7 hours ago, COD said:

Hi all, I've been lurking here for a bit absorbing all the great info on NJ Gun Forums. I'm in Monmouth county and just turned in my application last week. A few minutes ago I found this on the CNJFO facebook page basically saying that the prosecutor is contacting applicants to agree to certain restrictions before meeting with the judge. 

 

BREAKING! MONMOUTH CO. CCW APPLICANTS IN A JAM!
ANJRPC LAWYER DAN SCHMUTTER ADVISES TO LAWYER-UP!

https://www.facebook.com/371903659656377/posts/pfbid0PWWqa44ZUubFByx71XagqTfftFZQpYyvBkW3k1cbFfrjVNu7WZNESnhwyFtxwm3xl

 

Utterly mind-boggling...I am glad Dan gave Monmouth gun owners a heads up and some advise, but I'd like to hear more about what the ANJRPC Strikeforce is doing to fight this in court. Yep, gun owners will need to lawyer up in some counties, but I'd like to see the full force of ANJRPC on this NOW!

 

19 hours ago, Karatenurse said:

Mine has been there since second week of August. No word other than its waiting to be signed and they will call when its ready.

Have you contacted strikeforce? It seems your application may have been with the court longer than 30 days.

8 hours ago, SJ Guns said:

Law for police, retired police, and the rest of us are different laws.  Police and retired police have the course of fire defined.   A permit to carry a handgun does not have a defined course of fire.   Most instructors are using some modified version of the other two but all that is really required is:

1. demonstrating "familiarity with safe handling and use" of a handgun
2. submission of your qualification scores.

There is no specific score required.  Again, most instructors (maybe all) are requiring 80% since that's what is required for police and retired police.

Google NJAC 13:45-2.4(b) for the actual law. Everyone is using option #2 under this law.

And, yes, we will need to do the whole process over every 2 years.  Fingerprints, references, qualification, new application, etc.

It's almost like fingerprints change or something. So freaking stupid. 

51 minutes ago, Combat Auto said:

Utterly mind-boggling...I am glad Dan gave Monmouth gun owners a heads up and some advise, but I'd like to hear more about what the ANJRPC Strikeforce is doing to fight this in court. Yep, gun owners will need to lawyer up in some counties, but I'd like to see the full force of ANJRPC on this NOW!

 

I think what the one guy commented is best. Do not agree to any restrictions. Vocalize your intent to sue. 

3 minutes ago, Lostboy said:

I think what the one guy commented is best. Do not agree to any restrictions. Vocalize your intent to sue. 

Yep, I agree!!!

I hope everyone has sent a donation to ANJRPC, and has signed up for Texas Law Shield.  They are fighting the good fight for us and it would be helpful if everyone could throw a few bucks their way to keep the attorneys funded.  

***DELETED***

***DELETED***

2 hours ago, nooch450 said:

Can you copy and paste the text of the post? Some of us are not in Facebook because the masters of the universe banned us ...

You don’t have to log into Facebook to read the post, just click the link.

https://www.facebook.com/371903659656377/posts/pfbid0PWWqa44ZUubFByx71XagqTfftFZQpYyvBkW3k1cbFfrjVNu7WZNESnhwyFtxwm3xl

14 hours ago, samiam said:

I'm skeptical that the scope of Article IV Section 1 extends as far as you would like. Otherwise, I'm confused why the need was seen to enact the part of the 10th Amendment that reserves unenumerated powers to the states (before the people). I could be incorrect. Related question: would you have that cut both ways? Suppose an individual was barred from carrying a firearm in one state without apparent justification - would you expect other states to also bar him or her from carrying on their turf?

My NJ driver's license is valid in all 50 states and all U.S. territories.  Driving a vehicle isn't a Constitutional right.  Carrying a firearm for lawful purposes is.

42 minutes ago, samiam said:

I sandpaper mine regularly. Don't all gun owners?

Lol but that doesn't change them, just makes them nonexistent. 

Good news for the moment. The Monmouth county prosecutor's office has backed down on the shortened list of conditions they were attempting to get applicants to sign off on.

 

Awsome, I would love to know what induced them to change their mind (suddenly) as it seems that Dan and company hit a brick wall and was advising on a back-up plan?

48 minutes ago, CMJeepster said:

My NJ driver's license is valid in all 50 states and all U.S. territories.  Driving a vehicle isn't a Constitutional right.  Carrying a firearm for lawful purposes is.

I have brought this up in other forums, Pro- American governors in 2A friendly states should stop recognizing driver's licenses from certain states without first applying for and getting a " non-resident" driver's permit for that state.

 States that do not properly vet the applicant for a driver's license should not be accepted as a legitimate form of ID.  You know the ones who issue them to criminal aliens with no SSN or legal documents to be in this country.

Turn their laws around on them, make those citizens go through the same shit we have to go through to carry a gun.   Make them go to a "driver's license reciprocity " website to see what the laws are and what states they can travel in.

That is good news.....for the moment. 

I found the following information on Reddit regarding Middlesex County. if this information is true, this is good news for us in Middlesex.

