Hello gentlemen,

In the process of building my first AR in 5.56.

I have my iron sights and I am looking at red dots. Hopefully this isn't overkill on info but I am very confused on my best option.

I have shitty eye sight. My contacts are -8.5. I was looking at 3 main options:

1) Sig Romeo5 XDR - Thought was to start with this and eventually (xmas) upgrade with the Juliet 4X

2) Burris AR-332 - Prism sight. It is 3X and from what I gather it gives enough magnification to reach 100yds easily but still being functional for close shooting

3) Low power variable optic - thinking 1-6X - 

My goal is to work out to 200 yards eventually. mostly 25-100. 

Please any experience in these areas is very appreciated. Thank you 

  

A quality 1x RDS is the answer. With a little knowledge and practice, you will be able to get hits out to 300yards all day long.

Check out Holosun for a quality budget friendly option. The 503 is a hell of an optic for the price.

If you want top of the line quality, and you have the $$, look to AimPoint. Check out the PRO or Comp M3 for the lower price option. T2 and Comp M5 are the top of the line choices.

Don’t overcomplicate things with a LPVO in the beginning. A magnified optic will help you see better, won’t help you shoot better - you’ll just have a clearer view of our missed shots. You’ll have a faster learning curve starting on a plain dot in the least “Tubey” optic you can find, then move on to the magnified options down the road.

Avoid fixed power magnifications optics as well. While great for niche roles, they are very frustrating to learn on when you want to shoot inside 50 yards with an optic designed to get hits at 400.

Re: shitty eyesight, do you have astigmatism? I do, light colored things against dark background are most noticable for me (think movie credits or car taillights at night). This can make a red dot sight appear blurry, smeared, or as 2 dots.

 

I personally went with a Nikon 2-7x32 scope because I wanted magnification for my AR, but that is more because I prefer scoped rifles. I wouldnt mind a red dot designed for people with astigmatism for another AR.

My eyesight is worse.  -9/-9.5 w/ astigmatism.

Most of my optics are 1x Red dots.  With astigmatism they tend to smear - however, with a smaller dot (2 MOA size dot) it's generally not as bad.   

I do have a 1-4x LVPO on one of my rifles as well - it's nice to have but adds a LOT of weight.

LPVO are great. Suck to learn fundamentals on, IMO.

Avoid messing with parallax and eye relief issues as much as possible in the beginning. The less variables, the easier to narrow down where the deficiencies are and work on them with quickly noticeable improvements.

RDS is where it’s at for 90% of what most shooters will want a carbine to do.

47 minutes ago, Krdshrk said:

I do have a 1-4x LVPO on one of my rifles as well - it's nice to have but adds a LOT of weight.

LVPO? Haven't heard that acronym before. Is it supposed to be LPVO? (Low Power Variable Optic)

Haven't heard that either, but when I searched that's what came up.

5 minutes ago, 45Doll said:

LVPO? Haven't heard that acronym before. Is it supposed to be LPVO? (Low Power Variable Optic)

Haven't heard that either, but when I searched that's what came up.

Oops meant LPVO - typoed it.

I only run lpvo now and prefer the burris.  I always recommend these as you get a red dot and some magnification if you need it

1 hour ago, Krdshrk said:

Oops meant LPVO - typoed it.

We all do it. Thanks. I'm checking them out.

Thanks for all the great info guys! I keep reading that prism sights are best for astigmatisms. Funny thing is I was always told as a kid that i had one but apparently i grew out of it. I guess we will find out. I found this "deal" on Midway. for a Bushnell 1X 32mm   https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022880867?pid=930495

has good reviews and i like the idea of the bigger  FOV

Thoughts on micro vs tube?

I tend to stay away from multiple reticle sights like that.  All you need is the single dot.

If you're shouldering your rifle correctly, you should be able to just aim down the gun and see the red dot without having to search for it at all.  

For that price, I'd actually go with a Vortex optic - like a Strikefire, SPARC or Crossfire.  

