1 hour ago, oldguysrule649 said:

This is a follow-up to my Feb 6th post regarding the Pistol Storage Device.  Please refer to it first.  The information below is intended to complete my writeup of my experience with this device.  Do with this what you will.  YMMV & IANAL.

Thank you for the write up with your review!

As a Troy A4 Other owner, is the advice still to sit tight and wait to see what happens in the courts?  Has there been any updates on this Brace/SBR issue?  This whole thing is ridiculous and a waste of time and money…

2 hours ago, FunGun said:

As a Troy A4 Other owner, is the advice still to sit tight and wait to see what happens in the courts?  Has there been any updates on this Brace/SBR issue?  This whole thing is ridiculous and a waste of time and money…

Correct.  If the court cases are delayed and the 120 days expires, all you need to do is remove your brace from your A4 Other and you're fine for the time being.  You do NOT have to convert your Other to a Rifle.  You should not convert your Other to a Rifle, as you can't convert it back.

12 minutes ago, Krdshrk said:

You should not convert your Other to a Rifle, as you can't convert it back.

Why not?

17 minutes ago, PK90 said:

Why not?

Well you could but it's not 100% kosher according to the ATF... though what they don't know... lol.

By ATF - you would have to form 1 it.  

A firearm that was originally a rifle would be classified as a “weapon made from a rifle” if it has either a barrel less than 16 inches in length or an overall length of less than 26 inches. If an individual wishes to make an NFA firearm, they must first submit ATF Form 1 (Application to Make and Register a Firearm), pay a $200.00 making tax, and receive approval of the application from ATF before converting the firearm.
[18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3); 26 U.S.C. § 5845(a)(3)-(4)]

23 minutes ago, Krdshrk said:

Well you could but it's not 100% kosher according to the ATF... though what they don't know... lol.

By ATF - you would have to form 1 it.  

A firearm that was originally a rifle ...

Is that an NFA quote? IMO, it is different than GCA rules. Neither a pistol, other, nor a non-NFA were originally a rifle. 

I always was guided by, "first a rifle, always a rifle". A pistol (not sure about others) can be built into a rifle then back to it's original classification.

IMO, it will be years if the rule is overturned. Right now, I am waiting on 5 Form 1s, and will do more the end of May if there is no movement in the courts. My NJ resident brother added a 5" brake and stock to his Troy.

 

1 minute ago, PK90 said:

Is that an NFA quote? IMO, it is different than GCA rules. Neither a pistol, other, nor a non-NFA were originally a rifle. 

I always was guided by, "first a rifle, always a rifle". A pistol (not sure about others) can be built into a rifle then back to it's original classification.

IMO, it will be years if the rule is overturned. Right now, I am waiting on 5 Form 1s, and will do more the end of May if there is no movement in the courts. My NJ resident brother added a 5" brake and stock to his Troy.

Yeah - NFA quote from ATF... I guess you could use the Originally portion to cover that grey area.  IANAL.

I've been exploring other options as well, but with 6+ lawsuits against the ATF on this, I'm feeling optimistic that it'll get at least a TRO and then slapped down.

1 hour ago, PK90 said:

That yard stick is bringing back bad memories for me.

On 3/5/2023 at 11:15 AM, CMJeepster said:

That yard stick is bringing back bad memories for me.

Is that 5" brake pinned and welded?  

4 minutes ago, ESB said:

Is that 5" brake pinned and welded?  

5 or 6. I forget. But it is P&W.

15 minutes ago, PK90 said:

5 or 6. I forget. But it is P&W.

220.  221.  Whatever it takes.

On 3/5/2023 at 9:37 AM, PK90 said:

Is that an NFA quote? IMO, it is different than GCA rules. Neither a pistol, other, nor a non-NFA were originally a rifle. 

I always was guided by, "first a rifle, always a rifle". A pistol (not sure about others) can be built into a rifle then back to it's original classification.

IMO, it will be years if the rule is overturned. Right now, I am waiting on 5 Form 1s, and will do more the end of May if there is no movement in the courts. My NJ resident brother added a 5" brake and stock to his Troy.

 

So the brake and stock makes it completely legal in NJ?

3 hours ago, FunGun said:

So the brake and stock makes it completely legal in NJ?

Converts it from an Other into a NJ-Legal Rifle.  

7 hours ago, PK90 said:

5 or 6. I forget. But it is P&W.

Do you have a brand name and a model for this m break by any chance ? 

16 hours ago, CMJeepster said:

220.  221.  Whatever it takes.

You want a beer?

