So all the new "AR" style rifles being sold today.......are they selling then without stock/brace?

1 minute ago, dino71 said:

So all the new "AR" style rifles being sold today.......are they selling then without stock/brace?

If they are rifles, they will have a stock already and a 16" or longer barrel. SBRs are verboten in NJ

You probably mean the non-NFA Other Firearms.

3 minutes ago, dino71 said:

So all the new "AR" style rifles being sold today.......are they selling then without stock/brace?

Pistol/Others?

 

This is so confusing. So lets say you have one of the AR's with the "OTHER" stamped on it. Is this one exempt for these new rules? I think mine has a 16" barrel but it does have an adjustable brace/screw on flash suppressor and forward grip . Will we need to install a real stock now like an old school 70's AR?

2 hours ago, dino71 said:

This is so confusing. So lets say you have one of the AR's with the "OTHER" stamped on it. Is this one exempt for these new rules? I think mine has a 16" barrel but it does have an adjustable brace/screw on flash suppressor and forward grip . Will we need to install a real stock now like an old school 70's AR?

It's a product of the Biden Administration, what exactly did you expect?

I seriously doubt this will go ANYWHERE, but here it is:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gaetz-introduces-abolish-atf-act-ruling-against-stabilizing-braces

you're right. it won't gain any traction. would be fantastic if it did.

 

 i'm waiting to hear about the lawsuits to stop the brace ban, as it goes against bruen at the least, the 2a at the worst.....

The Federalist chimes in.

New ATF Rule Turns Millions Of Gun Owners Into Felons (thefederalist.com)

I just confirmed it at the atf booth.   Yes.  Your other rifle now has to have a 16” or longer.  You have until july to comply.   Do what you want. Its not the brace thats the problem.  Its the fact its a sbr

20 minutes ago, Golf battery said:

I just confirmed it at the atf booth.   Yes.  Your other rifle now has to have a 16” or longer.  You have until july to comply.   Do what you want. Its not the brace thats the problem.  Its the fact its a sbr

Luckily, Barrels are fairly easy to switch out!

39 minutes ago, Golf battery said:

I just confirmed it at the atf booth.   Yes.  Your other rifle now has to have a 16” or longer.  You have until july to comply.   Do what you want. Its not the brace thats the problem.  Its the fact its a sbr

Or hear me out.. you do nothing because they can do nothing. 

The fact is, it is NOT an SBR by statutory definition, and that is all that matters in a court room. 

These "rules" are designed to fuck with FFLs and manufacturers and get them to stop selling these items... they can lose their licenses just because the ATF says so.. 

Bumpstock, 80% recievers, and now braces.... millions of people freely use these items and will continue knowing full well the ATF rules cant make it through an indictment. 

1 hour ago, Golf battery said:

I just confirmed it at the atf booth.   Yes.  Your other rifle now has to have a 16” or longer.  You have until july to comply.   Do what you want. Its not the brace thats the problem.  Its the fact its a sbr

The person you talked to has their head up their ass.

1 hour ago, Golf battery said:

I just confirmed it at the atf booth.   Yes.  Your other rifle now has to have a 16” or longer.  You have until july to comply.   Do what you want. Its not the brace thats the problem.  Its the fact its a sbr

How can it be an SBR if it is not an 'R'

From DSI website:

"It is not a RIFLE, as it does not have a stock and is not designed to be fired from the shoulder."

https://www.dark-storm.com/dsi/ds-15/ds-15-typhoon-rifles/dark-storm-ds-15-non-nfa-firearm-typhoon-5.56-black/

 

The ATF is booth getting a lot of positive response?

I agree.  I said its an other firearm.   Tried to explain the difference.  All he kept saying is if the barrel is less than 16”.  Its a sbr.  I told him.  You guys gave out a letter to troy okaying it as an other. Then both agents said if its not a 16” its a sbr.  I kept telling him.  Theyre friggin idiots. 

19 minutes ago, leahcim said:

How can it be an SBR if it is not an 'R'

From DSI website:

"It is not a RIFLE, as it does not have a stock and is not designed to be fired from the shoulder."

https://www.dark-storm.com/dsi/ds-15/ds-15-typhoon-rifles/dark-storm-ds-15-non-nfa-firearm-typhoon-5.56-black/

 

The ATF is booth getting a lot of positive response?

