illy

In a handgun?

So the government is supposed to efficiently organize a nationwide buyback of 300 million guns?

I am a single issue (2A) voter. And it's not about owning guns (as a hobby or for any other reason). In fact, even if I was a probhibited person, 2A issues would still be the criteria by which I judged candidates. Here's why: There are only three reasons why someone running for office would oppose the natural, civil and constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms. None of those reasons is acceptable and each of them makes the candidate wholly unfit for office. They are (in order of most to least common): A. They don't feel strongly about the issue one way or the other but are willing to infringe upon our fundamental rights for political gain. That means they'll do the same with any other issue. No integrity, no conviction, only pure self-interest. B. They fully understand that gun control is about control, not guns. Chipping away at our 2A rights is part of their worldview where government has all the power and the people have none. C. They really beleive the anti-gun rhetoric. Unlikely, but if true, says all I need to know about that person as a candidate for office. This is not an issue on which reasonable, honest people can disagree with both sides having valid arguments. The facts are 100% in favor of civilian gun ownership. Anyone sincerely opposed to same is either not too smart (certainly not smart enough to be an elected representative of the people) or willfully ignorant of the facts regarding an issue that touches upon our most basic freedoms. Either way, not someone deserving of my vote. Of course, someone can be pro-2A and still be a total bufoon, craven opportunist or even a closet fascist. But it's less likely, especially the last one. And since pulling that lever is almost always a choice between evils, the pro-2A candidate will almost always be the lesser evil.

Everyone I've hunted with (all under 40) got into hunting because they were firearms owners, not the other way around.

That's why I posted that over-long post. I only have 2 guns, out of over a dozen, that hold more than 10 rounds. And it wouldn't matter much to me if they held less, since neither is a go-to defensive gun. Plus my range only allows you to load 5 rounds at time. But nobody is criticizing my (or anyone else's) preference for fuddly guns. We're criticizing those who side with the antis on what guns should be legal, just because their tastes are different. Again, if all you shoot are over/unders, that's fine. But STFU about what others should be allowed to own. Or better yet, speak up for their rights, because they're your rights too, even if you never expect to exercise them.

Fudds: http://nytimes.com/2012/04/25/opinion/i-hunt-but-i-oppose-the-nra.html?_r=0 http://indyweek.com/indyweek/im-a-gun-owner-but-i-want-nothing-to-do-with-the-nra/Content?oid=3250854 http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/02/opinion/omara-minnesota-guns/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 http://m.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/01/hunters-need-to-stop-letting-the-nra-speak-for-them/267097/

That's a nice gun at a fair price, but... although I know many will disagree, I almost never buy used guns. The only two that I have were practically unfired. I know that buying used can open up selection and get you a great deal, but as I've said elsewhere, with all the amateur gun smithing I've done on my guns, I always worry the other guy is as adventurous, but even less capable.

Also up for other suggestions. Use would be shooting trap once or twice a month at most and some upland game hunting once a year. Max budget is $700, though money matters, so a reliable sub $500 gun would be great. Thanks guys.

Been looking at getting an entry level over/under. So far a couple of CZs (Mallard & Canvasback), Mossberg Silver and some Stoegers are in the running. Today I came across the ATIs online and they seem like a decent shotgun for the money. Anyone here own/shoot/have knowledge about these shotguns?

^ That's a good suggestion. Of course we're dealing with a used car salesman who screwed someone he knew, so....

Mossberg is trying hard to make it so that you can: http://www.mossberg.com/product/shotguns-break-action-maverick-over-under-thunder-ranch-hs12/75462 http://www.mossberg.com/product/rifles-lever-action-centerfire-mossberg-464-spx/41026 and of course: http://www.mossberg.com/product/shotguns-pump-action-500-special-purpose-500-zmb-series/50461

In NJ, you can't really do better than Billy Pinilis. He's like the Evan Nappen of NJ consumer law. http://www.pinilishalpern.com/attorneys/william-pinilis/ Full Disclosure: I don't work for, nor have a personal relationship with Pinilis or his firm. I only know of him because he was an adjunct prof. at my school.

Some other things to consider: It's standard practice for professional dealers to inspect a vehicle they're buying, or have it inspected, down to checking how thick the paint is (tells you of it's been repainted). Something major, like a bent frame, should have been detected by the dealer's tech. Also, if you dealer/friend bought it an auction, then he would have been a total idiot not to have it thoroughly inspected. So it might actually be easy to meet the "knew or should have known" standard, even without much paperwork. Your best bet would be to contact a consumer fraud lawyer* and have him/her look at your case. *Meaning someone who's practice is mainly or only consumer law. And the same goes for any other type of legal represntation you might ever need- Always hire a specialist and prefereably one who works a lot in the venue in which your case will be heard (meaning the particular county or fed district, etc.).

Lol, I thought I was the only one who measured driving distances in cigars.

^This. The relevant section of the NJ Consumer Fraud Act states: In other words, IF you can demonstrate that the dealer knew or should have known about the damage you can probably prevail in court. Also, the statute of limitations is 6 years from when you knew or should have known about the damage, so you should still be good. Lastly, in consumer fraud cases you can (not guaranteed) collect treble damages- literally triple the actual damage as well as attorney's fees.

