JackDaWack

Keep in mind, this is now a civil liberties issue.. Being denied your civil liberties can carry a huge financial burden of the accused. NJ will just make us gun owners rich pulling some shenanigans like that. Even better, judges lose their judicial immunity if they conduct judicial misconduct.. thats a very very big deal when ignoring judicial precident of SCOTUS.

They will make more hoops to jump through, no doubt, but SCOTUS was clear there has to be a path for the average person to CCW. People were saying the same thing about SCOTUS folding the past year and look what happened!!

The application is mainly procedural, and (redacted). You do need to get 2 sets of physical fingerprints on those atf/fbi cards. The big question is how to get the training (part 1) or qualification (part 2 or 3) of the statute satisfied.

I'm reaching out to a few places to see what they say. I've been mainly looking at places that certify armed security guards. I've also been searching for local NRA marksmanship qualification classes.

If I recall Ant, you already have the staff needed to satisfy NJ state training requirements? We just need some dates for classes!!!! Let's gooooo!!! Can you sense my excitement? "All of our high-level courses are taught by experienced professionals with the credentials to prove it. They are all trained and certified by the N.J. Police Training Commission, N.J. Department of Criminal Justice, and possess Federal Law Enforcement Instructor Certifications. They are experts in N.J. Use of Force Policies, and are always updating the course material with the latest use of force guidelines and case law."

I'd like a place for people to go without having to sift through 430+ post about the SCOTUS issue that was decided. This is not a discussion on the SCOTUS opinion. Do not interject those opinions here, do them in the national discussion. This is ONLY for NJ residents to have a place to discuss resources and the application process for receiving your CCW. If you are applying, or plan to, it would be helpful for the folks here in NJ to know the process. I was most interested in understanding which firearms training people have done or know of which satisfies the current statute. This could be helpful for many people planning to apply, and could be done while awaiting a formal decision to start the application process. It would be great if a place like GunforHire had something for us up here in NNJ. Mods: this could be better placed in the CCW subforum, but it said no "law" discussion. It wasn't clear...

Not sure what that limitation is here? Only a small part of the law is unconstitutional, the rest stands.. the legislature doesn't have to pass a new law for the unconstitutional part to not apply. There is an entire licensing process that exists and is "legal", and so far still constitutional. The justified part is simply not applicable and can't be enforced. In the mean time, can people share some resources on how to qualify for the application? Specifically the "training" requirement.

A judge can lose their their immunity if they openly defy a SCOTUS opinion this clear cut. Which one is going to chance their own career on that in favor of NJ politics?

So who's applying!!!!???? I'm temptempted to right now.

Dp you know if these are normal or low recoil? The picture shows 1oz low recoil? But the descriptions says one of three types? Confusing as to what you will actually recieve.

Bigggggg fan of the BCM, nice way to test it lol. Wish they came out with the BCM sooner, I'm not particularly happy about cutting off mutlipe hundred dollar comps to slap these on. But any new upper gets one.

Honestly, more "kids" these days are much less mature at 18 than in the past, have zero coping skills, and blame others for their own self inflicted problems. The only reason I see raising the age to 21 to buy a gun is because.... track records. At 18 years old, on your birthday you can buy a gun... even if you have mental health issues documented, criminal convictions etc... because that information is typically sealed and not accessible. 2 options exist, don't seal juvenile records... not sure why we do that anywaysince expungements exist. I know someone who had an armed robbery conviction expunged within 6 years of getting out of prison...fkin insane.. in NJ of all places. OR raise the age so there is enough time for the individual to screw up before they can purchase a firearm. Does any of this solve the real gun violence in the country? No. We know that these media focused shootings are a drop in the bucket compared to the daily and weekly murders in cities.

We've had a number of bear attacks up here recently.

The ATF won't even drag home built lowers into a court room, bumpstocks etc. They pass laws to scare people like you, are willing to arrest someone and then tuck tail when they realized the case won't make it past indictment, or runs the precedence to actually trigger a civil case and the outright elimination of the law together. Better to leave a useless law on the books to scare people than give someone the power to wipe it out. You won't be hard pressed to find a lawyer willing to take a portion of your winnings that would reach tens of millions. NJ bail reform will have you out of police custody within 2 days... Now i.dont even think it gets that far, most judges even in NJ wouldn't let a prosecutor up hold a law that's been struck down by SCOTUS, literally shit that will get you thrown off the bench and even possibly disbarred. Ultimately this will depend on the verbiage of the ruling and how clear cut the opinion is... Politicians can play this stupid game, but the judicial system doesn't typically as a whole. Not to mention, if a judge violates your civil rights, they CAN be charged with a federal crime if SCOTUS finds their behavior intentional and strips them of judicial immunity.... judges like their immunity and I doubt theyre gonna play with that type of fire.

This has nothing to do with ffls, atf or buying guns. This is a fact of life now on these p2p commerce sites, and I wish more places did it. The number of scammers out there is insurmountable. So if people want to scam on their site now, they have to provided proof of ID. Another forum I'm on, there're attempted scams almost everyday by accounts that can't be verified, and its no where near the size of gunbroker.. And if you are running a proxy IP address that hides your location, you basically appear to be a scammer in their system. I wish more places did this, would stop 99% of scammers without making you pay for access to an account.

