The Connecticut state constitution (where I am originally from) sec. 15 states that "Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state." does NJ state constitution have any such similar clause (I cant seem to find anything)? If not, do you think this has any correlation to CT gun laws being much more lax than NJ?

There is no second amendment equivalent in the NJ constitution - which is a major part of the problem. That is one reason why everyone is so anxiously awaiting the SCOTUS ruling on incorporation.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

Indeed, as you posted the Connecticut Constitution could not be more clear. It's certainly the reason why that state would respect the individual RKBA. "Lax" kind of suggests there's some leeway and that state officials could arbitrarily abridge the rights. They can't, at least not without a state supreme court ruling which supports such abridgement. I see them more as "obedient" to the contitution rather than "lax" about "alllowing" their citizens to exercise RKBA.

 

I really like the Maine version:

 

Article I.

Declaration of Rights.

 

Section 16. To keep and bear arms. Every citizen has a right to keep and bear arms and this right shall never be questioned.

 

Pretty much bulletproof

 

unclenunzie

There is no second amendment equivalent in the NJ constitution - which is a major part of the problem. That is one reason why everyone is so anxiously awaiting the SCOTUS ruling on incorporation.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

What the SCOTUS ruling have to do with your gun right? If there is no second amendment equivalent in the NJ constitution, sorry I'm lost.

see recent thread: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5462

There is no second amendment equivalent in the NJ constitution - which is a major part of the problem. That is one reason why everyone is so anxiously awaiting the SCOTUS ruling on incorporation.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

What the SCOTUS ruling have to do with your gun right? If there is no second amendment equivalent in the NJ constitution, sorry I'm lost.

 

The US constitution was meant to be a linmit on the power of the FEDERAL government. the FF thought that the states should have sovereignity to regulate most things. The 2nd ammendment and the RKBA, while often quoted, really dosent apply, as unlike the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and some others, it has never been "Incorporated" under the provisions of the 14th Ammendment and the Equal protections clause. The upcoming McDonald case, Unlike Heller, which while it affirmed the concept that the 2nd was an INDIVIDUAL right as opposed to a collective one. Heller however was based out of DC, which is federal terriroty and did not affect the States. Once McDonald is won, then the 2nd ammendment will finally be binding upon the individual states. and a state like NJ which does not have an RKBA built into it's constitution will have to change it's laws to reflect that inherent right. Now, that said, dont think the NJ is just going to change over immediately. It will probably take years, and someone with either deep pockets, or a pet attorney to continually sue the state to get things changed.

Illinois has a 2A equivalent in it, and Illinois is like the bastard clone of NJ.

Illinois has a 2A equivalent in it, and Illinois is like the bastard clone of NJ.

 

and that would be an issue for Il residents to take up with their state Supreme Court......which as tlast count was firmly in the Daley/Chicago machine pocket.

There is no second amendment equivalent in the NJ constitution -

 

There was an original 1789 4th amendment of the New Jersey State Bill of Rights that is almost the same as the federal 2nd amendment. Not sure why it's not there now.

There is no second amendment equivalent in the NJ constitution -

 

There was an original 1789 4th amendment of the New Jersey State Bill of Rights that is almost the same as the federal 2nd amendment. Not sure why it's not there now.

No there was not. the ORIGINAL NJ constitution was drafted on July 2 1776. it was changed in the early 1800s, then again in IIRC 1948 There HAS NEVER BEEN an RKBA built into the NJ state Constitution. Drafts of every version from the first are readily available, and the skip over the RKBA completely, while closely mirroring the BoR of the US Constitution in every other aspect.

Illinois has a 2A equivalent in it, and Illinois is like the bastard clone of NJ.

 

and that would be an issue for Il residents to take up with their state Supreme Court......which as tlast count was firmly in the Daley/Chicago machine pocket.

 

And as we can see, other States like NY, CT, and RI ignore the State Constitution. So even when there is a RKBA at the State level, it seems to mean nothing.

From the NJ Constitution of 1947, Article I, Section 1:

 

1. All persons are by nature free and independent, and have certain natural and unalienable rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty, of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and of pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness.

 

You have the right to defend life and liberty. Many liberals will say that means you have the right to call the police.

 

The constitutional issue is "What do we defend with".

 

NJ law says you do not have to retreat from a deadly confrontation.

 

This implies you can use a deadly weapon (which includes swords, crossbows, etc).

 

Like a lot of things in NJ law there is no clear cut answer.

From the NJ Constitution of 1947, Article I, Section 1:

 

1. All persons are by nature free and independent, and have certain natural and unalienable rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty, of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and of pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness.

 

You have the right to defend life and liberty. Many liberals will say that means you have the right to call the police.

 

The constitutional issue is "What do we defend with".

 

NJ law says you do not have to retreat from a deadly confrontation.

 

This implies you can use a deadly weapon (which includes swords, crossbows, etc).

 

Like a lot of things in NJ law there is no clear cut answer.

 

Including Protecting Property

There is no second amendment equivalent in the NJ constitution -

 

There was an original 1789 4th amendment of the New Jersey State Bill of Rights that is almost the same as the federal 2nd amendment. Not sure why it's not there now.

 

http://www.njarchives.org/links/treasures/usconstitution/billofrights.html

Maybe my wording was misleading but the NJ Dept of State posts this and says in part, "On November 20, 1789, NJ became the first state to ratify the Bill of Rights" so it appears the state adopted the then Bill of Rights which included the 4th. It is now our 2nd amendment. Not sure if its too much of a stretch to say that by signing onto those amendments made them recognized by our state.

Maybe my wording was misleading but the NJ Dept of State posts this and says in part, "On November 20, 1789, NJ became the first state to ratify the Bill of Rights"

That's correct - NJ ratified the bill of rights in Congress first. See this wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Unit ... s_Congress and scroll down until you see the two delegates from NJ.

 

so it appears the state adopted the then Bill of Rights which included the 4th. It is now our 2nd amendment. Not sure if its too much of a stretch to say that by signing onto those amendments made them recognized by our state.

You're interpretation is incorrect. The statement that says NJ was the first state to ratify the Bill of Rights refers to NJ's Congressional Delegates and not the State's Constitution.