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Wow…. Both of those guns are inherently capable of scoring 100% on a HQC - Meaning they are mechanically accurate enough to get scoring hits at 25yards. I have qualed with a JFrame and a Ruger LCP with no issues. Instead of wishing for an easier test, practice harder to be a better shot. It’s a win-win.

Greetings. I think you're relatively new, so welcome to the forum. I agree with the previous opinions that mechanically the two handguns you mentioned can pass the test. So it appears the issue is your shooting technique. Have you considered getting some instruction? A competent instructor may be able to guide you to a much better score. But more importantly, I think you should consider what might happen if you're carrying those handguns. What will happen if you need to use them in self-defense? If your accuracy is less than adequate, where will the other rounds end up and what will that mean to you? It might be very unpleasant. If you were an 'expert' with a 9mm Beretta, there's no handgun mechanical characteristic that would prevent you from becoming an expert with your choice of CCH. So I have to disagree that your best course is finding a more lenient course of fire to pass qualification. IMO you should consider improving your skills where you can easily pass all the courses of fire that have been referenced. And then some. This has nothing to do with New Jersey and handgun permit regulations. It has to do with the best outcome for you out on the street. This is what I have done. Keep at it and good luck.

I picked up my permit this week! Applied mid-late Sept Money Order cashed around Nov 1 Approved by Morris County Superior Court last week. About 130 days after application, including the weekends and quite a few court holidays. On top of that, before applying I spent over a month collecting paperwork and mailing forms around for reference signatures and waiting to get a slot to fire the HQC. All-in-all, close to 5 months and almost $400 for the entire process. References weren't contacted. I have a two page court order which lists the handguns on my qualification form and specifies I'm limited to carrying only those, unless I have the permit amended to add additional guns. No other restrictions checked. I have to carry the court order; the detective recommended keeping a copy in my glove box, and a clear scan of the document on my phone as the best way to meet that requirement. I still need to clean up the poorly cut edges of the printed permit, and laminate the thing. I can't decide if I'm more happy to have it, or pissed off at how difficult the state made the entire process.

This is a terrible attitude. Carry a gun you can actually shoot.

Keep practicing!

Respectfully, you shouldn't be coming to an internet forum like this for the kind of "absolute" you're looking for. As the the question of municipalities selectively enforcing a TRO, it makes no sense. The law was passed by Murphy. The judge issued a TRO for parts of the law which essentially strikes them...temporarily. Municipalities don't get to selectively enforce something that isn't a law. Well, I guess they could try to, but as soon as you got in front of a judge the case would be tossed. If you currently have a carry permit and are exercising it in a way that's protected by the TRO but would otherwise be against the law if it wasn't in place, then you would be very wise to stay on top of the court proceedings so you'll know which way the decision lands. What's allowed one day could quickly be illegal the next.

I assume you can print in 2 point font, in a suitable color combination.

They are being funded by a couple rich guys and do what they want so they get to keep their jobs….Dummies in NJ keep voting for them because they keep getting free stuff.

I'd love for it to happen, but we're talking about legislation that has to be voted on, not a Supreme Court decision that nullifies existing law because it's unconstitutional.. Many Democrats base a significant part of their platforms on being "anti gun". You will not get enough Democrat votes to support any pro 2A gun legislation, and you will not get a Democratic President (particularly this one) to sign any pro 2A bill into law.

NLFS

NLFS

NLFS

OK, I've received two emails from "Gun Owners Foundation", and their email address is "[email protected]". The email content is formatted exactly like Gun Owners of America's. You know... GOA? Except this is not Gun Owners of America, and there's no website at 'gunownerusa.com'. The subject is "RE: Our lawsuit to STOP the ATF’s pistol ban ". I think this is a scam/fishing setup leveraging off the ATF ruling to grab some fast money. If you don't pay attention to the details you might easily think it's GOA calling and click on Contribute. Especially if you're used to GOA email formats. It was caught in my commercial SPAM filter. If someone has information to the contrary please post. Otherwise watch out.

Plenty of people think the government shouldn't be requiring it. However, you won't find many arguing against having, and maintaining, a high level of proficiency with the weapon you'll be carrying.

If you can't hit a Q target 80% of the time at those distances with those guns, you really should either get rid of those guns and get ones you can hit the target with and get training/practice with the guns you plan on using. To answer your question about places with an easier course of fire or reduced pass rate: No. The only places allowed to certify are NJSP certified testers. They rely on a standardized test. I believe there are 3 different standardized test that can be used, but most use a modified version (no low light portion) of the easiest test. Point being the test is as already as easy as its going to get. I was able to to get 50 out of 50 with all 3 of my guns, including a 3.3" barrel compact. If you can't pass it, you probably shouldn't get your permit anyways. I appreciate that you were an expert in the army and that's awesome, but it is a perishable skill. If you haven't been practicing on the regular, you won't be at the same level you once were.

