nooch450

Hmmmm.... I think task force should be notified about your call... Maybe contact sheriff Strada with this info as he is an elected official and part of his duty is protecting peoples constitutional rights. He is pro 2A, and his office is responsible for securing court houses. (not sure about the superior court house, but probably). If all else fails maybe attend the next Sussex Freeholder meeting and make them aware of what is happening in our County. Ill go with you!

I think in PA its legal to drink while carrying. I wonder if it is illegal to do so in NJ. Say you stopped at a fiends house on your way home from the store on a Saturday afternoon and you plan to stay a while, would it be illegal to have a beer with them while carrying at their house? Obviously being intoxicated while carrying is not a good idea legal or not, however I am talking about consuming a small enough amount that you could legally drive. I was just in NC and you could only legally drink while open carrying in a place that doesn't serve / sell alcohol. You cant open carry in a place that served / sold alcohol either. You could CC in a place that served / sold alcohol but you couldn't drink at all while CC anywhere in the state.

The basis of my question was to find out if carrying without the permit on you has the same long term consequences as carrying without the permit at all. Meaning is it unlawful possession or does it get dropped when you show or prove you do have one but just didn't have the permit on you at the time. When I get mine, hopefully sometime soon, I plan to keep it in my wallet at all times next to my NJFID, FL, NH, UT permits.

I would carry it, but I like to fully understand the law. What if you lost or forgot your wallet by accident? Good to know what your potentially dealing with....

It's still not clear to me. So far I understand it as you will be arrested and prosecuted but if you prove you have the permit you will be let off the hook afterwards?

There would be no legal argument to be made. Nothing in written law says that if the Superior Court doesn't issue your permit after receiving your application within 30 days you are automatically issued one or that you can carry without a permit. You will simply be charged with unlawful possession of a handgun if caught. The 60 day time frame for police stations is written into law however nobody really knows how that works in practice. Meaning, what do you do if they take longer? Show up to the courthouse with receipts and ask them to process? Good luck with that peasant! If the 60 day police time frame and 30 day court timeline really worked than Jay Factor would have automatically had a permit in his hand after his 2019 application. I can't remember the exact number of days but it was over 200 days for a denial if I remember correctly. Definitely substantially longer than 60 days plus 30 days. Again, NJs timelines are meaningless. They have been blowing them off for years and they will continue to do so untill automatic issuance is law or there are consequences for not meeting their timelines. Someone who applies for their permit and than their police station goes over 60 days will need to file a lawsuit in order to get a NJ court to lay out some type of resolution on how this works in practice. Someone may also be able to contact the NJ supreme court about what to do if the 30 day court timeline is blown. However because this is just a directive and is not written into law, I doubt anything meaningful will come of this. Maybe I'm wrong, and hopefully so.

Why does NJ have to screw up everything including the FID and Permit to Carry card physical size? Seriously can they do anything correct!? How idiotic is it that they can't just make them the same size as your driver's license? Why are they asking for passport photos when they don't wind up on the permit? Is there anything even in the law mandating that your must have the permit on you while carrying? Obviously this would be the best practice however say you forgot your wallet at home. I wonder what would happen...

