Any experience with either?

in marketplace? lol

Yeah, this is bound to get moved as soon as a mod gets home from work

In the mean time... The Accupoint is a nice setup. I have no experience with the Millet. The quality of the Trijicon is VERY good. If I had to go in harms way there would be no question it would be the Trijicon over the Millet. The new 1X4 with green center German ret is the heat. I dont care for the post/traingle versions though. If you could explain a bit more the role you want to fullfil it would help in proposing options. For my needs I chose the TA33 H-G Acog over the Accupoint.

 

Shane

im figuring on buying an optic that suits the needs of both CQB for HD and mid range for the range. i figured the lack of a need for batteries with the Trijicon would be a plus

Define mid range. Whats your max distance you want to be able to cover.

 

For HD I want pure speed. That a RDS

 

For distance I want a ranging reticle.

 

The accupoint and certain models of Acog fall in between. The accupoint is great glass with great eye relief and fov. However, it can not range. If you are a both eyes open shooter and get along well with the Bindon Aiming concept the TA33 Acog may be your ticket. The non ranging ret of the Accupoint was the deal breaker for me on the rifle I was outfitting. I shoot both eyes open and do well with BAC. The down side of the Acog is its fixed 3 power. But if bac works for you, you can close the front flip on the Acog and it now runs like a dot. I have no trouble going from CQB distance to 300 meters with the TA33. Neither can co witness. So if you are good with Irons you may be better served with an Aimpoint with irons co-witnessed. Bad breath distance run the dot. Need to take a 400yd shot, go to your irons. However, this brings up an issue. Target ID. I cant id crap at distance without magnification. A lot to consider. In the end I fell in love with the simplicity of the Acog. Its the one that does each catagory really well. Not great in any of them but really good in all of them. BUT I am lucky enough to have a pretty well supplied tool box. So I have other rifles outfitted differently. To tell the truth for HD its either my 1 crappy beat to death old chopped on(but super reliable) test mule, former open class IPSC 1911 or a cheap shotty Im going to pick up because I really, really dont want to be handing over a 2 to 3k rifle to sit in some evidence locker for who knows how long. I hope this helps some.

 

Shane

I run an Eotech 517 and DMS-1; with the DMS currently on the rifle. I don't have any experience with the Accupoints, though I've toyed around with the TA31. My only comment about Trijicon, generally speaking, is that they have awesome glass. If you can get your hands on an accupoint model for a decent price, I would say go for it.

 

As for DMS-1's, the glass is pretty good considering the cost... actually, the glass is awesome considering the price. It is a tad heavy, weighing in at 18oz (other similar 1-4x aren't much lighter... normally ~16oz). Maks saw my rifle, and commented on that-- and I totally agree. Does it make it a bit of a pain for HD purposes? Maybe, but honestly if lugging around another pound is an issue, just do more PT (or consider walking around with it the PT!). As for the glass itself, its definitely not true 1x. Now, to go against the grain, could you use the both-eye open concept? Yea, I've found that there isn't much of a difference when shooting at paper 7-10m... which is what I would expect the distance to be in an HD situation.

 

Another variable scope I would recommend is Nightforce's NXS 1-4... though, its quite pricey. I've heard a lot of good things recently about their products:

http://nightforceoptics.com/nightforces ... 24nxs.html

I was just thinking of BBK's rifle. the DMS one scope is really nice and the optics clarity is really nice. it added a bit to the overall heft of the rifle, but absolutely worth it.

Optics ar ALL about compromise. You just have to find the compromises that you can live with and work for you. For example, if you need a wide field of view and magnification, the accupoint is probably best. If you need absolute speed in low light conditions. Red dot all the way. If you need eye relief dont even bother looking at any 4X Acogs. If you need ranging DO look at Acogs. My personal experiance is I just cant deploy ANY 1x4 in a CQB role(with possibly the exception of the Elcan Specter Dr which I have not tried yet). It just doesnt work for me and Ive had US Optics SN4S's on my rifle. If you are talking 200 and under and CQB is the primary role, its damn near impossible to beat a RDS. If Target ID is a concern or you need magnification, you need to figure out what compromises you can live with. Now if I were looking for a magnified optic I would hide my optic fund in the safe for about two months. Lots of new very cool stuff released at shot. Mid priced stuff too. Vortex has reportadly released some pretty trick stuff in the 5/6 hundred doller range. Lots of new 1X6 optics released. Got to wait for some first hand reviews and see what new options are available.

 

On a side note, I have also tried a couple Acogs and could not deploy these either with the same issues as the 1X4 variables and added issues of eye reliefe or the lack thearof . BUT the TA33 is different. It is small, I have the green horseshoe ret with center dot in green. It is by far the brightest Acog I have ever looked through. This solved a lot of the dark room aiming into a lit area issues I had with other acogs. I can clear a room with it fine running it like a dot, and turn and aim out the window far for a long shot with no issue. This was the first magnified optic out of all that I have tried(USO SN4S, Accupoint, IOR1X4, S&B1X4, Acog TA01NSN, TA31) I could do this with. For some it takes a little practice if they arent used to BAC but many run almost as fast as an aimpoint and have the added beni of ranging ret and magnification. I like the simplicity in running an optic this way with nothing to turn, turn on, or do. The most would be to close the front flip for added illumination thats it.

 

 

Shane

I too am trying to avoid combination optics ... want a single unit that works at HD distances or up to 200 yards.

So, I am also looking for something like the DMS-1 ... but ideally looking for 1.x-6X. In that magnification range, the prices are very high for illuminated versions and I don't want to spend that much on scope right now!

 

I am inclined to buy this Pentax. If they made this illuminated ret, that would have been a win!

I have a flat top receiver. What rings and heights are you folks running on the Millet DMS-1?

 

BTW I have a A2 fixed stock and no front sight.

I have a flat top receiver. What rings and heights are you folks running on the Millet DMS-1?

 

BTW I have a A2 fixed stock and no front sight.

 

I don't have the DMS-1. On a flattop I would think it's medium or regular height rings.

I dont have a millet but basically I dont seem to be able to ever get away with reguler hight rings for any optic on the AR platform. Its either med high or high for me. Buy hey, I think I have a big head so YMMV.

 

Shane

I don't know how I missed following up on this thread, my bad.

 

I run a DMS-1 with the Burris AR-P.E.P.R 30MM mount: http://www.burrisoptics.com/arpepr.html

So, yes, with the mount (8.7oz) and scope (18oz), it adds roughly ~26oz. The height of the mount I use isn't an issue with me, and it clears the first generation Magpul MBUS (which is notorious for not folding completely flat like the Troy models). I'm not sure what would qualify as medium or tall rings, but that mount works fine for me (and its measurements are detailed in the link for reference).

Hey bbk

 

How do you like the Burris mount? Does it hold zero if you remove and reinstall the scope?

The PEPR works just fine. Very durable, though that is also a reason why its as heavy as it is (8oz).

I don't want to say that it definitively returns to zero, but close enough for me to not notice.

There's a lot of good things said by others about the PEPR. There is no doubt though that if you want high quality, go with Larue, American Defense Mfg., Bobro, GGG, ARMS... but for $70, its not bad at all: http://swfa.com/Burris-AR-Tactical-Mounts-C1694.aspx