Thanks for that post. I don't have a Troy A4, but I have something else subject to this whole farce. Removing the stabilizing brace does make the firearm compliant. I have heard nothing to the contrary on this. But I believe this gentleman is wrong when he says of the brace "you can still have it, it just can't be installed". If you have a stabilizing brace in your possession (at least at the same site as the pistol), I believe that amounts to constructive intent and is a no-no.

I don't know of any, though they may be out there. I do know of harder qualifying courses than Gun for Hire. Some facilities use the same HQC-1 course the police use for qualification--holster draw, strong hand, weak hand, standing-to-kneeling stages... But as far as I know, the state hasn't been pushing back on the easier qualification courses, they just cling to their 80% number, not worrying themselves that they never specified 80% of what. Practice a lot with the .38, including a great deal of dry firing, so that you can easily pass the qualification. Maybe qualifying with the little .380 is not to be. The gun is almost certainly capable, but as you note, it's harder to do. Most ranges let you sign up for two passes over the course, and if you qualify with the .38 on the first try, you can alway try with the .380 on the second. Check in advance to make sure they offer a course of fire suitable for 6 shot handguns. Not everyone does.

But if you can't hit more then a few feet away with it then why are you carrying it? I hope I don't have loved ones behind your target. Very irresponsible in my opinion. Sign up for a class.

OK, thanks. I think I'll email the real GOA about this and see what they say. Depending on what they say I'll also ask the 'Gun Owners Foundation'.

Further to my above post. TechOps International posted an update yesterday explaining how to make your Troy A4 compliant. (Hint: just remove the brace.) or optionally convert it into a rifle. See link below. https://www.facebook.com/techopsintl/videos/1176474603234920

Lawrence Township, Quakerbridge Mall, Has always had the policy, 2/2/23

Next time these politicians say they are "confident" that it will go their way in the end, we should ask them to bet their career on it. If they lose, they have to leave politics to the people who actually know and understand the constitution.

As a person who owns a sign business, it will be fun when someone calls asking for this.

One of Judge Bumb's colleagues in CA who has been applying law correctly pre-Bruen, is Judge Benitez. Full San Francisco Chronicle article is behind a paywall but viewable as text only here. Here's two pull quotes that are telling: The American Bar Association rated Benitez as unqualified, largely because of what foes described as his unfavorable temperament. But Feinstein (that would be CA's very liberal/progressive US Senator) — who 10 years earlier had sponsored a nationwide federal ban on large-capacity, semiautomatic weapons, which Congress allowed to expire in 2004 — praised Benitez’s “superb demeanor, intelligence, pragmatism and fairness,” and helped him win Senate confirmation on a 98-1 vote. In his April 2020 decision overturning voter-approved background checks for buyers of ammunition, Benitez observed, “Criminals, terrorists and tyrants don’t do background checks.” “I don’t believe this judge would uphold a single gun law anywhere,” Robyn Thomas, then-executive director of the San Francisco-based Gifford Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, said after Benitez’s 2021 ruling. Gun advocates said the criticisms were unfounded. “The judge is a fair, thorough and thoughtful jurist who holds the state to its burden of proof,” C.D. Michel, attorney for the California Rifle and Pistol Association, the NRA’s state affiliate, said Wednesday. “As a refugee from the Cuban revolution, he has seen tyranny up close and personal.” Michel said the Supreme Court’s new standard “requires the state to present evidence, not platitudes or press conferences, to justify the infringement of the Second Amendment’s fundamental protections. That’s what the governor resents.” Another advocacy group, the Firearms Policy Coalition, called Newsom “just another opportunistic authoritarian politician with a hair stylist.” In the upcoming cases, the group said, “he will lose and he knows it.”

Mercer County

@Displaced Texan you realize those Tupperware boxes were a requirement of the Austrian military. They required a storage box for the G17 where they could put a locking rod through the trigger guard to secure the pistols in the arms room.

But not in a good way…

They can’t disobey a court order. The judge’s order is binding on all of New Jersey.

Ok good. Cause thats embarrassing. I guess the first 100 or less. Got them all ghetto spelled

It’s spelled right. I’m guess they figured it out:)

I believe it’s “conspicuously” posted. Is what it says. Im 6’. If it’s within 5’-7’. Its good for me. I went into an eyeglass store the other week. The sign was at the entrance about a foot from the ground. I walked in with no concerns.

