ok we talked about it a lot.. and just kicking around ideas..

 

http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/charge ... apons2.htm

 

if i take THIS gun

 

 

and use this rear block (that i already have), WITHOUT a stock

 

 

i get a "rifle" with NO stock that is roughly 26 3/4 inches long

 

i can NOT come up with a reason that this "rifle" would be illegal...

 

barrel longer than 16 inches

over all length more than 26 inches

only TWO evil features (pistol grip, detachable mag)

 

is there ANYTHING that makes this illegal? it would STILL technically be a rifle?

 

disclaimer: i have NOT done this yet.. lol

I thought about that also. I would expect the state to try and come up with something, like an illegal pistol. (weight and detachable mag in front)

I thought about that also. I would expect the state to try and come up with something, like an illegal pistol. (weight and detachable mag in front)

 

its not a pistol... is it?

 

or any firearm made from a rifle or a shotgun, whether by alteration, or otherwise, if such firearm as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.

 

this is NOT less than 26 inches so does it apply?

IMO, It is still a rifle and legal, as it was "designed" to be fired from the shoulder.

 

BTW, it only has one evil feature. A detachable mag is not considered a feature. It is a pre-qualifier for a NJ SAW.

I thought about that also. I would expect the state to try and come up with something, like an illegal pistol. (weight and detachable mag in front)

 

its not a pistol... is it?

 

I was joking. I expect the state to try and ban anything cool.

Isn't this the same as a few members who have cut down a single shot shotgun to fire it in one hand and still maintain legal OAL?

Isn't this the same as a few members who have cut down a single shot shotgun to fire it in one hand and still maintain legal OAL?

 

I thought that was much safer because it doesn't apply to the evil features list.

Isn't this the same as a few members who have cut down a single shot shotgun to fire it in one hand and still maintain legal OAL?

 

I thought that was much safer because it doesn't apply to the evil features list.

 

 

i was thinking the same at first but then when i really thought about it i got to the following conclusion..

 

1) NO stock is NOT an evil feature? so it doesnt play into evil feature parts count..

2) by the legal definition there appears to be no difference when comparing a rifle OR shotgun that is too short

I believe you are in very grey area territory.

 

There are (BAD & VERY cheesy colored) "AR type" "pistols" being sold in NJ w/ SHORT barrels, less than 16"(?) and NO stock.

 

Not 'decked out' like these, but you get the point:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b ... 2&t=245757

 

Of course, there is no "allowance" for ANY collapsable stock on ANY rifle, (w/ shotguns as exceptions).

 

I believe the stock on your Saiga (and mine) might be too long? Or better yet. It is 'classified' on your paperwork originally as a 'rifle' and therefore would remain as such.

 

I would love these rifle "pistols" and it would be the only way around SBR regs -IMO.

 

NJ just sucks.