GN, I have very limited experience with optics, but what I have learned from a short time of trial and error is that my eyes suck! Need readers for short distances and driving glasses for distance, not sure what my script is.

Bought a primary arms 2 moa red dot to start, with no glasses on the dot was an ugly star burst, with readers on the dot was crisp and clear but couldn’t see a dang thing down range with both eyes open. Tried my driving glasses and that was a giant no no, the red dot was a fuzzy blob.

While in NC last week I went into Bass Pro shop with both my sets of glasses, they had a vortex LPVO in the case, the nice fellow stuck it on a gun for me and I began adjusting everything, what I found was I could use my distance glasses adjust the diopter to my script and have both eyes open with a crisp clear reticle while being able to see clearly down range. The scope was a 1-8, so now I can use it as a 2 moa red dot for short distance and dial up the magnification for longer distance with one set of glasses.
 

At 1-8 magnification the wall mounted bass on the wall that I would estimate at 125 yards was up close and personal with both eyes open and in focus, I would not go more than 1-8 IMHO, unless you are looking to shoot past 500 yards. 
 

This is the optic I picked up on sale for $299 to mount on my AR-15.

https://vortexoptics.com/vortex-strike-eagle-1-8x24-ar-bdc3.html
 

Hope this helps in some way.

My eyesight is worse than yours. -6.0 left and -9.5 right plus astigmatism.  I can hit no problem with a red dot + 3x magnifier at 50 yards.  Not so precise at 100 yards.  I went with a couple of Vortex scopes 6-24x and I see 100 yards great and possible 200 yards is doable.  

To start, any optic with an etched reticle should be easier to see with an astigmatism than a reflex or a HWS. 

I have an astigmatism and it's been a never-ending journey to find an optic that works with my eye. I find that prismatic sights work better than holographic weapon sights (HWS) and reflex sights as they cause a lot of "bloom" at higher brightness settings, which are for brighter environments (outdoors). 

$ Vortex Spitfire 1x

$ Primary Arms SLx 1x

$$$ Trijicon ACOG 1.5x16S with (TA60 mount for a Picatinny rail) 9.8oz with mount. 

The low power variable optics work well with an astigmatism, but they tend to be much heavier than other options. If you're only planning on shooting from a bench, then that will be fine. I have a Trijicon Accupower 1-8x. While I can clearly see the reticle the additional weight throws off the balance of the firearm and causes me to fatigue quicker that a rifle with a lighter option. The Accupower is 25oz and the mount is 8.3oz. To me an additional 33.3oz isn't practical for a 25yd - 200yd firearm. 

I've purchased one of these for my current short range build. It weighs 11oz. 

https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-glx-2x-prism-scope-with-acss-cqb-m5-5-56-reticle

 

 

Guys - you are all overthinking this. If the dot is a bloom, comet, asterisk, smear, etc.... instead of a crisp dot - it doesn’t matter.

When you zero the optic, choose a portion of the dot - the top of the smear, 12 o’clock of the bloom, the point of the tail of the comet - and zero to that point.

Don’t make it harder than you need to.

For me For me the issue isn’t using the red dot with a blurry dot the issue is I need to use driving glasses for distance causing one eye to try and focus on the target with a blurry dot to see past while the other eye can see clearly causing headaches.  

Sounds like you are using the red dot like iron sights.

The target needs to be clear. Not the dot. Many people don’t realize that if they are using the optic properly, the dot will not be crisp regardless of how good your eyesight is - unless your target is very close.

The dot should not be your point of focus like a front iron sight would be with irons. The dot is superimposed on the crisp target while keeping both eyes open. Visualize it as if you are looking at the target and the dot just appeared on the intended point of impact, like someone slid a sheet of glass with a dot in it between your eye and the target. Don’t focus on the dot and follow the dot to the target.

Look at a light switch. Focus on one of the screws holding it in place. Now point at the screw without taking your eyes off it, hard focus stays on the screw - this is how it should be done.

