I was just curious if the Kel-Tec PLR16 .223 Long Range Pistol is Jersey legal.

 

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/prod ... s_id/23498

I want to say no. I think it exceeds the weight limit for a pistol. I'm not 100% on that but I have seen that question posted before.

ii. A semi-automatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at

least two of the following:

(1) An ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;

(2) A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor,

forward handgrip, or silencer;

(3) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles the barrel and

that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being

burned;

(4) Manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and/or

(5) A semi-automatic version of an automatic firearm; and

O well, Guess Ill have to wait until I move to the U.S.

What would be the 2nd feature? It says 2 of the following.

What would be the 2nd feature? It says 2 of the following.

 

It's the second feature that pushes it into the prohibited category - so you really can only have one and be legal.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

So the weight alone wouldn't be an issue, right? A Desert Eagle weighs 72oz and is legal.

 

What is the 2nd feature on this gun that woud make it illegal?

What would be the 2nd feature? It says 2 of the following.

 

I bolded the 3 additional features that make this illegal.

...What is the 2nd feature on this gun that woud make it illegal?

 

An ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;

on the de the mag is in the grip

:angry-banghead:

I was just curious if the Kel-Tec PLR16 .223 Long Range Pistol is Jersey legal.

 

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/prod ... s_id/23498

 

ii. A semi-automatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at

least two of the following:

(1) An ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;

(2) A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor,

forward handgrip, or silencer;

(3) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles the barrel and

that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being

burned;

(4) Manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and/or

(5) A semi-automatic version of an automatic firearm; and

 

Is this pistol on the blacklist or a clone of a pistol on the blacklist? If not it is legal and the feature ban list does not apply.

 

Is this pistol on the blacklist or a clone of a pistol on the blacklist? If not it is legal and the feature ban list does not apply.

 

Please, not this again

 

A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be

"substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it

meets the below listed criteria:

 

Is this pistol on the blacklist or a clone of a pistol on the blacklist? If not it is legal and the feature ban list does not apply.

 

Please, not this again

 

A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be

"substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it

meets the below listed criteria:

 

Meh, People need to read the entire thing instead of just picking parts out of that letter. Like I said before that was a letter of clarification on items that were blatant clones of firearms on the blacklist. If they wanted to just ban all semi-automatic rifles with those features then they would have something like the following like Connecticut and put it into Law but that was not their intent (thus the letter on the aforementioned):

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/pub/Chap943.htm#Sec53-202a.htm

 

:angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

 

I think I will refrain from commenting on any of these threads in the future. If people want to be paranoid for no reason and start making up laws that do not exist so be it. I am done.

I agree with JoeJaxx. If not on the list, its OK. The list is for UZI pistols, AK pistols, AR pistols and others on the list --- which will get you in trouble.

 

If you are afraid to venture off the list, just play safe and stick with the standard stuff, ie revolvers, glocks, etc.

 

On a side note...if you think your legal AR and AK rifles, with all the muzzle brakes and pinned stock will not get you arrested or questioned...you better think again. The majority of LE do not know the law and the sight of an AR, AK will get you in a jam. A M1 carbine looks more innocent, like a wooden rifle, and will not get someone attention, but its illegal. Sorry, but that's how the world works.....

 

Is this pistol on the blacklist or a clone of a pistol on the blacklist? If not it is legal and the feature ban list does not apply.

 

Please, not this again

 

A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be

"substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it

meets the below listed criteria:

 

Meh, People need to read the entire thing instead of just picking parts out of that letter. Like I said before that was a letter of clarification on items that were blatant clones of firearms on the blacklist. If they wanted to just ban all semi-automatic rifles with those features then they would have something like the following like Connecticut and put it into Law but that was not their intent (thus the letter on the aforementioned):

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/pub/Chap943.htm#Sec53-202a.htm

 

:angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

 

I think I will refrain from commenting on any of these threads in the future. If people want to be paranoid for no reason and start making up laws that do not exist so be it. I am done.

 

I did read the whole thing, multiple times, but I'm still not seeing what you're seeing.

On a side note...if you think your legal AR and AK rifles, with all the muzzle brakes and pinned stock will not get you arrested or questioned...you better think again. The majority of LE do not know the law and the sight of an AR, AK will get you in a jam. A M1 carbine looks more innocent, like a wooden rifle, and will not get someone attention, but its illegal. Sorry, but that's how the world works.....

