I would start with backstory, but the letter I sent out today explains the whole thing:

 

August 5, 2010

 

Chief Gary F. Giardina

Clifton Police Department

900 Clifton Ave.

Clifton, NJ 07013

 

RE: Your Case No.: XXXXX

 

 

Dear Chief Giardina:

 

I am writing to you regarding my New Jersey Firearm Purchaser Identification (NJ FID) application. On or about May 20, 2010, I submitted my application for an NJ FID, my references have responded to your questionnaire and my fingerprints were taken on June 11, 2010. I noticed the application paper that is distributed by your Department states that applicants should not inquire as to the status of their application until 90 days after submission. On August 3, 2010 (approximately 74 days after submission), I came into the Department and asked a member of your staff about the status of my application. I was absolutely shocked to be met with a curt statement that a decision on my application would not be made for several more months. No explanation, no apology. This potentially forces me to wait 6 months or more for an NJ FID.

 

I feel that forcing one of your citizens to wait months to exercise their individual, U.S. Constitutional and NJ statutory right is a bit excessive. I understand that the resources at your Department are under constant strain. However, in this day of NICS combined with the fact that I and my references have done everything in our power to make the investigation as easy as possible, I don

You can't make up your own rules by stating that they should issue you a FPID and you would give it back if you are found to be a prohibited person.

 

A simple phone call to the NJSP Firearms Unit explaining what you have been told will do wonders. If not, LAWYER UP. :hand:

VERY well-written correspondance. Bravo :clap:

I'm behind you 100%. You did the right thing, and I am glad you did so. Stick to your guns, no pun intended, and don't give up. You are right, they are wrong. It's time they stopped walking all over law abiding citizens.

 

It's 2010. With the NICS system in place, the entire idea of an FID card, Pistol Permit, etc. is simply antiquated. The only reason it is even around is to hinder the ability of law abiding citizens to exercise their civil rights. Simple as that. This police department has no good reason to make you wait MONTHS for an FID. A 2 minute phone call to NICS will tell them if you are a prohibited person or not. Hang in there man.

 

EDIT: I agree, you can't make up your own rules about giving the guns up and stuff. Go straight to NJSP and then if still no FID go to a lawyer.

So, what do you think the response will be?

]

probably absolutely nothing. they'll probably hang onto the FID until you take it up a notch (file suit) then you'll get a call to pick it up.

I live in Belmar and turned everything in 36 days ago. At 34 days I called the detective, left voicemail and he didnt call back. Drop by today. He isnt there and the guy I talked to said its in the states hands and they don't know anything. I said well it's been over 30 days and the NJ law states 30 days for residents and 45 days for non residents. He seemed surprised and said he didn't know about that law. I whipped put my printouts from the internet and showed him. He said he would leave a message for the detective and that he is back in tomm. (friday). I got his name as well and left. If I don't hear anything by Monday I will be going in on tuesday (Im off work) and if I don't like what I hear I am either going to the police chief and or calling the state police firearms investigations unit.

 

I have money set aside and I swear I am gonna spend it on a new toy soon. I want this ID card and permit yesterday!

Like pk90 stated, you can't make up your own rules. And the 30 day limit has already been ruled out via the NJ supreme courts. Its a guideline, not a hard deadline, especially since they have to process everything through the state police. Every township is completely different, some day a week, some take 6 months plus. Also, NICS is NJ's own system that is run by the State Police, not the national system. Yes its redundant, but it has no bearing on your permits.

 

Also, since NJ doesn't have the 2a in its state constitution, the line that says

I feel that forcing one of your citizens to wait months to exercise their individual, U.S. Constitutional and NJ statutory right is a bit excessive.

is only half right. Its now a constitutional right, although NJ still hasn't recognized the decision, but its not a statutory right. Its illegal to own any firearms UNLESS you exempt yourself by obtaining the FID. So until you go through the hoops of getting one, which is taking alot longer because alot more are applying for FID's and permits and they haven't hired more people to pick up the slack.

 

You'll get a quicker response if you call the State Police and just tell them what you were told. The local offices give and recieve the paperwork, do the fingerprints and then the chief signs. Everything else is done by the state police. If they already processed it, they'll get on the Chief's case to get it done. Bitching to the chief might just make him put off signing it some more. Appointed officials could care less about taxpayers as long as the mayor is happy.