You need to be approved by the police AND superior court. c. Investigation and approval. Each application shall in the first instance be submitted to the chief police officer of the municipality in which the applicant resides, or to the superintendent, (1) if the applicant is an employee of an armored car company, or (2) if there is no chief police officer in the municipality where the applicant resides, or (3) if the applicant does not reside in this State. The chief police officer, or the superintendent, as the case may be, shall cause the fingerprints of the applicant to be taken and compared with any and all records maintained by the municipality, the county in which it is located, the State Bureau of Identification and the Federal Bureau of Identification. He shall also determine and record a complete description of each handgun the applicant intends to carry. No application shall be approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent unless the applicant demonstrates that he is not subject to any of the disabilities set forth in subsection c. of N.J.S.2C:58-3, that he is thoroughly familiar with the safe handling and use of handguns, and that he has a justifiable need to carry a handgun. Each application form shall be accompanied by a written certification of justifiable need to carry a handgun, which shall be under oath and, in the case of a private citizen, shall specify in detail the urgent necessity for self-protection, as evidenced by specific threats or previous attacks which demonstrate a special danger to the applicant's life that cannot be avoided by means other than by issuance of a permit to carry a handgun. Where possible, the applicant shall corroborate the existence of any specific threats or previous attacks by reference to reports of the incidents to the appropriate law enforcement agencies. If the application is not approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent within 60 days of filing, it shall be deemed to have been approved, unless the applicant agrees to an extension of time in writing. d. Issuance by Superior Court; fee. If the application has been approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent, as the case may be, the applicant shall forthwith present it to the Superior Court of the county in which the applicant resides, or to the Superior Court in any county where he intends to carry a handgun, in the case of a nonresident or employee of an armored car company. The court shall issue the permit to the applicant if, but only if, it is satisfied that the applicant is a person of good character who is not subject to any of the disabilities set forth in subsection c. of N.J.S.2C:58-3, that he is thoroughly familiar with the safe handling and use of handguns, and that he has a justifiable need to carry a handgun in accordance with the provisions of subsection c. of this section. The court may at its discretion issue a limited-type permit which would restrict the applicant as to the types of handguns he may carry and where and for what purposes the handguns may be carried. At the time of issuance, the applicant shall pay to the county clerk of the county where the permit was issued a permit fee of $20.

How are the consequences for violating NJ gun law not considered cruel and unusual punishments? A punishment prohibited by the 8th amendment to the US constitution. Think about this, someone with no criminal history who is eligible to own and purchase firearms could accidentally drop a hollow point .22lr in their truck bed, trunk, or between their seat not even realizing they did so. They are pulled over on their way home for a minor traffic violation and wind up being searched for some reason. All of a sudden, boom they are charged with "A Fourth Degree Felony Charge Punishable by 18 Months in Prison" They loose their job, their house, their 2a rights in the entire country, they are now convicted felon for their entire life!!! Their entire life is ruined. All over something that they didn't even mean to do... All over something that is protected by their constitutional rights. NJ gun law needs to completely dismantled!!!!

The 30 day limit on the court directive #06-19 is useless in practice. It would be like passing a law against speeding but there being no fines or consequences attached when people are caught doing it. Basically, why should a judge who is reluctant to review permits in the first place care about meeting a 30 day deadline when not meeting the deadline has no effect on them or the process?

NJ, CA, NY, MD not issuing carry permits was ruled "constitutional" until SCOTUS said it wasn't! Ask yourself this... Do you think the founders of our country would have thought that obtaining permits to speak or obtaining permits to buy and carry arms would have been okay? Absolutely not! The constitution doesn't say you have freedom of speech or the right to keep and bear arms AFTER the government gives you permission. The constitution literally puts limits on the government from doing this very thing! BTW this is a conceptual annalists, under our current overreaching government you are correct....

Let's also pretend for a second your PD goes over 60 days. What do you do? How do you present and prove to the court that your application is automatically approved because it's been 60 days? The SCOTUS messed this up, they should have ruled that permits were unconstitutional. Can I see you permit to speak?

And what if they go beyond? There is no accountability, no consequences, no automatic issuance. So the 30 day court thing is just smoke and mirrors as far as I'm concerned!

Timelines for issuance are useless without consequences for those who don't follow them. Why should they care? New Jersey never followed their timelines before. Just look at the history of FID and P2Ps...

How can you get the permit without the judges signature? I do not believe there is any automatic approval in the court system. If they are refusing to review we are simply on hold.

As far as I know the automatic approval of 60 days only applies to the police station or state police barracks. I don't think there is an automatic approval in the court system. There is a 30 day court procedural time frame. But without consequences or automatic approval what good is it?

Does anybody know if the local police stations / New Jersey state police barracks cash the money orders or is that done at / through the courthouse?