Read it again. How is protection spelled? Every mercer county permit ive seen. And mine. The morons spelled protection incorrectly!!

I am not a lawyer either, but my reading of the law is that a person can be charged with a disorderly persons offense (which is punishable in NJ by up to six months in jail, and is essentially a NJ version of misdemeanor) according to NJ 2C:18-3.b(2): https://lis.njleg.state.nj.us/nxt/gateway.dll/statutes/1/2753/2909

We had that in 2017 and 2018, and it didn't go anywhere. There's no chance it would pass the senate now.

I'm not a lawyer, but you would be wise to abide by the rules of an order you were given by the court. If you don't agree with the stipulations in the order or if you feel that there is new legislation that renders the stipulation in the order moot, then you should contact the court and get THEM to provide you with an updated order (or a letter indicating the order is rescinded). You can't ignore a court order.

IMO, it's better to have it and not need it then it is to need it and not have it.

So our governor is is encouraging people to post gun free zone signs. The first person who is robbed or worse at gunpoint will wonder why his sign was not honored, hmmmmm. Maybe we should pass a law removing qualified immunity for stupid advice offered by state officials so people can drag politicians into court.

I think this shows a pretty good interaction. Pulled over for expired registration. Things could have gone badly if the LEOs freaked out. But everyone stayed calm and polite, ended well.

Oh stop. There's a difference between having a conversation with a cop and offering "any information that was requested". I was pulled over on my way to Cherry Ridge last spring and when the cop asked where I was headed (as they always do), I told him I was out for an extended lunch break for the first time in a month because things had been so busy at work. I told him I work from home so I usually end up cutting lunch short, but that day was too nice out so I was going to get some time just for me. No wife, no kids, just me and some open air. Way too much information, but who fucking cares? I didn't say "I'm on my way to Cherry Ridge with rifles, pistols, a shotgun, and hundreds of rounds of ammo", and I didn't say "I don't answer questions to police officers during traffic stops". He laughed and went back to his car. He came back after running my information and just gave me a warning. Yes, the cop may have suspected where I was headed, but my story was plausible (and it was the truth) and he was satisfied that I wasn't on drugs or otherwise a danger to society. Had he asked to search my vehicle, I'd simply reply, "no I'd rather not. I don't want to waste any more of my lunch break than possible on the side of the road". Being able to interact with cops doesn't mean you're licking their boots.

Not a stupid question at all. I'm not a lawyer, but in that scenario you haven't really gone afoul of any gun laws, so you're not an instant felon. You ignored the sign, so the owners will likely be pissed and have you "trespassed" by the police. That means you're no longer allowed in the store and you'd be arrested if you went there again. So that means be aware of the signs on places you go and don't let your gun poke out from under your shirt.

That's been my experience. Been pulled over doing 95 three different times, one time admitted to drinking (i may or may not have been over the limit, not sure) and honesty got me out of it each time. No hostility and no issues. But I think it largely depends on the police officer. Some just hate everyone or just want to exert their power/authority. Some want to keep the public safe and not hassle good people over minor stuff. Its like a box of chocolates. That being said, I've probably watched 1000+ 1st amendment audits and I feel empowered to assert my rights when I deem necessary. I know the absolutists would say to do so every time. If I get pulled over for a traffic infraction, I would probably be honest because that has served me very well in the past. If its a situation where they want to search my car, even though I have nothing to hide, I will refuse consent and tell them to get a warrant. When I was younger I thought that saying no to a search was the same as saying "i have something to hide" and they would find it anyways and as such was subject to numerous searches. Of course, I was a good kid but ignorant to my rights. I guess, case by case and to each their own.

And now here's the response whining: https://www.politico.com/news/2023/01/31/judge-new-jersey-law-gun-industry-00080467 At least they didn't call the judge "radical right wing" this time...

Does not go far enough, open carry still prohibited. I have no interest in open carry, but if making it constitutional the option should be there.

When the end game has nothing to do with public safety, what they do makes perfect sense.

Had one try me just now. DeHunter Via PM he offered me a Super Redhawk 454 for $550 LOL (I wish) - First flag Has no activity here at all - second flag Won't give up a phone number - strike three is using this place as an alias........

Please realize in the Army, I was expert or right below that. My weapon was a 9mm Beretta or M16-A1. But these little .38's... really hard to hit more than few feet away. So I think I can qualify w/ my .38 revolver. Just wondering if anyone knows of an easier qualifying course than gunforhire and the others. Thanks

And the hits keep on coming!: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.njd.504488/gov.uscourts.njd.504488.17.0.pdf