After having a FID and MANY PP applications done in Lacey. {very nice town and Firearm friendly, should not have left] I moved to a DEM town of Berkeley!!!!My 2nd go around with PPs is already 3+months old and they tell me another few weeks! E-mail sent to the DEM mayor and to my Republican Senator on 8-4. See if I get any help. As of today referrals did NOT get their letters.

Suggesting they give you a FID while they continue with there investigation will NEVER EVER Work. That is 100% completely the wrong approach. The rest of the letter was great until you suggested that.

 

A simple phone call to the NJSP Firearms Unit explaining what you have been told will do wonders. If not, LAWYER UP. :hand:

 

+1 http://www.njsp.org/divorg/invest/firea ... -unit.html

I live in Belmar and turned everything in 36 days ago. At 34 days I called the detective, left voicemail and he didnt call back. Drop by today. He isnt there and the guy I talked to said its in the states hands and they don't know anything. I said well it's been over 30 days and the NJ law states 30 days for residents and 45 days for non residents. He seemed surprised and said he didn't know about that law. I whipped put my printouts from the internet and showed him. He said he would leave a message for the detective and that he is back in tomm. (friday). I got his name as well and left. If I don't hear anything by Monday I will be going in on tuesday (Im off work) and if I don't like what I hear I am either going to the police chief and or calling the state police firearms investigations unit.

 

I have money set aside and I swear I am gonna spend it on a new toy soon. I want this ID card and permit yesterday!

 

 

went through the same thing in Franklin back in May. I called Evan Nappens firm when I hadnt received after 5 weeks. I was advised that there is case law further "defining" the 30/45 day requirement which basically says the time begins after the PD receives all of the required paper work and background checks. Nappen also advised he wouldnt get involved until after 90 days, and said NOT to contact the PD via letter, phone, or face to face.

Listen to PK90.

He knows what he is talking about.

Call NJSP firearms div, tell them whats going on, cheifs name, phone number, etc. They will be happy to call him and enforce the law...

The letter was going pretty good until you added this part:

 

I would like to propose a solution to our situation that is in compliance with NJ statutes. From the lack of a denial, I infer that your Department has not found anything disqualifying me from obtaining an FID. Thus, your Department should issue one to me. If, in the coming several months of ongoing investigation, I am found to be disqualified, and I agree that I am disqualified, I will surrender my FID and properly dispose of any and all firearms purchased with the FID.

 

So basically, what you are suggesting is that everyone be giving a FID card upfront and while you have that and buy all the long guns and ammo you want, if they find something worth denying you the FID, you will give it back? Are you joking? I think by writing this, you will fail on the grounds of having a mental disorder. What were you thinking? That's like suggesting everyone be giving a drivers license before taking the driving test, and if they fail the driving test, they can just turn in their driver's license. Make no sense at all. With that kind of suggestion, why bother even having any background check.

The letter was going pretty good until you added this part:

 

I would like to propose a solution to our situation that is in compliance with NJ statutes. From the lack of a denial, I infer that your Department has not found anything disqualifying me from obtaining an FID. Thus, your Department should issue one to me. If, in the coming several months of ongoing investigation, I am found to be disqualified, and I agree that I am disqualified, I will surrender my FID and properly dispose of any and all firearms purchased with the FID.

 

So basically, what you are suggesting is that everyone be giving a FID card upfront and while you have that and buy all the long guns and ammo you want, if they find something worth denying you the FID, you will give it back? Are you joking? I think by writing this, you will fail on the grounds of having a mental disorder. What were you thinking? That's like suggesting everyone be giving a drivers license before taking the driving test, and if they fail the driving test, they can just turn in their driver's license. Make no sense at all. With that kind of suggestion, why bother even having any background check.

 

 

Heh, yes I would agree with that.

The letter was going pretty good until you added this part:

 

I would like to propose a solution to our situation that is in compliance with NJ statutes. From the lack of a denial, I infer that your Department has not found anything disqualifying me from obtaining an FID. Thus, your Department should issue one to me. If, in the coming several months of ongoing investigation, I am found to be disqualified, and I agree that I am disqualified, I will surrender my FID and properly dispose of any and all firearms purchased with the FID.

 

So basically, what you are suggesting is that everyone be giving a FID card upfront and while you have that and buy all the long guns and ammo you want, if they find something worth denying you the FID, you will give it back? Are you joking? I think by writing this, you will fail on the grounds of having a mental disorder. What were you thinking? That's like suggesting everyone be giving a drivers license before taking the driving test, and if they fail the driving test, they can just turn in their driver's license. Make no sense at all. With that kind of suggestion, why bother even having any background check.