If you are trying to get a hard focus on the dot, like a front sight on an iron sighted pistol or rifle, you’re doing it wrong. Close your eyes, take a breath, and open them again focusing on the target.

The whole point of the RDS is to give your brain one focal point (your target/threat) to think about, instead of 3 focal points (rear sight, front sight, target).

Don't sprint your eyes between focal points.

ID your target, superimpose the dot over where you want to hit keeping both eyes open, and press the trigger straight to the rear. Repeat as necessary.

I'm moving away from red dots. I picked up a used primary arms 3x fixed power  prism scope.

I like it so much now I have 3 they are  gen 2  type. My issue is its hard to see a red dot with no magnification @ 200yds

They are about the size of a aim point pro. This is the reticle for 223/5.56

 

Thanks HE for the detailed reply, I truly appreciate it. 
to see the target I need to use distance glasses causing the dot to be in the way of the target making me guess at the center point, don’t know why but with the LPVO I was able to focus the target and the reticle up close and at distance with no eye strain and no headaches. 

1 hour ago, silverado427 said:

I'm moving away from red dots. I picked up a used primary arms 3x fixed power  prism scope.

I like it so much now I have 3 they are  gen 2  type. My issue is its hard to see a red dot with no magnification @ 200yds

They are about the size of a aim point pro. This is the reticle for 223/5.56

 

There is way too much going on there for me.

With a 14.5” barrel (or more) 5.56 carbine, all you need is a dot and a little knowledge of your preferred zero distance to get hits from 0 to past 300 yards.

I stick to the MTACs and prefer the older reticle.  It's simple, clean, tank like tough, and make acquisition easy and of course you can go out to 4x.  I've had one on a 308 for about 4k rounds without a hiccup

Thanks for this great discussion (hopefully it keeps going). Love the knowledge from experience

On 11/28/2020 at 1:07 PM, Malice4you said:

Re: shitty eyesight, do you have astigmatism? I do, light colored things against dark background are most noticable for me (think movie credits or car taillights at night). This can make a red dot sight appear blurry, smeared, or as 2 dots.

 

I personally went with a Nikon 2-7x32 scope because I wanted magnification for my AR, but that is more because I prefer scoped rifles. I wouldnt mind a red dot designed for people with astigmatism for another AR.

Hi and sorry for the up. Got some problems with eyes, but nothing critical. Heard a lot about Nikon optics. What scope would be fit to beginner for the similar purposes? What to do you think about Prostaff P3 as example? Are there any other options?

Thanks in advance

Frank

6 hours ago, FairFrank said:

Hi and sorry for the up. Got some problems with eyes, but nothing critical. Heard a lot about Nikon optics. What scope would be fit to beginner for the similar purposes? What to do you think about Prostaff P3 as example? Are there any other options?

Thanks in advance

Frank

That’s a lot of magnification for an AR for a new shooter.

Remember, magnification helps you see better, it does not help you shoot better. At 16 power you will have an outstanding view of your misses though.

My advice, start with a red dot sight and then learn irons. Practice your shooting fundamentals. When you can knock the center X out of a B8 at 25 yards move to 50 yards. When you can do the same, you are ready to start thinking about low-power magnified optics (1-4, 1-6, etc…)

Nikon scopes are discontinued. While you likely won't have problems, if you do, I have heard you essentially get Nikon store credit if they can't/won't fix it, and probably for an amount nowhere near what you paid.

There are a TON of 3-9x or 4-12x 32/40/50/etc scopes of all price ranges out there. If you can deal with a low magnification of 3 or 4x, many of them are fine. I wanted a 1x but settled for a 2x on my low end and 7x on high end.

I plan on slowly replacing many of my scopes with ones more appropriate for the kind of shooting I do, and most of what I have looked at have been Vortex or Athlon scopes recently.

Chances are, unless you really research and buy a top end scope, you will buy one and replace it eventually. You will learn what matters to you, but buying 2 or more scopes will lose you money. The lessons may be worth the cost.