 

as in this point its funny.. people say things like "oh if you have a rifle that just LOOKS illegal and you are questioned and they arrest you or something prepare for a lengthy expensive long drawn out court process..." i beg to differ in regards to the expensive part.. i have been really cautious with my builds (my saiga for example) looks pretty evil.. MIGHT draw attention.. MIGHT cause issue.. BUT... at the end of the day.. it is %100 legal.. and if questioned i would not seek council.. i would simply say "the rifle is legal according to NJ law for the following reasons.." i have already had to explain the rifle once or twice at the range.. LOOKING like an AK... firing the standard commy AK ammo... sure can raise some questions.. BUT once finished explaining.. that would be the end of it.. no debate.. no argue.. it is what it is in plain black and while.. it is NOT an AK as named (ak47, ak100, ak74, etc..) and it is NOT substantially identical AS DEFINED BY NJ LAW.. if the powers that be want to push the issue or even go as far as to arrest me.. i would simply shut my mouth.. let them violate my rights.. and then start a SHITSTORM... i would contact the most reliable person i know.. and they would make a MILLION phone calls to EVERYONE i know.. i would represent myself and simply point out why i was wrongfully arrested.. once cleared as the law is PLAINLY BLACK AND WHITE.... i would then possibly seek some type of settlement based on the undue process they placed me through... i KNOW that might SOUND hollywood or something.. but that is exactly what i would do.. i feel like a lawyer is simply going to ignore my innocence and try to bargain based on an unspoken admittance of guilt.. so that to me is a HUGE waste of money and resources.. it is such a SIMPLE no brainer that having legal council is useless.. having a EXPERT to call as a witness would be FAR more valuable.. representing myself as someone familiar with the firearm would be FAR more useful than being represented by some clueless tool in a court of law filled with people who are challenged in the realm of firearms.. the law is clear for a reason..

ONE LAST TIME

 

THE LAW THAT PERTAINS TO EVERYONE:

2C:39-1w."Assault firearm" means:

(1)The following firearms:

Algimec AGM1 type

Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder such as the "Street Sweeper" or "Striker 12"

Armalite AR-180 type

Australian Automatic Arms SAR

Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms

Beretta AR-70 and BM59 semi-automatic firearms

Bushmaster Assault Rifle

Calico M-900 Assault carbine and M-900

CETME G3

Chartered Industries of Singapore SR-88 type

Colt AR-15 and CAR-15 series

Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max 1 and Max 2, AR 100 types

Demro TAC-1 carbine type

Encom MP-9 and MP-45 carbine types

FAMAS MAS223 types

FN-FAL, FN-LAR, or FN-FNC type semi-automatic firearms

Franchi SPAS 12 and LAW 12 shotguns

G3SA type

Galil type Heckler and Koch HK91, HK93, HK94, MP5, PSG-1

Intratec TEC 9 and 22 semi-automatic firearms

M1 carbine type

M14S type

MAC 10, MAC 11, MAC 11-9mm carbine type firearms

PJK M-68 carbine type

Plainfield Machine Company Carbine

Ruger K-Mini-14/5F and Mini-14/5RF

SIG AMT, SIG 550SP, SIG 551SP, SIG PE-57 types

SKS with detachable magazine type

Spectre Auto carbine type

Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR-48 type

Sterling MK-6, MK-7 and SAR types

Steyr A.U.G. semi-automatic firearms

USAS 12 semi-automatic type shotgun

Uzi type semi-automatic firearms

Valmet M62, M71S, M76, or M78 type semi-automatic firearms

Weaver Arm Nighthawk.

 

THE GUIDELINE GIVEN TO LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES:

ASSAULT FIREARMS

Guidelines Regarding the "Substantially Identical" Provision in the State's Assault Firearms Laws

Issued August 1996

 

TO: Director Terrence P. Farley, Division of Criminal Justice

All County Prosecutors

All Law Enforcement Chief Executives

FROM: Attorney General Peter Verniero

DATE: August 19, 1996

SUBJECT: Guidelines Regarding the "Substantially Identical" Provision in the State's Assault

Firearms Laws

 

I. Introduction

In recent weeks there has been a question about the meaning of the term "substantially identical" in New Jersey's assault firearms law. The Legislature addressed this question in the provisions of the Code of Criminal Justice, and despite the clarity of the law, it is appropriate for the Attorney General to provide guidance to the prosecutors in order to ensure that the law is administered uniformly and effectively throughout the State. N.J.S.A. 52:17B-98. I am directing the prosecutors, as chief law enforcement officers of their respective counties, to share this guidance with local police departments, who in turn should provide copies of this memorandum to any member of the public who requests information on assault firearms.

 

II. Guidelines

New Jersey law lists firearms that are prohibited "assault firearms." N.J.S.A. 2C:39-1w.(1). In addition, the law provides that the term "assault firearm" includes, "Any firearm manufactured under any designation which is substantially identical to any of the firearms listed" in the law. N.J.S.A. 2C:39-1w.(2). Thus, a firearm is an assault firearm if it is included on the list of banned firearms or if it is manufactured under a different designation than a firearm on the list but is "substantially identical" to a specific listed firearm.

 

We believe "substantially identical" is clear by its plain meaning. The Criminal Code provides that the statutes in the Code must be read "according to the fair import of their terms." N.J.S.A. 2C:1-2c. The Criminal Code explains that where language may be susceptible to different readings it must be construed to "give fair warning of the nature of the conduct proscribed." N.J.S.A. 2C:1-2a.(4), c. Simply put, the phrase "substantially identical" must be given its plain meaning, one that gives fair warning.