 

"This is the latest update from Michael Roberts, a practicing, licensed, criminal law attorney, who is very active in the NJ firearms community.

Screen shot of post attached, along with text for those worried about clicking links. https://gyazo.com/595a979de7274b8a351bffd528983b29

Michael Roberts

A couple of updates worth noting. All applications require notarization. A NJSP memo went out recently to PD to confirm this. 
But beyond a notary signature they are being told to look for a notary stamp. What if my lawyer who holds the power of a notary and 
signs instead, you ask? No good. Have to see the Stamp says one town in Ocean County. Middlesex County is processing Carry Permits. 
They are backlogged by about 70. Judge Rea who had been handling gun permitting issues in the County for decades is giving it up. 
He is passing the torch to Judges Corson and Jimenez. This will cause an initial further delay then more timely processing. One hopes. 
The AOC is working on a system to remove the Judges entirely from the process. Finally, the Middlesex County Prosecutors Office 
is not directly involved but is available should a town have a concern. In which case, they then become involved."
 

50 minutes ago, Lucky Lefty said:

Good news for the moment. The Monmouth county prosecutor's office has backed down on the shortened list of conditions they were attempting to get applicants to sign off on.

 

Where are you following Dan on social?

7 minutes ago, RadioGunner said:

Where are you following Dan on social?

Dan seems to be active on a few FB groups, including:

New Jersey Firearm Owners Syndicate

Monmouth County CCW

Ocean County CCW

 

The post above was pulled from 'Monmouth County CCW'

5 hours ago, nooch450 said:

Can you copy and paste the text of the post? Some of us are not in Facebook because the masters of the universe banned us ...

Looks like the crisis has been averted.

From the link:

"UPDATE! UPDATE FROM DAN SCHMUTTER!
The Monmouth County Prosecutor’s Office contacted us to tell us that they are no longer requesting that applicants agree to conditions on their permits."

1 minute ago, 124gr9mm said:

Looks like the crisis has been averted.

From the link:

"UPDATE! UPDATE FROM DAN SCHMUTTER!
The Monmouth County Prosecutor’s Office contacted us to tell us that they are no longer requesting that applicants agree to conditions on their permits."

That's great that the prosecutor's office is no longer looking to coerce people to agree to have additional restrictions, but I don't think it has any bearing on whether the judge will still issue with "no car"-type restrictions or not.

Update from Berkeley Township PD

As of yesterday, 4 permits have been returned, approved, to the pd from ocean county superior court.

These are the first 4 permits to be issued out of Berkeley Township, and it was confirmed that each of the 4 permits do have the attached list of 12 orders that include the "cannot carry in or on any motor vehicle" restriction.

5 hours ago, nooch450 said:

Can you copy and paste the text of the post? Some of us are not in Facebook because the masters of the universe banned us ...

BREAKING! MONMOUTH CO. CCW APPLICANTS IN A JAM! 
ANJRPC LAWYER DAN SCHMUTTER ADVISES TO LAWYER-UP!
by Black Wire Media Mon. Sept. 19, 2022 www.cnjfo.com/join-us

UPDATE! UPDATE FROM DAN SCHMUTTER!
The Monmouth County Prosecutor’s Office contacted us to tell us that they are no longer requesting that applicants agree to conditions on their permits.

NEW IMPORTANT REQUEST FROM DAN SCHMUTTER:
If you are contacted by the Monmouth County Prosecutor’s Office (OR any OTHER AGENCY in ANY COUNTY--Editor) and told that your application is being forwarded to the judge, can you please ask them to confirm that they will copy you simultaneously with their letter to the judge?
Also, when they send you their letter to the judge, can you please forward it right away to the ANJRPC Permitting Strikeforce email: 
[email protected]
We think it’s potentially very important what they say to the judge in their cover letter and how they characterize the submission.   
Thank you.
--------------Yesterday's FULL STORY BELOW!--------

Daniel Schmutter, lead Counsel for the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, announced an hour ago the results of communications with the Monmouth County Prosecutor's Office concerning handgun carry permit restrictions. Although we're saddened by this news, it's not surprising given the obvious panic attack that our overlords in Trenton have been going through since June 23rd when the Bruen decision was announced! The first group of carry permit applicants in Monmouth County were GIVEN UNTIL TOMORROW to decide whether or not to go along with the UNNAMED restrictions or NOT, including the possibility of not carrying a loaded handgun in ANY vehicle you're in, thus RENDERING the PERMIT itself almost USELESS! 

From Attorney Daniel Schmutter: 

On behalf of the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs (“ANJRPC”) I spoke with the Monmouth County Prosecutor’s Office regarding their recent contact with some handgun carry permit applicants requesting that the applicants agree to certain restrictions and conditions on their permits.

Here's what the Prosecutor’s Office told us:

First, they indicated that none of the applicants contacted are required to agree to the requested conditions.

Second, they indicated that if applicants do not agree to the requested conditions, they do not intend to oppose the application, and they do not intend to request conditions from the judge deciding the permit application. However, the Prosecutor’s Office does intend to specifically advise the judge that the applicant did not agree to any conditions. This is in contrast to simply saying nothing to the judge.

