Ok today at Sarco we were talking and I had mentioned to Eric that I wish he would of put money down on two Finn M91's so that there was still a good one there for me to buy.

 

The guy behind the counter said nope your not allowed to do that, the person who gives him money for the gun has to do the paper work for the gun. So then I said well can't he just buy it, and then I could buy it from him? He said no then it'd be a straw purchase. I said even with doing the COE etc. He said yup.

 

So my question is, when is it no longer a straw purchase. How long must I own a gun before I can sell it!!??

 

Thanks

M

You need a lawyer for this question. This sounds like a case of you should have not said anything, and had your friend give you the money somewhere else, like at your house. You call sarco and say, "im coming in to put a deposit on that finn"

just my thoughts...but again, i am NOT a lawyer, so I dont know the law...

oh no it didn't actually happen that way. I went in today and bought an M44 for myself it's just in chat the whole thing was brought up and I was totally confused.

It is not a straw purchase by definition. A straw purchase is someone buying a firearm for someone who is UNABLE TO LEGALLY PURCHASE ONE THEMSELVES>

 

Me and the guy at Sarco are both armchair lawyers, but I will win in court.

Exactly what I thought too. Thats why I was so confused and I posed the question to him like this.

 

Someone buys a gun, brings it home waits a day decided he doesn't really want it and now wants to sell it can he do it. He said no it'd be illegal. Hmpf!!

ahh, you fixed it.

Exactly what I thought too. Thats why I was so confused and I posed the question to him like this.

 

Someone buys a guy, brings it home waits a day decided he doesn't really want it and now wants to sell it can he do it. He said no it'd be illegal. Hmpf!!

 

My Gawd, NJ's laws are bad enough, we don't need dipshits making up stuff as they go along.

I know I'm waiting for our Vendors and Police officers to chime in. Because this made no sense to me. If you do a COE i don't see how it would be nothing but a legal purchase.

Exactly what I thought too. Thats why I was so confused and I posed the question to him like this.

 

 

 

Someone buys a gun, brings it home waits a day decided he doesn't really want it and now wants to sell it can he do it. He said no it'd be illegal. Hmpf!!

 

Oh I get it, yeah that cant be illegal. Thats fine. Im sorry.

LOL!

It is not a straw purchase by definition. A straw purchase is someone buying a firearm for someone who is UNABLE TO LEGALLY PURCHASE ONE THEMSELVES>

 

 

Thats what I always thought a straw purchase was as well.

 

Something doesn't sound right here.

Question 11a on Form 4473 is "Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form?"

 

If you're buying a firearm for yourself with the full intent to give as a gift, then you are the actual buyer. If you're buying it for your unprohibited friend who is 100% legal to own the firearm, but he's just too busy to go to the gun store and he gave you the money, it is an illegal straw purchase.

 

If you buy a firearm with the express purpose of immediately reselling it to an otherwise legal person, then it is still a straw purchase.

 

If you buy a firearm and decide you don't like it, then sell it to that legal person with a clean record, then that is legal.

 

ETA: I took this from a post on ARFCOM.

 

If you buy a firearm with the express purpose of immediately reselling it to an otherwise legal person, then it is still a straw purchase.

 

If you buy a firearm and decide you don't like it, then sell it to that legal person with a clean record, then that is legal.

 

ETA: I took this from a post on ARFCOM, but I agree with it.

 

What the fack is the difference!!!! So as long as I buy a gun, say " I don't like it anymore!! and then sell it, its legal?

If I'm not mistaken, Matt was going to do all the paperwork in his name...and his friend was just putting money down on it, to hold it...right? Or am I mistaken? I had to read Matts post about 6 times to understand it, so there is a good chance I'm wrong.

If I'm not mistaken, Matt was going to do all the paperwork in his name...and his friend was just putting money down on it, to hold it...right? Or am I mistaken? I had to read Matts post about 6 times to understand it, so there is a good chance I'm wrong.

 

That was one of the situations Chad.

 

I came up with two situations.

 

First my buddy is at a gun shop sees a gun I want calls me and tells me about it. I tell him, put money down on it, I'll give you the money and I'll come in to fill out the paperwork. This is illegal apparently which I guess I could see.

 

Next my buddy buys the gun, does the paper work brings it home. I go to his house, give him money, fill out a COE form. This is illegal too apparently.

 

Last my buddy buys the gun, brings it home, DECLARES he doesn't like it. I show up, give him money, fill out a COE and now apparently its legal.

 

Freaking Retarded!!

Freaking Retarded!!

 

Fweakin Wetawded.

Ok, you both go there together. Your friend put money down on a gun a week ago to hold it. Assuming there was no contractual agreement signed stating your friend is locked into purchasing this gun. He goes in a week later, with you, and says to the clerk I've changed my mind, I no longer wish to purchase this gun. The clerk gives your friend the money back that he put down on it. You then purchase the gun. Possibility?

correct totally legal

The "Don't lie for the Other Guy" campaign states that one can not purchase for a prohibited person. It makes no mention if the other person is legal to own.

 

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As an FFL dealer I would also not be able to do this. The ATF says that we should take an active effort in being able to detect a straw purchase. If I was helping you and you called a friend and talked how you were getting it for him I would not sell you the gun. I would just be paranoid that it could be a setup. Now a days you really dont know how far the anti-gun government in NJ would do. Nowadays business has been good, dont want to ruin a good thing for my members and I.

Absolutely agree Kyle. It's not something that I would of done and it wasn't something that I would of debated with the guy at Sarco or even convinced him to do. It was just something I've never heard of before so I was slightly intrigued.

 

M

several years back my wife picked up several for me - atf deemed it to be a straw purchase - many phone calls + threat of a lawyer to get atf agent to back off - like i said before it is much easier for them to convict an honest person than a hardened criminal - makes their arrest + enforcement records look good to the politicians come budget time -

It sounds to me like the dealer wants to protect himself. In a situation like you described, those same actions could have been carried out by persons attempting a straw sale. In the current anti-gun climate, I don't blame him.

 

The only thing I can suggest is don't do or say anything that could be misinterpreted. It's not worth the debate with the salesman (an argument you won't win, even if you're right).

 

I was at a gun store once with a friend--they wouldn't let either of us look at a rifle because my friend didn't have his FID, though I had mine. Salesman said that because we were together, we both need to present FID's to look at a rifle.