 deptford township Gloucester county. Permit in hand! Restricted to guns qualified with. Can amend order anytime by mailing in new quals.

Blue wall, so it doesn't matter.

F'ing ATF - report some guns, get your entire storage unit searched...

Can I Speak to Mom? Hello?” “Hi honey this is Daddy. Is Mommy near the phone?” “No Daddy. She’s upstairs in the bedroom with Uncle Paul.” After a brief pause, Daddy says, “But honey, you haven’t got an Uncle Paul.” “Oh yes I do, and he’s upstairs in the room with Mommy, right now.” Brief Pause. “Uh, okay then, this is what I want you to do. Put the phone down on the table, run upstairs and knock on the bedroom door and shout to Mommy that Daddy’s car just pulled into the driveway.” “Okay Daddy, just a minute.” A few minutes later the little girl comes back to the phone. “I did it Daddy.” “And what happened honey?” he asked. “Well, Mommy got all scared, jumped out of bed with no clothes on and ran around screaming. Then she tripped over the rug, hit her head on the dresser and now she isn’t moving at all!” “Oh my God!!! What about your Uncle Paul?” “He jumped out of the bed with no clothes on, too. He was all scared and he jumped out of the back window and into the swimming pool. But I guess he didn’t know that you took out the water last week to clean it. He hit the bottom of the pool and I he isn’t moving either.” Long Pause Longer Pause Even Longer Pause Then Daddy says, “Swimming pool? Is this 486-5731?”

Totally agree not your keys not yoir coins. For the folks that don't know. Its when you take your crypto off the exchanges and place in your private wallet . That no one can take from you. The equivalent of withdrawaling tour funds from the bank and keeping it in your possession in a secure wallet. That's the cliff notes. Can be discussed further if you like.

I've had one for several years and no issues with performance or reliability. Shoots straight and eats whatever ammo i feed it (though i've never shot steel cased). I've used it for Steel Challenge/Knowckdown shooting and at the range. If you get one there are two things you'll change. 1 - It has more recoil than you'd think so you'll want to add some kind of pad to the buttstock. 2 - the stock trigger is a plastic piece of garbage. It's sharp and it flexes, so replace it with an aluminum trigger - https://www.mcarbo.com/blem-sub-2000-curved-trigger-blk.aspx From there it's good to go. Lots of people add an optic, larger charging handle, etc, etc, but IMO that's a bit like adding lipstick on a pig...

You're going to go broke with all that practicality. A rimfire SA revolver is only impractical for something like self defense, it has TONS of practicality otherwise. It's cheap to shoot, and the mechanics promote concentration on trigger discipline because you aren't going pew-pew-pew-pew-pew-pew. A SA revolver will make you a better shooter. In my book, that's very practical.

This. IMO the people who received the rifles did the right thing by contacting ATF. Hopefully the ATF does the right thing and doesn't try to charge the people with anything...