Leaderboard

I think everyone who isn't a police officer should be treated the same according to the law - no matter what their former career was.

Well, the day has finally arrived. Picked up my PTC today from Scotch Plains PD in Union County. App was submitted on 8/15 so little over 2 months.

PBA advocated for this, btw. If you listened to the hearing, they willingly sacrificed us so the retirees can keep their perk of being able to carry everywhere. I find the whole thing disgusting. The 2A is for everyone, not just retired police.

And your wallet, cell phone, house keys, passport, birth certificate, SSN, H.S. diploma, library card, marriage license, PBA card, credit cards, ATM card (with PIN), hunting license, dog license (with proof of rabies vax), photos of the wife and kids..

Maybe if NJ police chiefs had to be elected like NY sheriffs, instead of being appointed, we'd see more advocacy from them. Any PBA donation request I get is going straight in the trash next time they come around.

I think that's a rational take. Yes, it's their "job" ... and legally it will help us. That said, I wonder if the BPA and their brethren are considering the public relations impact of this recent action? After all, in the recent "defund the police" era - when so much horrific scorn (and even violence) has been wrongly hurled against police - the sort of law-abiding citizen that applies for a carry concealed permit is very often the exact SAME sort of citizen that has been sticking up steadfastly for cops this entire time. How much sense does it make to stoke resentments amongst some of your biggest supporters, particularly when supporters seem to be few and far between these days? Perhaps it was a bit short-sighted from that perspective. It doesn't reduce my respect for the work they do one iota... but it will certainly dampen the enthusiasm of others. That's a shame.

***DELETED***

I was a Deputy Sheriff in another State for 7 years. In most states, the state constitution names the sheriff as the Chief Law Enforcement Officer in their County and gives him his authority and responsibility. Here is a quote from a Michigan Sheriff's website. The Sheriff has Jurisdiction across his entire county and is said to be the Chief Law Enforcement Official of the county and having the ability to be the “Buffer” between the People and Government. While Upholding the rule of law for the government, the Sheriff also has the ability to uphold the Constitutional rights of the People to protect them from Government Over-reach on a Local, State and Federal Level. In the PRNJ, the Chief LEO is the prosecutor. According to the state of NJ: Under New Jersey law, the county prosecutor functions as the chief law enforcement officer for the county. Each county prosecutor is charged with the obligation to use all reasonable and lawful diligence in the detection, arrest, indictment and conviction of people who violate the criminal laws of New Jersey. Also in PRNJ, the prosecutor is appointed by the Governor.

While I don't like it, I understand it. The PBA lobbyist has one job - to advocate for PBA members. He's made the tactical decision that in this environment he can't advocate for us proles in order to give the "only ones" the best chance at what they want. All the disparities end up helping us in the long run - the more inequalities of treatment/outcome, the more ammo for the court arguments.

The PBA rep should not have a seat at the table.

***DELETED***

Indeed. I have three friends in my 'inner circle' who are cops (one recently retired) and they're all honest enough to acknowledge that the rules that apply to the rest of us do not extend to them. "Professional courtesy" gets them out of trouble with each other, and horseshit like 'disorderly conduct' or 'not following a lawful order' are used when they're interacting with someone who is "pissing them off" or being "rude or disrespectful".

seems to me that this was an echo chamber disguised as an honest hearing......

In other countries police lock up their guns in a locker at the station at the end of a shift. They don’t get to keep them after they leave and certainly not for retirement. I’m certain this bill was intended as a trial balloon to see if retired police would even notice. Eventually I know the state will target them. Only a matter of time. Today we the people are being sacrificed to keep the RPO perk, tomorrow it won’t be so easy.

I can understand the frustration and anger towards the PBA and the guy that testified. But I am hesitant to paint all LEO with the same brush. Just like we do not want to be lumped in with the irresponsible gun owners. I'm not just talking about the prohibited people here either. What about the people who leave guns within easy access of children, or people in other States with a CCW and brandish it or worse over a parking space dispute, etc... As mentioned previously, a union's job is to their members first; that does not mean every member agrees with the union bosses or supports them. Teachers in NJ are required to be a union member or they don't have a job. Do you think they agree with every stance the union takes? I know there are many that don't. Are cops required to be a PBA member? I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were. Don't all LEO take an oath to uphold The Constitution? Doctors are punished if they violate their Hippocratic oath, don't they? Also, we have LEO on this forum. I've met at least one face to face, I truly believe he supports the 2A, us and our right to carry and defend ourselves. Should he and the others be put in the same group as the guy from the PBA? I don't put him there or judge him based on the PBA. Pick any profession, group, association, etc... there will always be good members and bad, it is human nature. As also mentioned above, maybe the members of the PBA will take notice, realize the potential for damage from a public relations standpoint and vote in better leadership.

Oh I understand completely. But in NY, sheriffs are refusing to enforce their unconstitutional gun laws. We don't see that in NJ, partially because of the carve outs.

I bet we'd all be really outraged if we found out who really wrote the original bill. Based on their apparent lack of knowledge on the bill details, I'm guessing it's NOT the sponsors.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/24/politics/supreme-court-lindsey-graham-clarence-thomas/index.html If Lindsey Graham can ask for relief from the SC and it happens almost instantly why do we always have to wait for ever, If my research was accurate it looks as if Samuel Alito handles emergency requests from the 3rd circuit and he sided with Thomas on the Bruen case.

what about a fanny pack for the car?

Normally its a fool and their money is quickly departed but with you its going to be a fool and their freedom .... Don't offer any additional information to the police when its not required or needed. I can say this as I work with them...most police in NJ are more like oversized babies and very power /control happy. (the chiefs/ deputy chiefs are the worst) You invite nothing but problems giving up information that they just dont need to know about. I was out of state the other week where my non resident FFL allows me to carry. I had an issue which an officer offered to help and without going into more details than that I never once informed them I was carrying as I was carrying correctly. But go ahead and flash that PTC around to the police when its not needed and maybe I can get a deal when you become a prohibited person and forced to sell your guns on the forums? Remember where you are they will look for a reason to take your guns away. Keep your damn mouth shut if you know whats best for you, lol.

My prediction is that the Cancel Carry Bill will be voted on this week and pass. Then it will be up to ANJRPC, the NRA and the FPC to challenge this in court. This is NJ and all logic on firearms possession and carry is rejected. To say that banning citizens who have taken classes, qualified on a range, vetted with three background checks, from carrying in both public and private places is not only wrong it is unconstitutional. To hear both the state and local police associations state that they support this bill is frightening. Concealed carry holders would carry just as responsibly as police would. We are law abiding, peaceable and should not be prejudged as criminals.

Lumpy⬆︎

Good luck. Let us know if you get a reply.

You need to get some new friends

Legit option in my opinion. Consistent with the way people do it in states that require notification. For me I'd rather avoid the drama that will almost certainly come with the initial traffic stops with permit holders. I fully expect it will turn into an event where multiple backup cars and a supervisor arrive and they all look for ANYTHING they can use to jam up the driver...