vladtepes

Put a different muzzle device on the EVO... Scorpion EVO Micro Trijicon MRO Noveske KX5 Surefire M300 Magpul sling Magpul MOE Enhanced Magazine release Magpul MOE Grip HBI THETA FORWARD Trigger Shooters Element Reduced Weight Trigger Spring Kit HBI Thumb Safety Selectors HBI Theta Extended Charging Handle

TY Ray

You need penetration and cavitation both temporary and permanent.. I don't see a reason to think that SP would fail to produce that.. with that said.. I suspect it would fill through walls at just about the same level as FMJ.. or at least I should say not substantially different.. You

to be completely clear.. virtually every viable HD round can penetrate a wall and kill what's on the other side.. the point on a low mass round is just the hopes of reduced depth of penetration.. if you miss and hit sheetrock with almost anything.. its going through..

yeah at that distance that thing was a solid chunk of lead..

to paint the most unlikely but terrifying situation.. a lunatic on meth breaks in.. and has a loved one by the hair and is bashing her face in screaming about how he is going to kill her... do you want this to be the moment you realized that having the most accurate weapon possible was in your best interest.. and maybe a shotgun with a potential stray pellet is less than ideal.. I would rather take that shot with a carbine than a shotgun OR a pistol for that matter.. I subscribe to the mindset of preparing for the worst.. that is EXACTLY what we saw with almost all the ammo we used at the distance we shot.. one real big hole..

what a round does is impacted by several things right... you have the high velocity of 5.56... but you have virtually no mass.. so it is not ideal for killing things on the other side of barriers... will it go through a house? sure.. almost any round can penetrate an interior structure.. but passing through the structure is going to steal a lot of velocity and energy off of the round and reduce the penetration on the other side.. that is assuming it doesn't break up or otherwise deform.. 9... 45.. 12.. all have the capacity to penetrate deeper post interior wall.. so if thats the case.. why not just go with the best solution.. soft shooting.. highly accurate carbine..

take your shotgun to the range and pattern it with the ammo you will use.. I bet you are surprised at 7 yards.. I had a coworker that purchased a Mossberg 500 pistol grip only for home defense because he suffered from the Hollywood delusion of hip fire 3 ft wide spreads.. the gun shop worker also told him something like "its a shotgun you won't even have to aim".. He is a remote worker.. so we did not have his actual gun... we brought my S12 out to the range.. which is basically a 14in shotgun without a choke and a folding stock.... and we folded up the stock and proceeded to put some rounds onto paper at like 7 yards.. keep in mind the short side of your "average" living room is only like 12ft.. with some of the ammo we were getting almost solid single holes.. to very little spread... a shotgun is fine if thats what you want to run.. but keep in mind in most home distances.. its going to be ALMOST LIKE a single large projectile.. obviously there is a ton of variation there for shotgun type.. choke... ammo.. etc.. one of the things that I DONT like about a shotgun is at the muzzle you have a single large projectile.. and at the furthest end you have a few inches wide that you need to account for.. I don't want to be trying to range threats in my home and make quick mental spread calculations.. I just want to point and click.. AR15 all day long..

maybe one full gun VS one full gun. as my 1301 is faster than my S12.. until you get to the reloading part.. there is a lot to be said about a mag fed shotgun... you are getting 8 more shells in the gun at a very rapid pace.. so if you want to say put 24 rounds down range.. the S12 is going to get it done faster just because of reload times..

the point was more xm855 doesn't always do what people think it does.. not so much anything about this specific setup.. or a direct correlation to the AR platform.. it was just to show that people think the steel tip round is good against armor.. maybe soft armor... but xm193 will also go right through soft armor.. so you are not really getting anything more out of the 855.. except what I already stated.. the ability to get through light cover better..

and as a bonus.. some soft armor vs a 7.5..