Getting alot of sneers.  There was like 8 agents at the booth.  Also its not about the brace its about the barell.  And bumpstocks are gtg now.  Honestly.   I wouldn’t do anything in mods till the last moment 

"26 U.S.C., § 5485(a)

§ 5845(c) — The term “Rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder, and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.'

Due to the brace and the FVG, it is not designed or intended to be fired from the shoulder.

26 minutes ago, Golf battery said:

I agree.  I said its an other firearm.   Tried to explain the difference.  All he kept saying is if the barrel is less than 16”.  Its a sbr.  I told him.  You guys gave out a letter to troy okaying it as an other. Then both agents said if its not a 16” its a sbr.  I kept telling him.  Theyre friggin idiots. 

Wow, sounds like scientologists or other cult members. Don't think, just keep repeating what they're told.

Thanks for engaging them and reporting back!

Has this been posted yet?

stabilizing_brace_final_rule-sec508-v2 (1).pdf

Thats pretty much the spew he gave me.  I think tomorrow.  Ill go back there and do a tiktok with them in the back ground.   Just to troll them. 

3 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

Luckily, Barrels are fairly easy to switch out!

wouldn't one just switch out the entire upper at that point?

 

 or couldn't one just weld or pin a long enough muzzle device?

3 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

Or hear me out.. you do nothing because they can do nothing. 

The fact is, it is NOT an SBR by statutory definition, and that is all that matters in a court room. 

These "rules" are designed to fuck with FFLs and manufacturers and get them to stop selling these items... they can lose their licenses just because the ATF says so.. 

Bumpstock, 80% recievers, and now braces.... millions of people freely use these items and will continue knowing full well the ATF rules cant make it through an indictment. 

what happens if there's a leo range member, they see someone using the brace, and decide to dime them out?

37 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

what happens if there's a leo range member, they see someone using the brace, and decide to dime them out?

This is the dilemma with the self-enforcement that comes with these rules. Most likely no one will know or care, but what happens if the walls are indeed listening?

Thats pretty much the spew he gave me.  I think tomorrow.  Ill go back there and do a tiktok with them in the back ground.   Just to troll them. 

Wait for tomorrow’s interview with them.  

10 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

what happens if there's a leo range member, they see someone using the brace, and decide to dime them out?

On multiple occasions the ATF has tried to go after people and they ultimately "did nothing". It's apparently better to keep the rules on the books for these purposes than have them stuck down trying to go after a single individual. 

In 2019 A guy in Texas was charged, and the charges later dropped for a bump stock by the DOJ. 

9 hours ago, Lawnmower2021 said:

This is the dilemma with the self-enforcement that comes with these rules. Most likely no one will know or care, but what happens if the walls are indeed listening?

i asked that question due to membership at a club i shoot at.......close to a dozen local leo's are members of this club. worst part, is that i don't know who they are......

21 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

On multiple occasions the ATF has tried to go after people and they ultimately "did nothing". It's apparently better to keep the rules on the books for these purposes than have them stuck down trying to go after a single individual. 

In 2019 A guy in Texas was charged, and the charges later dropped for a bump stock by the DOJ. 

how much did it end up costing the bumpstock guy?

2 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

i asked that question due to membership at a club i shoot at.......close to a dozen local leo's are members of this club. worst part, is that i don't know who they are......

how much did it end up costing the bumpstock guy?

What's the cost of freedom? 

You have 2 options here. Cower over the new rules, get rid of your others and spend money modifying them... you cant sell them BTW. 

Or, call their bluff. 

Are well all going to just let the FATF roll all over our 2a rights? Especially over something with such ambiguity. 

So what do I do with my Troy A4 Other?  Get it modified is my only option? 

34 minutes ago, FunGun said:

So what do I do with my Troy A4 Other?  Get it modified is my only option? 

Please reach out to Tech Ops International and/or Troy.  They should have a solution for you and/or they should be filing a suit against the ATF.  If they don't have either, as an A4 owner, please pressure them to do so.  

https://techopsinternational.com/troy-a4-other-firearm/

44 minutes ago, ESB said:

Please reach out to Tech Ops International and/or Troy.  They should have a solution for you and/or they should be filing a suit against the ATF.  If they don't have either, as an A4 owner, please pressure them to do so.  

https://techopsinternational.com/troy-a4-other-firearm/

Done.  Hope others do the same.  On the Tech Ops website, I couldn’t find the letter from the NJ State Police saying the “other firearm” was legal in NJ.  Wondering if they recently removed it?