Hypothetically.. in NJ..

 

Could I have an AK under folder with the stock permanently welded/pinned in the folded position, so that only the pistol grip was usable and not the shoulder stock?

Hypothetically.. in NJ..

 

Could I have an AK under folder with the stock permanently welded/pinned in the folded position, so that only the pistol grip was usable and not the shoulder stock?

 

 

my instinctive answer is no...

 

the ONLY thing i can think of is this..

 

if you negate the stock completely.. then does that not make it a pistol?

 

its like saying can i just remove the stock completely? if you pin it closed.. it technically no longer has a functioning stock..

 

BUT in the same breath.. if it STILL meets the overall length.. then MAYBE its still ok..

 

i honestly think you are on to something that has not been dealt with? or at least not that i am aware of..

 

i would LOVE to find a work around to an AK pistol..

here is your answer... info borrowed from another thread..

 

A rifle means " any firearm1 designed to be fired from the shoulder...."

I read an article on the Puma Bounty Hunter. As I recall It is classified as a pistol because it was assembled as a pistol. If a rifle stock was attached to the receiver at any time and then cut down you run into a legal issue. Since the Puma was assembled with a short barrel and cut down stock from the get go it is classified as a pistol. I don't know how this translates to a folding stock.

i would LOVE to find a work around to an AK pistol..

 

This.

I read an article on the Puma Bounty Hunter. As I recall It is classified as a pistol because it was assembled as a pistol. If a rifle stock was attached to the receiver at any time and then cut down you run into a legal issue. Since the Puma was assembled with a short barrel and cut down stock from the get go it is classified as a pistol. I don't know how this translates to a folding stock.

 

 

Wow.. I just googled it.. and now I need to get one.. goddamn.. i hate gun questions.. thanks alot.. :-( :-)

 

This one wouldn't be a problem in NJ because it's not semi-auto...

 

The AK pistol which is assembled as a pistol is not legal.. but the question is.. does removing the stock from an AK rifle make it illegal in NJ... :idea: :?:

if a mossberg cruiser is legal (pistol grip only shotgun, 26" OAL).....

 

as long as the AK is still over 26" with the stock permanently folded, you are good to go. although bringing it to a public range in this state like ft dix or the bullet hole or somewhere similar, where the range nazi's might not know the laws would be a bad idea, because they might report you to [email protected] or call the police.

Mossber 500 is a slightly different story though.. because it is not a semi....

 

I'm inclined to think it would be ok.. but as with anything in NJ, I guess its a "grey area".

In NJ always ask yourself, Do I want to be the test case?

In NJ always ask yourself, Do I want to be the test case?

 

F*=K NO.

But.. Do i want an AK "pistol"?

 

F*=k Yes!

Dude, no gun is worth being Bubba's Honey.

As is why I am researching first

Mossber 500 is a slightly different story though.. because it is not a semi....

 

I'm inclined to think it would be ok.. but as with anything in NJ, I guess its a "grey area".

 

 

right.. the shotgun logic fails in this case because its a semi automatic rifle..

 

i really think the can of worms you are opening is fail either way...

 

because if you look at how they define the word rifle.. its a firearm fired from the shoulder.. making it NOT fired from the shoulder would in turn make it a pistol.. and id bet anything that NJ has some laws on the book that make converting a rifle to a pistol is VERY illegal..

Mossber 500 is a slightly different story though.. because it is not a semi....

 

I'm inclined to think it would be ok.. but as with anything in NJ, I guess its a "grey area".

 

 

right.. the shotgun logic fails in this case because its a semi automatic rifle..

 

i really think the can of worms you are opening is fail either way...

 

because if you look at how they define the word rifle.. its a firearm fired from the shoulder.. making it NOT fired from the shoulder would in turn make it a pistol.. and id bet anything that NJ has some laws on the book that make converting a rifle to a pistol is VERY illegal..

 

It's just discussion at this point.. My AK is NJ compliant currently...

 

Well.. there are federal laws which prohibit turning a rifle into a pistol.. but going the other way (pistol into rifle).. is OK.

 

PK90 explained that on the federal level, when a gun is "born".. it is registered as either rifle or pistol.. like an AR lower. you can't use a "regular" lower to build a pistol, it has to be sold as a pistol lower.

 

I just looked up the "rifle definition" under 13ch54.. and i kind of agree with you now.. it sucks how clear that line is, but how skewed the definitions of "handgun and shotgun" are..

Ponder these:

1. The ATF says you can pin or remove the stock and it won't be classified as a SBR as long as the OAL is 26".

2. How did you buy your JIC? With a COE correct? Can it be fired from the shoulder?

Ponder these:

1. The ATF says you can pin or remove the stock and it won't be classified as a SBR as long as the OAL is 26".

2. How did you buy your JIC? With a COE correct? Can it be fired from the shoulder?

 

 

atf just governs firearms on a federal level.. i think that pinning the stock closed.. or even removing the stock on the federal level is fine... its NJ law that is the concern..

 

i think that this is the issue as i was kind of saying before...

 

your gun is a pistol rifle or shotgun... and each has its own special rules even within those groups..

we get away with PG shotguns because they are pump...

under NJ law it states a rifle IS a firearm fired from the shoulder.. that is clear as could be..

so when you completely remove the stock you can no longer fire it from the shoulder that's why AR's can be pinned wherever because even at the most collapsed setting they still have a functioning stock...

