We were discussing this today at the range.

 

Some things were mentioned, like non-concurrency of the permit process which in the real world could limit you to perhaps 2-3 handguns a year when police departments break the law and sit on permits for 3-4 months.

 

Have the details of the permit process been published? I can't find the full text of OGAM, just summaries.

probably not published yet as the 'task force' just met with 'the public' the other day.

I haven't heard or received anything yet

There is nothing to stop a department from issuing more than one a month. In fact my department suggests getting two or three when the application is submitted to avoid multiple $18.00 charges. The only limit is use of more than one a month. As the three expiration dates can be extended to cover a three month period, all three could be used in theory. In reality, I never saw that many multiple purchases when they weren't restricted.

 

There is a new commander in the Firearm's Division and some things have changed recently. Keeping current can be tricky.

Keeping current can be tricky.

 

That right there is the honest truth.

So what we can expect is this.

 

Since the laws are intentionally vague, some anti-gun departments will:

• -String out the permit process to 6-9 months
  -Prevent concurrent permitting. You can't get more until you use the one you have, then go back to point 1
  -Limit permits to one at a time since the fiction will be that you can get one every 30 days(until you actually attempt to get one then see point 1 again)

 

I'm sure there's some other ways to screw with us that they'll invent. I just haven't figured it out yet.

Limit permits to one at a time since the fiction will be that you can get one every 30 days(until you actually attempt to get one then see point 1 again)

 

That is not a requirement. Only executing more than one permit a month is a violation. Nothing states more than one can be produced. Very little has come down to the PD level at this point and that may or may not change in the future.

... The only limit is use of more than one a month... .

 

But there is currently no system in place to regulate this.. what are the plans here? Or is that the big question.

... The only limit is use of more than one a month... .

 

But there is currently no system in place to regulate this.. what are the plans here? Or is that the big question.

 

Yes.

 

What are the plans?

 

While there is nothing to suggest that you can only get one permit at a time, who doesn't think some anti-gun depts will infringe in this fashion if given leeway?

What are the plans?

I have no idea. I bs'ed with the department's Detective who has handled the permit process for years and has been through many of the changes. The last actual documentation outlining the process was distributed in 1997. After that point, it was seminars and small updates.

 

I was surprised at the fact that more than one permit would be issued at a time. How are they tracking them? No idea. The local department isn't going to want the burden. they have enough to do in other areas without that responsibility. We talked about the new $18.00 charge for the BI. That actually was in place for years but never enforced. the new supervisor is now enforcing the fee. Simply a money and income issue. It seems to now be required for each application which is why he advises requesting multiple permits. (3). That may stop in the future but who knows. We both seem to agree the $18.00 on top of the NICs fees are bs and simply a income source for the state. One or the other but not both. Best bet is a free NIC check as that is more current.

 

Until the laws allow the use of NCIC for admin use, the process will not change on the municipal level. But at this point, the best he can do for clearing a PP is four weeks. It doesn't matter it the Pope wants one, four weeks.

I hate to pass on second hand information that may or may not be accurate because it always comes back to bite me in the left cheek, but I'll make an exception here. This is not Gospel, just the understanding of 2 of the 4 dealers I spoke with on Saturday. If it turns out to be wrong, don't yell at me, and don't even assume that it's etched in stone.

 

I was told that there will be only 1 permit issued per application. However long it takes is however long it takes. The permit is good for 90 days. A new permit will not be approved until the current valid permit is either executed with a purchase or has expired. This is to prevent "stacking" (not my term, just the way it was described to me) of valid permits. After either of those 2 events has occurred, the process can begin again. I didn't ask if the permits will still be extendable for another 90 days, and I doubt if the dealers would have had any information regarding that. Neither of them seemed terribly happy with what they understand to be the new rules.

 

Some input from the dealers here would be appreciated.

I find that some not all but some dealers will tell you anything in order to cause panic and impulse buy's that being said, I was at one of the range/shops I belong to on Friday and Sunday and this topic was brought up both times I was there. There has currently been no further information passed down or written as far as they know, I also spoke with a detective from my local PD last week when dropping of a permit app. He said as far as they have been told there will be no limit to the amount of permits that can be supplied, just like now. He did say that it would be point less to get over 6 at a time because they can only be renewed once for the 90 day extension. Now who knows what will really happen but we now have information from the complete opposite side of the spectrum so expect it to be somewhere in the middle.

While the state passed the legislation, I'm sure, as in the past, they did not confer with those that will implement it. So now that it it law they will try to determine if it is at all possible.

 

Remember, these are the same people that past the still current Smart Gun Technology bill that has zero chance or ever being implemented. At least in most of our lifetimes.

... The only limit is use of more than one a month... .

 

But there is currently no system in place to regulate this.. what are the plans here? Or is that the big question.

 

 

Sure there is, a Copy of the permit, With the date of Purchase is Forwarded to both the NJSP firearms unit AND the Purchaser's local department...it's not all that hard to compare dates of purchase. I cant speak for any department but my own, but we have a file folder for every FOID holder, with all the department copies of the P2P's in order... i would assume that most agencies have something similar. It's NOT a heavy lift to compare the staes on the last purchase used and the one you're attaching on top.

That might be true for a sale through a FFL. But what about a FTF. It's up to the seller to the buyer (?) to return the copies to the department. If the department fails to follow up, they will never know of the sales. We maintained the same files for FID applicants and holders. My civilian clerk handled the filing but it wasn't done daily. In fact it was probably done only once a month or when enough were returned to warrant going into the file room.

 

It is far from a perfect system and the processing hasn't changed since the inception of the FID card. It might have been fine back then but woefully out of date at this time.

Isn't a reactive system (checking the permit dates after they are sent in) the worst kind? Let the civilian commit a crime, then nail them months later? It's almost self incrimination. How is there a fair defense to that?

 

Or.. (And I'm not suggesting anyone break the law).. just post-date the permit.

Perhaps the reality is that Corslime and crew don't really care how it is enforced other than a few showy episodes they can point to and proclaim loudly "Look how we're keeping guns off the streets!!! An otherwise non felon just made a clerical error by 24 hours and we're taking down this dangerous criminal"