Third, they indicated that they believe that if an applicant does not agree to some or all of their requested conditions, the judge may impose even more conditions. However, they could not predict whether or not the judge might impose more conditions anyway even if the applicant does agree to the requested conditions. The Prosecutor’s Office did not offer guarantees either way of what the judge might or might not do.

Fourth, they indicated that they have asked the first group of applicants contacted to decide by Tuesday September 20, 2022 what they wish to do regarding the requested conditions.

While we can report what they told us, we cannot vouch for the truthfulness of their statements to us. Their implication is that applicants who do not consent to their requested conditions may face more stringent conditions imposed by the judge, but they did not attempt to guarantee what the judge will actually do either way.

Applicants who have been contacted by the Monmouth County Prosecutor’s Office may wish to directly and independently verify with that office the information above, and address any other questions directly with the individual at the Prosecutor’s Office who contacted you, before deciding whether or not to accept their requested conditions.

Applicants MAY WISH TO RETAIN AN ATTORNEY to assist with any aspect of this process, whether to communicate with the Prosecutor’s Office regarding any questions, to address timing issues, to obtain advice about whether or not to agree to any conditions, to negotiate the quantity or specific language of the requested conditions, to advise on what the judge may or may not do based on what the applicant chooses to do, or any other aspect of this process.  THIS MESSAGE IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE -- you should only rely on advice from an attorney retained by YOU".

EDITOR'S NOTE:

So, there it is folks. Our Governor lives in Monmouth County, and he hates GUNZ ('cept those carried by his security detail that is)! As more news becomes available, we'll be sharing it with our readers!

---The Editor
#CNJFO #2A #2AHeavyLifters #2AShallNotBeInfringed #gun #guns #2amendment #firearmsafety #ANJRPC

That's unexpected positive news on the restrictions .... now, just wish I heard something from Monmouth County on my PTC packet. 

9 minutes ago, Lucky Lefty said:

Update from Berkeley Township PD

As of yesterday, 4 permits have been returned, approved, to the pd from ocean county superior court.

These are the first 4 permits to be issued out of Berkeley Township, and it was confirmed that each of the 4 permits do have the attached list of 12 orders that include the "cannot carry in or on any motor vehicle" restriction.

If you can, communicate to these folks that they should contact strikeforce@anjrpc.org

8 minutes ago, galapoola said:

If you can, communicate to these folks that they should contact strikeforce@anjrpc.org

I don't know who the 4 permits are.

I was informed by the clerk at the pd when I inquired if any permits have come back from the Court yet.

Hoping 1, some, or all of them come forward on one of these platforms so we can figure out how to move forward with fighting this ridiculous list or orders

20 hours ago, galapoola said:

The fed could set a minimum standard and any state issued permit that meets this would qualify for nationwide.

How does that work with states that have no permit and are constitutional carry?

9 minutes ago, YankeeSC said:

How does that work with states that have no permit and are constitutional carry?

All 50 states (IL was the last) have permits. Half the states are CC 

49 minutes ago, Lucky Lefty said:

Update from Berkeley Township PD

As of yesterday, 4 permits have been returned, approved, to the pd from ocean county superior court.

These are the first 4 permits to be issued out of Berkeley Township, and it was confirmed that each of the 4 permits do have the attached list of 12 orders that include the "cannot carry in or on any motor vehicle" restriction.

That is unfortunate, we have many "dots" connected now to show that this will be applied to everyone (not that we really thought differently).

5 hours ago, LeaveNJ said:

I hope everyone has sent a donation to ANJRPC, and has signed up for Texas Law Shield.  They are fighting the good fight for us and it would be helpful if everyone could throw a few bucks their way to keep the attorneys funded.  

I signed up for LawShield last week, at $130 a year I just couldn't resist...But are you implying that LawShield is also participating in NJ to get rid of these carry-restrictions (I didn't think they get involved in such things)?

4 hours ago, marlintag said:

I found the following information on Reddit regarding Middlesex County. if this information is true, this is good news for us in Middlesex.

 

"This is the latest update from Michael Roberts, a practicing, licensed, criminal law attorney, who is very active in the NJ firearms community.

Screen shot of post attached, along with text for those worried about clicking links. https://gyazo.com/595a979de7274b8a351bffd528983b29

Michael Roberts

A couple of updates worth noting. All applications require notarization. A NJSP memo went out recently to PD to confirm this. 
But beyond a notary signature they are being told to look for a notary stamp. What if my lawyer who holds the power of a notary and 
signs instead, you ask? No good. Have to see the Stamp says one town in Ocean County. Middlesex County is processing Carry Permits. 
They are backlogged by about 70. Judge Rea who had been handling gun permitting issues in the County for decades is giving it up. 
He is passing the torch to Judges Corson and Jimenez. This will cause an initial further delay then more timely processing. One hopes. 
The AOC is working on a system to remove the Judges entirely from the process. Finally, the Middlesex County Prosecutors Office 
is not directly involved but is available should a town have a concern. In which case, they then become involved."
 

Don’t know if this is good or bad.

Good if things go according to law

Bad if excuse to start 30 day clock afresh