 

I think that if you found an AK stock that slid closed so that it was REALLY collapsed you could argue in some bizare world that it is still intended to be fired from the shoulder..

 

im just not sure about the common AK folders..

 

but then the other side of the argument is this...

just because the stock is pinned closed.... does that mean the GUN is not designed to be fired from the shoulder? not really.. the gun still is..

Hey PK90..

 

As for #1, I know the Fed's are OK with removing the stock, NJ is the question :? :?: :cry:

 

#2 has got me wondering, by NJ's definition, its not really a shotgun or a handgun.. no, it can't be fired from the shoulder, but it's not really designed to be fired one handed either.. Mossberg says in the manual to fire from the hip only..

 

and for technicalities, I can fire my Mauser one handed too

think of it this way... was a glock designed to be fired from the shoulder ?

was an AK designed to be fired from the shoulder ?

 

its current configuration is irrelevant, but it can be argued that its ORIGINAL configuration dictates its status as a rifle or pistol.

think of it this way... was a glock designed to be fired from the shoulder ?

was an AK designed to be fired from the shoulder ?

 

its current configuration is irrelevant, but it can be argued that its ORIGINAL configuration dictates its status as a rifle or pistol.

 

 

but with semi-auto rifles in NJ, its CURRENT configuration matters.. which is why we have the "evil features" list.. AFAIK..

I received a legal Federally transferred Mossberg 590A1 14" AOW a few years back. When the NJSP (firearms unit) saw it, they said it was a sawed off shotgun. After our 2 day discussion on the matter, they said if it wasn't a shotgun, they would consider it a destructive device. :roll: Well, I got rid of it without incident. BTW, they did not even know what an AOW was.

Hey PK90..

 

As for #1, I know the Fed's are OK with removing the stock, NJ is the question :? :?: :cry:

 

#2 has got me wondering, by NJ's definition, its not really a shotgun or a handgun.. no, it can't be fired from the shoulder, but it's not really designed to be fired one handed either.. Mossberg says in the manual to fire from the hip only..

 

and for technicalities, I can fire my Mauser one handed too

 

i think if you just cut to the chase as disappointing as the answer is its pretty clear...

 

"Rifle" means any firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder and using the energy of the explosive in a fixed

metallic cartridge to fire a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

 

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/fi ... 3-ch54.pdf

 

when you remove the stock its no longer meant to be fired from the shoulder... the law says nothing about being fired one handed..

 

it simply says

fired from shoulder? yes - rifle

fired from shoulder? no - not a rifle

 

now i DO see for handgun..

 

"Handgun" means any pistol, revolver, or other firearm originally designed or manufactured to be fired by the use of

a single hand.

 

and since it does not fit that classification either... you are kind of creating something that does not really get addressed by state law?

 

by the definitions they have for rifle and handgun its not technically either..

 

actually i just saw this also..

POSSESSION OF A SAWED-OFF SHOTGUN

(N.J.S.A. 2C:39-3b)

Page 2 of 4

length measured from the breech to the muzzle; or (3) any firearm made from a rifle or shotgun that, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches.4

 

so MAYBE if its long enough its still ok?

 

this really IS confusing..

 

im not sure it even technically NEEDS a stock..

 

i think thats what you HAVE to find out..

If I take the stock off my AK.. it ceases to exist

If I take the stock off my AK.. it ceases to exist

 

 

as ridiculous as that sounds.. i think that might in fact be the case?

 

im REALLY interested in this as i have a Saiga with an ACE block.. so if i did unbolt the stock.. its already nice and clean..

 

i almost think you have found a loop hole.. as i do not see ANYWHERE that says you HAVE to have a stock..

 

just because its not a rifle under definition does that make it illegal? NO?

 

its certainly not a pistol

and its certainly not "sawed off" by definition of length..

well? lol

I don't have any guns any more, I took all the stocks off

No srsly.. since there is no definite answer.. I decided to wait on it..

 

I was thinking about it.. and aside from being cool, it wouldn't be very practical..

 

So, that means I would have to buy ANOTHER AK dedicated to be stock less.. and well, that causes it's own problems.

No srsly.. since there is no definite answer.. I decided to wait on it..

 

I was thinking about it.. and aside from being cool, it wouldn't be very practical..

 

So, that means I would have to buy ANOTHER AK dedicated to be stock less.. and well, that causes it's own problems.

 

 

after really reading it.. as long as you meet length requirements i think you are fine..

No srsly.. since there is no definite answer.. I decided to wait on it..

 

I was thinking about it.. and aside from being cool, it wouldn't be very practical..

 

So, that means I would have to buy ANOTHER AK dedicated to be stock less.. and well, that causes it's own problems.

 

 

after really reading it.. as long as you meet length requirements i think you are fine..

 

Ok, you do it first :mrgreen:

No srsly.. since there is no definite answer.. I decided to wait on it..

 

I was thinking about it.. and aside from being cool, it wouldn't be very practical..

 

So, that means I would have to buy ANOTHER AK dedicated to be stock less.. and well, that causes it's own problems.

 

 

after really reading it.. as long as you meet length requirements i think you are fine..

 

Ok, you do it first :mrgreen:

 

i will as soon as i can find someone to weld on a muzzle brake... that will get me over the length..