If the judges opinions are causing them to not do their job and theirfore personally violating citizens rights than Strada can remind them that they can be held personally liable for civil rights violations.

Could be the case. What's your opinion on getting the sheriff involved?

I submitted my application on 7/29, got printed in PA on 7/30 (paying extra for out of state). I still haven't heard anything back.... My application went straight to state police barracks in Sussex because my township doesn't have a police station. The Sargent I spoke with said he hasnt seen any approved from the judge yet. However, on Gun for Hire radio Anthony Colandro did mention someone from Sussex county getting their permit. I am not sure about the details tho... If the Sussex county judge is holding this process up maybe a good course of action is to get out sheriff to look into this. He is pro 2a and is technically an elected constitutional sheriff. Maybe he can help? I also think the sheriff's department is responsible for guarding / protecting the courthouse. So he may be in close contact with the judge.

What we need is to find a good lawyer in NJ that believes in his and everyone's gun rights that will be willing to work together with people like us and fight the state for a free or low cost. There has to be someone out there... Included in the lawsuit could be for all costs of lawsuit. Also a class action lawsuit against all judges and state officials who do not provide proper, timly, legal pathways for NJ citizens to obtain a permit to carry in public. Not doing so is a violation of the the constitution, our Constitution rights, their oath of office, and is a conspiracy against out rights.

We need to sue the state conclude their laws unconstitutional and for them to change the law to shall issue. The laws and legislators need to be held accountable for infringing on our rights. This isn't to just get a permit. It's to insure all citizens have the ability to get their permit approved without being oppressed by our local government. May issue or no issue laws are not valid as they violate the constitution and our constitutional rights.

What needs to happen is multiple people across NJ have to attempt to go to their police stations and ask for the carry permit application paperwork. If provided fill it out and submit it. If they do not provided it ask why they are not supplying it and request that you get their response in writing and signed off. Be respectful and show them the laws explain that this is your right and nobody should be standing in the way. We need to have have a couple dozen people do this and work with the NRA or NJ2AS to provide financial support to hire a lawyer to take NJ to court over this. It can be won, it just need people to contribute and keep pressing.

All State Lawmakers that voted or vote Yes to Passing ”no issue” or “may issue” gun carry permit laws Violate 18 U.S. Code § 241 - Conspiracy against rights If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same; or If two or more persons go in disguise on the highway, or on the premises of another, with intent to prevent or hinder his free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege so secured— They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death. Oppress (verb) to burden with cruel or unjust impositions or restraints; subject to aburdensome or harsh exercise of authority or power: The 2nd Amendment applies to all levels of government and applies to an individual’s right to keep and bear arms. Bear (verb) To possess or carry McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 742 (2010), is a landmark[1]decision of the Supreme Court of the United States that found that the right of an individual to "keep and bear arms" as protected under the Second Amendment is incorporated by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment against the states. On June 28, 2010, the Supreme Court, in a 5–4 decision, reversed the Seventh Circuit's decision, holding that the Second Amendment was incorporated under the Fourteenth Amendment thus protecting those rights from infringement by local governments. This means that the Second Amendment, per the McDonald v. Chicago (2010) ruling from the U.S. Supreme Court, is a constitutional right that also restricts state and local governments from infringing on our right to keep and bear arms. NJ State Police Oath of Office I, ____________________________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the State of New Jersey; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same and to the Governments established in the United States and in this State, under the Authority of the people; and that I will faithfully, impartially and justly perform all the duties of the office of ______________________________________________________________________ according to the best of my ability, and that I will not use my office to grant preferential treatment, nor to seek personal gain, favor, or advantage not available to the general public, (so help me, God*). This means that a NJ state police officer shall support the Constitution of the United States and the rights guaranteed within of his fellow US citizens, including their Constitutional 2nd amendment right to keep and bear arms. There is no excuse for any officer to deny a non-criminal, law abiding citizen the paperwork and/or signature required to obtain a permit to carry their arms in public for lawful use. This is every US citizen’s constitutional right. 2nd Ammendment Rights Violation Proof.pdf