1) What is a fair membership fee per year for an exclusive private range? It really varies, based on the stuff Mark Anthony mentioned, your initial cost, funding for future improvements, etc. That said, you'd be "competing" with other ranges in PA, which are very inexpensive. 2) What would you require the range to have? Ideally, covered firing line and some sort of target system for static shooters (steel would be great); long range rifle* shooting; hunting on the property for members. 3) Would you like a range that gave classes regularly Depends on what's regularly and what kind of instruction, but generally, yeah that would a good thing. *if the acres are a square plot, you're going to max out at 200 yards.

The gun is no longer listed, but the .45 Colt version is $565

From their website: **KyGunCo.com Is Not Responsible for Printing or Typographical Errors** **KyGunCo.com Reserves the Right to correct pricing errors and/or cancel orders at our discretion**

Ugh. Dear Customer, We see that you have place an order for a Ruger Vaquero (RGR-5154). We had a pricing error on this item. We apologize for the this mistake, at this time we are unable to fulfill your order. We are truly sorry, thanks for the understanding. Thank You, Patrick Hayden Owner Kentucky Gun Co. 401 Glenwood Dr Bardstown KY 40004 PH: 502-348-3594 Fax: 502-348-6211

I fully qualify as some kind of Neo-Luddite and/or Fudd. I do own a couple of semi-auto handguns (both were priced too good to pass up) and one auto-loading .22 rifle (Marlin Model 60), but the majority of my firearms are decidedly analog: Mostly revolvers, most of them blued. All of them have a set of wood grips (though sometimes the stainless guns will wear rubber target grips at the range). And even the bottom feeders are hammer-fired. In long guns, it’s all pump and break open shotguns, bolt action rifles and a couple of single shots. All of them are blued steel and most of the stocks are wood (only the HD shotguns get to sport synthetic stocks). All the sights on my guns are open/iron, except on two hunting guns, which are scoped. I was going to write “both long and handguns” because I know that optics on handguns are a thing now. But I figured it was pretty clear that I’m not the kind of guy who’d be running a red dot on a handgun. In fact, I don’t care if a gun even has a rail (except for the aforementioned scoped long guns), and nothing on any of my guns ever needs a battery. And my wish list consists of a lot of wheel guns and some 1911s (to compliment the .45ACP revolvers, of course). So, I’m basically a Fudd. Except that… My main, and almost exclusive, reason for owning firearms is defensive. I do hunt. In part for sport (though I only hunt what I eat and I eat what I hunt), but mainly because it’s a skill that may someday be useful. And no, not because I’m some kind of a prepper. But if both my wife and I lost our jobs and were really struggling, knowing the woods and how to take game would be useful, even if civilization is humming along just fine. It’s also a fun way to spend some time with friends and the only motivation I can think of to get up at the crack of dawn and go hike in the woods. But if I never got to hunt again, I’d be just fine. It’s not a lifestyle thing for me and certainly isn’t my raison d’armes. I also don’t play gun games, do competitive shooting, etc. I’ve thought about and even made plans to get involved a couple of times, but it never worked out. Probably because my interest in it was lukewarm at best. In fact, that’s a lot like my interest in modern sporting rifles. If I had a dollar for every time I’ve had a Russian Saiga, Yugo AK-74, M&P15 Sport or PSA blem lower/upper/BCG/LPK, etc. in my online shopping cart, only to balk before hitting the “confirm” button, I’d be halfway to one of those halloweenish Black Rain Ordnance receivers (you know, the ones with the nifty skulls). So, unlike the proverbial Fudd/sports shooter, I get it. I get that guns and gun rights go beyond what I happen to be into. And I fully understand that every infringement, even on something that I have no interest in at all, is an infringement on MY rights as well. Even if I could somehow be sure that the antis would stop far short of restricting the guns I own, I would oppose them at every incremental taking of OUR rights. I’m a staunch believer in the right to keep and bear arms. In fact, given my position on the issue, I’m what most people would call a Second Amendment absolutist. Except it’s not even about the 2nd Amendment for me. While I’m certainly thankful that the Founders codified the RKBA in the Bill of Rights, I, along with many others (like the Heller Court), understand that the Constitution does not grant that right. So, just because I don’t personally want a Punisher decal laden AR-10 (and think it’s kinda silly), that doesn’t mean the next guy should be banned from getting 100 of them if that’s his thing. Instead, I’m 100% for the unlicensed purchase, ownership, transfer and carry of any firearm and/or accessory. That includes suppressors, magazines of any capacity, SBRs, sawed-off shotguns, AR pistols, full-auto guns, etc., even though I have no personal interest in any of those items myself (well maybe a suppressor for my .22 target pistol).

Lol. Every time I'm in there, puling out my paperwork from the stack goes something like: "Joe, Joe, Joe, some other guy, Joe, Joe, Joe, ah, here it is."

Same. Thank God for Rick at OMG. I already have a GP100 & an MKIII 22/45 in his safe and my permits still haven't come in. On the bright side, since I have three handguns at the same FFL, it makes sense finally apply for an exemption.

As with everything grip-wise, it varies by individual. However, most people (especially those that don't shoot SAs a lot) says the birds head grip feels more controllable than the "plow handle" grips. Plus, in .45 ACP, should be a pussycat.

I did some digging around- 300 was the original run. A few guys have new ones made this year. So not so limited.