I don't think that m855 does what you think it does.. its good for defeating light cover... it is not great (that I am aware of) at penetrating armor..

thats exactly what it looks like..

thats the only place I have seen..

you won't find them reasonably priced.. I am buying a set for my AK soon..

anyway to find out what it was? I bet the 1301 will cycle it.. LOL

there are very few instances I would use a shotgun as a defensive gun... I have a lot of really small high capacity weapons that I would take over a shotgun any day.. AR SBR 5.56 AK9 (6in barrel) 9mm Scorpion Evo Micro 9mm all with weapon lights and optics.. 30 round mags... you are talking a lot of gun.. and a lot of accuracy in a small lightweight platform.. I mean MAYBE in some post apocalyptic end of the world post government scenario... where law and order has been completely eroded away.. a S12 with a drum could be a good mob defense weapon as with the right ammo you could put a lot of pellets over a large area.. dissuading people from advancing.. but that would be a real specific instance.. the vast majority of time for a 2 legged threat I am going to want a bullet over any type of shot.. the 1301 I have a comp which is long so not ideal for any kind of interior stuff.. the 1301 tactical was a rock star.. that gun is literally the AR15 version of a shotgun..

my Beretta 1301 is one of the most reliable guns I have ever shot... that thing runs amazing... I had that video in mind when I read your post.. that is your typical S12.. "done up" on the outside... but probably unchecked gas ports.... probably light target loads.. in contrast.. this is a gun worked on by someone that knows what they are doing... even with the super short barrel.. the gun runs.. the gas system is the weak link and normally what requires a little attention..

you are entitled to voice any opinion you have.. LOL it is just misguided.. as I stated.. most of the complaining stems from people that don't really have a proper understanding of the gun.. and that lack of understanding has created disappointment for them which then gets pushed out to the inter webs.. you can if you choose.. get these things to run any ammo.. there is a guy on the old S12 forum that built like an 7 or 8in S12 and that thing will rip through any ammo.. just depends on what you are looking to get out of it.. and the effort you are willing to put in..

There are some issues with these guns that have resulted in them having a bad reputation.. First.. the gun is not really designed for light bulk ammo.. its just not... Second.. a lot of these guns shipped with questionable gas port work... some times the gas block covers or partially covers one of the ports... since they are designed to cycle heavier ammo... the defect is not caught in the factory.. gun is checked.. round is fired.. and the gun runs fine.. because they are firing a heavier round.. You can address both of these issues depending on how deep you want to dive.. if you primarily are going to shoot heavy ammo.. buckshot.. high brass..etc... you probably won't have any issues.. if you want to shoot light target ammo you may need to add an additional port or open up the existing ports.. and then get an adjustable plug to better control the gas.. I like the gun a lot.. primarily because its obnoxious.. mine is completely reliable with anything high brass and up.. so like 7.5 heavier loads.. buckshot.. slugs.. all no problem.. and well to be honest.. I don't really shoot light shotgun ammo so its a non-issue for me.. I like that its a 12 gauge shotgun that runs magazines and drums.. in an AK platform.. LOL and eventually I am going to get a stamp for it so I can remove the ridiculous muzzle device.. then I will have a 14in mag fed shotgun with a folding stock.... what's not to like.. most of the horror stories you hear are "I just got my Saiga 12 and am trying to run shitty aftermarket mags with cheap walmart bulk ammo and it won't run.. WTF" LOL

to play devils advocate.. how did you come to this conclusion when the wording is literally identical for each of those guns.. "Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms" "M1 carbine type" What was it there that told you they are to be interpreted differently? They are both broadly describing an entire range of firearms that are considered a type of firearm..

It says M1 TYPE and it says AK TYPE... that is why the comparison is relevant.. It does NOT say the gun "Kalishnikov".. "Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms" "M1 carbine type" " PJK M-68 carbine type" In practice.. of course you are right.. they have looked the other way.. and they have done so for so long that it would be unreasonable for them to roll it back.. I am simply providing information to the original poster as I believe it to be accurate.. despite the state having looked the other way... despite there being uncountable numbers of AKs in NJ.. despite many NJ gun dealers selling them.. the entire type is prohibited per the NJ assault weapons ban.. the check list is fairly straight forward.. the state says "these guns are all banned.. there is then a long list.. if the gun is named on that list then it is automatically banned.. there are a FEW guns that go beyond just naming a specific make and model.. like the AK.... they flat out say ALL AK TYPES.. so the only question you can ask yourself is this.. is a Saiga.. is a WASR and AK type? or course it is.. so it is banned... will you get arrested? will gun shops be shut down? NO.. because the state has opted to not enforce..

Do you remember the auto ordnance m1 carbine? if so that is why I stand by the fact that the AK is technically banned in NJ.. can you sell them? are there countless already out there? are others selling them? sure... are they technically banned.. sure.. for the same reason the AO was a no go..

this is in contrast to the literal writing of the AW ban... just saying.. as paul said.. they have been allowed.. but if you go by how its written.. none of them are legal.. because they are "AK Type" rifles..

you have no idea.. LOL