 

The term "substantial" means pertaining to the substance, matter, material or essence of a thing. The term "identical" means exactly the same. Hence, a firearm is substantially identical to another only if it is identical in all material, essential respects. A firearm is not substantially identical to a listed assault firearm unless it is identical except for differences which do not alter the essential nature of the firearm.

 

The following are examples of manufacturer changes that do not alter the essential nature of the firearm: name or designation of the firearm; the color of the firearm; the material used to make the barrel or stock of the firearm; the material used to make a pistol grip; a modification of a pistol grip. This is not an exclusive list.

 

A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be "substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it meets the below listed criteria:

 

A. a semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of the following:

1. a folding or telescoping stock;

2. a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

3. a bayonet mount;

4. a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and

5. a grenade launcher;

 

B. a semi-automatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of the following:

1. an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;

2. a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;

3. a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;

4. manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and

5. a semi-automatic version of an automatic firearm; and,

 

C. a semi-automatic shotgun that has at least 2 of the following:

1. a folding or telescoping stock;

2. a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

3. a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and

4. an ability to accept a detachable magazine.

 

III. Inquiries from Private Citizens

Law enforcement officers should, whenever possible, attempt to be helpful and to respond to inquiries concerning particular firearms. Private citizens should also be encouraged to consult with their own attorneys and, where necessary, referred to the Firearms Unit of the Division of State Police.

 

IV. Purpose and Effect of these Guidelines

In enforcing this law, prosecutors and police should remember that an assault firearms offense requires proof that the defendant knows he or she possesses an assault firearm, e.g., that the defendant knows that the firearm is "substantially identical" to one of the named assault weapons.

 

These guidelines should be followed by all county prosecutors and all law enforcement officers in this State so that the State's assault firearms laws will be uniformly enforced throughout the State.

 

POINTS TO PONDER:

Where is "AK-47" named on the list?

Where is the "PLR16" named on the list?

Where is the "SCAR" named on the list?

Where is the 10/22 Charger" named on the list?

 

YOU DECIDE

 

... If people want to be paranoid for no reason and start making up laws that do not exist so be it. I am done.

+1000

Thus, a firearm is an assault firearm if it is included on the list of banned firearms or if it is manufactured under a different designation than a firearm on the list but is "substantially identical" to a specific listed firearm.

 

A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be "substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it meets the below listed criteria:

 

Thanks Paul. Those two together still to me mean anything So I guess I'll play the paranoid one on this one.

Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms

 

Where is "AK-47" named on the list?

 

just playing devils advocate on this one.. but... i KNOW the Saiga, WASR, etc... are legal because it is NOT named and NOT substantially identical.. but i have always taken "Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms" to mean literally firearms produced in the series... 47 74 100 etc.. but besides that one point i agree %100 with everything else you said.. :clap:

 

one last thing.. when a firearm is NOTHING like anything on the list (take a cx4 storm for example) does that mean you have have a flash hider threaded barrel etc.. dont have any interest in having one for that gun more just curious..

Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms

Where is "AK-47" named on the list?

just playing devils advocate on this one.. but... i KNOW the Saiga, WASR, etc... are legal because it is NOT named and NOT substantially identical.. but i have always taken "Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms" to mean literally firearms produced in the series... 47 74 100 etc.. but besides that one point i agree %100 with everything else you said.. :clap:

IMO, the WASR is on the list as a "Avtomat Kalashnikov type" firearm. That is why it must follow the guideline. Even an AK-74 is legal if it does not have that evilness.

one last thing.. when a firearm is NOTHING like anything on the list (take a cx4 storm for example) does that mean you have have a flash hider threaded barrel etc.. dont have any interest in having one for that gun more just curious..

Sorry. I will say no more on this subject than has been said before.

Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms

Where is "AK-47" named on the list?

just playing devils advocate on this one.. but... i KNOW the Saiga, WASR, etc... are legal because it is NOT named and NOT substantially identical.. but i have always taken "Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms" to mean literally firearms produced in the series... 47 74 100 etc.. but besides that one point i agree %100 with everything else you said.. :clap:

IMO, the WASR is on the list as a "Avtomat Kalashnikov type" firearm. That is why it must follow the guideline. Even an AK-74 is legal if it does not have that evilness.

one last thing.. when a firearm is NOTHING like anything on the list (take a cx4 storm for example) does that mean you have have a flash hider threaded barrel etc.. dont have any interest in having one for that gun more just curious..

Sorry. I will say no more on this subject than has been said before.

 

 

the AK explanation makes perfect sense...

What would be the 2nd feature? It says 2 of the following.

 

I bolded the 3 additional features that make this illegal.

 

 

thanks Chris. I must have been sleeping when I first read your post and looked at the link to the gun. Didn't even pay attention to the fact that the magwell was forward of the grip.