I stay out of democratic shitholes for the same reason.

I would predict that lawsuits won't happen. NJ will drag its feet, but they won't risk multimillion dollar civil suits to charge someone that will 100% win on appeal. They are better off passing a law and getting people licensed than risk unlicensed people carrying they cant prosecute. In places like NY, you don't even go to jail anymore for carrying a firearm illegally until you're successfully found guilty.

Rifle or pistol? Real bbs? Or airsoft?

OP was asking how Others would be affected regarding the ban of braces(on certain weapons) Yea sure it could have been worded better but the information he was looking for was easy enough to answer. Except.... you started your opinions in this thread with applying the point system to an other regarding the VFG. AND the new rules mention two handed smooth bore weapons over 26"... such as the tac14 and shockwave, any brace would be a no go.

I thought the OP was direct in their question, and have framed my responses as such. I see no reason for the OP to even ask about Pistols, they're illegal in NJ prior to the ATFs proposed rule change

An other is over 26" POINTS DO NOT APPLY. An other is NOT a PISTOL. It's NOT designed to be fired ONE HANDED. That just about makes everything the ATF has published as proposed rules changes completely moot to OTHERS. If that's not enough to convince you, nothing will. Most stabilizing braces are not specifically designed to make only pistols easier to fire, and thus are not designed specifically for one handed operation. The SBA3 for example was designed for ANY weapon with an milspec tube, where the individual doesn't want a stock, and wants an accessory that can offer stability. So the rules mention that over 26" with a brace is a no go for one handed operation... that leaves Others pretty much excluded from any rule changes. How often do you shoot a pistol one handed anyway? The ATF's entire proposed rule is an extremely weak one when considering statutory language with respect to others and pistols, as they argue when a brace can be beneficial or not has absolutely nothing to do with one handed operation of a weapon just because it's designed to be fired with one hand. They also are attempting to lump every brace created with this reasoning of one handed operation. It also applies a check box process of intent, when every lawyer on earth knows proving intent is difficult and creating a made up form is not proof of anything. Example: 1) adding a vfg is pretty obvious you intended to use it as a secondary grip location. 2) Adding a brace to literally anything only shows intent to increase the firearms stablity. If the atf wants to pen a letter making others with braces NFA regulated, I plan on replacing the A5 extension with a carbine and filing for an AOW.

You seem to be making arguments for the FATF that even they aren't making... They say weapons designed to be fired with one hand, that's not what an other is... If they want the rule to apply to others it should not just be more clear, It shouldn't use language that explicitly excludes them.

First, this is the second time they have gone after pistol braces, the first time around they dropped the proposed rule. Second, "one hand' applies only to pistols. An other by default is fired using two hands wherean imbalance wouldn't be observed.. so the above statement wouldn't apply to a firearm over 26" designed to be fired with two hands, where a brace can add additional support.

This is exactly why the rule will either never go into effect, or be unenforceable if it ever does. The law doesn't state anything about practicality, accuracy or intent. Giving the same exact brace two different classifications based on what it's attached to is far outside any statutory powers. In regards to others, the above statement doesn't apply, as it's designed to be fired with Two hands, and in this case with the addition of a stabilizing brace. We also have the option to file for AOW if it becomes an issue.

A stoves "life" will be directly related to what its made from, and how well it's maintained to prevent chimney fires and over heating. What kills a stove is overheating it, and that comes from either too dry wood, or creosote buildup from wet wood that eventually burns. Unfortunately, long gone are the days of a 100% cast iron stove that would last multiple lifetimes when properly used. All new stoves are required to have three stage burns cycles, catalytic converters are pretty much standard and THAT has become the weak link in these wood stove Unfortunately. We run a regency I2400 insert with a blower, pre catalytic version. I personally clean it out once a year, we're on year 6 and i can't see any noticeable "wear" on it. Newer stoves use replaceable firebrick that line the entire burn chamber and I will probably have to replace them in maybe 20 years of use. If I pack this thing, and they do make a larger unit, I can get 8 hours of burn if I use a combination or larger and smaller logs and wood should be around 20% moist or slightly under. I think peoppe misunderstand what what burn rate is, I can load at 7am leave for work and return at 4pm(9hrs), stove is still warm(200f) along with the house, and drop seasoned wood in on coals, close door and be back up to temp in 15 minutes. The key is to clean out the ash every couple days to maximize the space. Once you burn wood at 15% or lower, it just burns to quickly. I now only use 1 year seasoned hard woods. Burning wood below 10% is actually dangerous with new epa stoves because you CANNOT shut them down, and risk a runaway.. you can hear the high pitch whine as the secondary burners suck air through a non adjustable inlet. ask me how I know... luckily I was able to get it under control, but my pipe coming out the back into a double walled liner has some nice purple coloration to it... a bad sign of overheating. Get yourself a chimfix, not sure what I would have done without one.