But it's 10 O'clock

Scotch 

It's getting closer to March 31st, supposedly a deadline to take care of the "other" issue.  Any new info on what's happening?  I haven't done anything with my Troy A4 yet...

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/feb/10/bidens-plan-go-after-pistol-stabilizing-braces-hit/

1 hour ago, FunGun said:

It's getting closer to March 31st, supposedly a deadline to take care of the "other" issue.  Any new info on what's happening?  I haven't done anything with my Troy A4 yet...

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/feb/10/bidens-plan-go-after-pistol-stabilizing-braces-hit/

March 31st? Isn't that only roughly 60 days? I thought the magic number was 120 days.

3 hours ago, Xtors said:

March 31st? Isn't that only roughly 60 days? I thought the magic number was 120 days.

It is 120 days, as it says in the article.

Oops, I thought I heard previously that the deadline was 3/31.  I guess that was wrong.  So 120 days from what date? 

16 hours ago, FunGun said:

Oops, I thought I heard previously that the deadline was 3/31.  I guess that was wrong.  So 120 days from what date? 

January 31, when it was published in the federal register.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/01/31/2023-01001/factoring-criteria-for-firearms-with-attached-stabilizing-braces

Tordsen Customs Buffer Tube Cover w/ CAA Cheek Weld Saddle.  Not a brace, not a stock.  Shoulderable.  Makes for a nice cheek weld.  

https://www.thordsencustoms.com/ar-ak-enhanced-pistol-cheek-rest-kit-w-caa-saddle-black.html

7 minutes ago, Krdshrk said:

Tordsen Customs Buffer Tube Cover w/ CAA Cheek Weld Saddle.  Not a brace, not a stock.  Shoulderable.  Makes for a nice cheek weld.  

https://www.thordsencustoms.com/ar-ak-enhanced-pistol-cheek-rest-kit-w-caa-saddle-black.html

The ATF is not going to like this... 

 

wonder if this will fit on my Troy.... Thank you for posting this up

17 minutes ago, H2oVento said:

The ATF is not going to like this... 

 

they'll be tryin to ban that soon enough....

9 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

they'll be tryin to ban that soon enough....

Probably already is. 

The law doesn't ban braces from these guns, it bans ANYTHING that has surface area to be shouldered. 

That "cover" has an ATF letter dated from years ago... where as some braces recieved the same ATF approval. 

The ATF just has to show it has more surface area than a bare extension tube, and they have satisfied the rule banning it. 

Question about constructive intent.  If one owns one or more standard AR pattern rifles, and also owns at least one "other", does constructive intent come into play?  Let's say you replaced a stock on a carbine, and the old butt stock now sits in a box somewhere in the house, what's to stop someone from just slipping the old stock on to an "other", or pulling a stock from a proper carbine and slipping it on an "other"?

33 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

Question about constructive intent.  If one owns one or more standard AR pattern rifles, and also owns at least one "other", does constructive intent come into play? 

It shouldn't be a problem if everything is currently assembled and legal. If this were an issue, anyone with both NFA legal SBRs and rifles, would have legal issues with the rifles since uppers can be swapped to non nfa lowers. 

 

Let's say you replaced a stock on a carbine, and the old butt stock now sits in a box somewhere in the house, what's to stop someone from just slipping the old stock on to an "other", or pulling a stock from a proper carbine and slipping it on an "other"?

If the other has a bare extension tube, you are looking at a big problem. If it has something that first needs to be removed, you're still in a grey area but a bit more defensible. 

 

8 hours ago, Scorpio64 said:

Question about constructive intent.  If one owns one or more standard AR pattern rifles, and also owns at least one "other", does constructive intent come into play?  Let's say you replaced a stock on a carbine, and the old butt stock now sits in a box somewhere in the house, what's to stop someone from just slipping the old stock on to an "other", or pulling a stock from a proper carbine and slipping it on an "other"?

 

If you have an Other, and a stock or even a pistol brace accessory that is not installed on anything, you could easily run afoul of Constructive Intent.  Best to store them at a different location if possible.  Def don't store it right next to where you store your Other.  

ATF ‘Acts as a Fifth Column for Gun Control Advocacy Groups,’ Witness Testifies at Congressional Hearing (theepochtimes.com)

30 minutes ago, 45Doll said:

ATF ‘Acts as a Fifth Column for Gun Control Advocacy Groups,’ Witness Testifies at Congressional Hearing (theepochtimes.com)

"Swearer agreed that the ATF had done excellent work. But, she said, throughout its history, ATF has also been involved in some high-profile scandals and other lesser-known bad acts."

------

How about we look into this and also the FBI?  Just saying...