http://www.parallaxtactical.com/store/a ... k-412.html

 

I've been looking at these magazines and just got off the phone with them. They can make one for 15 rounds. They machine a block and pop rivet the block in through a hole in the spine of the magazine. They also add epoxy around the floorplate, i believe.

 

Is pop-riveting a block in suffecient?

Im going to find the sheet of paper and post it on here because its always a question on here. About two years ago a letter was sent out from the State of New Jersey's Attorney Generals office. In this form sent to all holding FFL's it stated that: magazine were to only be made at the manufacturer to the capacity desired. That previous 30 rnd mags could not be pinned by an owner to make it unremovable which used to be the way they allowed it. similar to a plug will hunting. But since this letter was only sent out to FFL's you get tons of misleading information regarding hi capacity mags and what not. I will post the form and you can run from there. Only issue is that now this form has been out the police can charge you for doing something you thought was totally legal.

I dont understand completely. If a business (not original maker of magazine) blocks it out of state and provides a receipt, and it is permenent, is it ok?

Again, does a pop rivet constitute permenent?

Welcome to the mystery of NJ's Firearms Laws. The legislature seems unable to write a firearms law that can be understood and need "Attorney General's Opinions".

Based on the letter above I would say if it's permanently altered then you're good to go. What the hell "permanently altered" means exactly is beyond me, but i would say if it is extremely difficult to convert them back to more than 15 rounds where you basically need to destroy the mag, that would be pretty permanent. If nothing else you could epoxy the floorplates in place after you get them so you would need to remove the entire bottom of the mag to get it apart?

I preface the following with IN MY OPINION. This is not a legal opinion and if you use it in court, that's up to you.

 

To me, permanently altered means "not easily reversible". I personally define a pop rivet as easily reversible. I can drill out a pop rivet in 30 seconds flat.

 

Permanently altered, for me, means, welded, or cut down, or modified and epoxied. Methods which would require a large investment of time and effort to reverse.

glad you found the form.. haha

Methods which would require a large investment of time and effort to reverse.

 

Even a pin and epoxy are short work with a drill press. BUT that's the whole problem, with the right tools anything short of a destroyed or welded mag can be "undone".

Im going to find the sheet of paper and post it on here because its always a question on here. About two years ago a letter was sent out from the State of New Jersey's Attorney Generals office. In this form sent to all holding FFL's it stated that: magazine were to only be made at the manufacturer to the capacity desired. That previous 30 rnd mags could not be pinned by an owner to make it unremovable which used to be the way they allowed it. similar to a plug will hunting. But since this letter was only sent out to FFL's you get tons of misleading information regarding hi capacity mags and what not. I will post the form and you can run from there. Only issue is that now this form has been out the police can charge you for doing something you thought was totally legal.

I know this is an oldie, but bumping since the letter seems to not be able to load anymore. Can it be found somewhere else?

 

Generally 10 round mags are easy to find, I guess because CA is a big enough world economy on its own to justify it. That's the no-brainier solution I suppose... And the one I've gone with Except that we can have 15 round mags and the extra five is good at the range. Even NJ gun stores sell product that seems questionable to me having read two njsp documents and about fifty threads...

I recently contacted the NJSP about this issue and have an email stating the pop rivet only would not be considered permanent "enough".

This is the problem with the stupid state of New Germany, they pass these ridiculous laws that the average person does not fully understand and may be tripped up by them.  My FFL routinely riveted mags and had permission from the state police until about two years ago to do this.  At that point they requested to be able to pin magazines that customers would bring in when the state was talking about screwing us to 10 rounds yet again.  The state police agreed to let them do that but told them they would no longer allow the rivet but would require the base pads be epoxied - they did tell them they would not have an issue with magazines that they had already pinned in this manner (grandfathering?). 

 

Now here is where this starts to get crazy.  They had been fine with Glock 17 round mags that were pinned with a rivet but now require epoxy.  Glock recently came out with 15 round magazines for Glock 17/34 guns.  They look just like the 17 round mags except the two inspection holes for round 16 and 17 are no longer there.  If you take the basepad off you find a small plastic block with a Glock part number that keeps the follower from allowing more than 15 rounds - no different than what an FFL might install.  The user can easily remove this part and now the magazine will hold 17 rounds.  So, how can this 15 round magazine from Glock be legal yet one that is far more secure with a rivet that prevents removal not be legal.  STUPID NJ!!!!

This is the same for the S&W mags. When I crossed the Delaware for the last time, I wanted all standard capacity mags. All I needed was to cut the extra spring material off and I was at 17, just without the holes.

 they did tell them they would not have an issue with magazines that they had already pinned in this manner (grandfathering?). 

 

I would ask for a letter

 

Now here is where this starts to get crazy.  They had been fine with Glock 17 round mags that were pinned with a rivet but now require epoxy.  Glock recently came out with 15 round magazines for Glock 17/34 guns.  They look just like the 17 round mags except the two inspection holes for round 16 and 17 are no longer there.  If you take the basepad off you find a small plastic block with a Glock part number that keeps the follower from allowing more than 15 rounds - no different than what an FFL might install.  The user can easily remove this part and now the magazine will hold 17 rounds.  So, how can this 15 round magazine from Glock be legal yet one that is far more secure with a rivet that prevents removal not be legal.  STUPID NJ!!!!

 

Its stupid but when it comes to factory unmodified mags NJ resorts to what it was intended to hold not what it can hold.

 

This is why I dont like aftermarket mag mods, too much ambiguity. State police say a mod is good at some point in time then the rules change, letters from SP addressing mods, dates involved with letters, dates mods done (receipts?),  grandfathering? In NJ?...I think when it comes down to someone getting fkd about a questionable mag it wont be the SP who make the decision but a prosecuter who is pushing a directive from the AG who in turn is being guided by the sitting gov. Factory intended mags for me, thats always been part of my decision when getting another gun. That, and making sure there is a 10 rd option available but thats another story.

Steve, what did NJSP say is needed do to mod a mag ? Is a block and epoxy enough ?

Basically a mag with a rivet alone is not permanent enough.

A Mag with a rivet along with a block that is epoxied would be permanent.

All these laws are stupid and serve no purpose other than to allow political hacks to preach to their followers that they did "something" even if that something does nothing.  The fact that a 15 round Glock factory mag is more acceptable than a rivited but not epoxied 17 round mag limited to 15 rounds is a prime example of the stupidity.  Or take the case that you could be in big trouble for having that 17 round Glock mag but it is perfectly legal to have a .40cal 15 round Glock mag which is really quite reliable at feeding 17 rounds of 9mm ammo.  Stupid New Germany laws!!!

Or take the case that you could be in big trouble for having that 17 round Glock mag but it is perfectly legal to have a .40cal 15 round Glock mag which is really quite reliable at feeding 17 rounds of 9mm ammo. Stupid New Germany laws!!!

Or the case of bringing home +2 extensions for your 10 round Glock 26 mags, while also possessing 15 round Glock 19 mags that the extensions fit just fine.