 

 

Heh, yes I would agree with that.

 

+3

I think you might have gone about this the wrong way. I also applied in Clifton for an FPID in June. They actually said to wait 6 months before contacting them. But instead of waiting 74 days and then complaining, I just waited until I knew all my refs were in, and had been fingerprinted. Then I sent a very nice email to the woman who originally gave me the info on applying, just asking to make sure there was nothing on my end holding things up. She was extremely helpful, actually looked up my app, gave me all the info. Turns out one of my refs' forms must have gotten lost, so she said she would look out for it and resend if it didn't arrive soon.

 

If it does come to being a little 'persuasive', I think I will at least have someone there who I have dealt with more than once in a cordial manner, and may be willing to help if she can.

 

Also, I assume you submitted your app to Det. Cusack. Why not just show up one morning at 6:58 AM, and wait for him to get there at 7? He may also blow you off, but at least you will have spoken to someone official involved in the process, which can only help if you do decide to take any real action.

lol... im sure they will get a laugh outta the last part of that letter

Both the detective (Cusack) and the assistant (Kathy) were very nice and helpful. I'm not doubting you, but I wonder if you had said or done something that rubbed them the wrong way.

After having a FID and MANY PP applications done in Lacey. {very nice town and Firearm friendly, should not have left] I moved to a DEM town of Berkeley!!!!My 2nd go around with PPs is already 3+months old and they tell me another few weeks! E-mail sent to the DEM mayor and to my Republican Senator on 8-4. See if I get any help. As of today referrals did NOT get their letters.

 

I think I have a copy of a reference letter from Berkeley. I will dig it out on Monday and see if we can edit it and have your references send them in before the city sends them to them.

Both the detective (Cusack) and the assistant (Kathy) were very nice and helpful. I'm not doubting you, but I wonder if you had said or done something that rubbed them the wrong way.

 

And what if he did? So what? So what if he walked into the PD to apply for his permit wearing a sandwich sign that says "DETECTIVE CUSACK IS A LOSER" in giant red letters? You have a fundamental right to keep and bear arms, that can only be denied after you have been convicted of certain crimes. It doesn't matter if you rubbed some douche bag Joisey detective the wrong way. If he did "rub him the wrong way" then Officer Butthurt needs to grow a set, get the fuck over it, see if this guy's a felon/psycho and if not, hand him his permit.

lol... im sure they will get a laugh outta the last part of that letter

 

 

Ya think......??

And what if he did? So what? So what if he walked into the PD to apply for his permit wearing a sandwich sign that says "DETECTIVE CUSACK IS A LOSER" in giant red letters? You have a fundamental right to keep and bear arms, that can only be denied after you have been convicted of certain crimes...

How about some respect or courtesy? If I was providing a service and someone is being a dick and acting like he's god's gift to firearms then I'd smile, remain courteous throughout the process, then put that app right in the bottom of the pile. "F-him. Who does he think he is?" I really think people respond better to kindness...but hey, that's just me...

And what if he did? So what? So what if he walked into the PD to apply for his permit wearing a sandwich sign that says "DETECTIVE CUSACK IS A LOSER" in giant red letters? You have a fundamental right to keep and bear arms, that can only be denied after you have been convicted of certain crimes...

How about some respect or courtesy? If I was providing a service and someone is being a dick and acting like he's god's gift to firearms then I'd smile, remain courteous throughout the process, then put that app right in the bottom of the pile. "F-him. Who does he think he is?" I really think people respond better to kindness...but hey, that's just me...

 

A service? The detective isn't doing any "service" to anyone. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Allowing me to exercise my right isn't a service. Giving me my permit isn't a service. He is mandated by state law to issue the permit in 30 days. He is bound by the constitution of the United States to not infringe on my right to keep and bear arms. If he can't show that I'm a felon, psycho, drug addict, then he cannot infringe upon my right.

 

It's not about thinking I'm "god's gift to firearms" I'd react the same exact way if someone told me my voter registration was going to wait 6 months, or that my "free speech permit" was gonna take 6 months. Rights are RIGHTS. Not privileges. If it does not bother you that a local official can delay/deny/infringe on your constitutionally protected RIGHTS because you "rubbed him the wrong way" then you need to go back to 8th grade civics class and learn what it means to be an American, and what sort of RIGHTS we have. Not what privileges we should ask nicely for.

 

As for your disregard to the United States Constitution and biased methods to deny people their rights, I'm glad you are not an official acting under color of law. Remember, elected officials and law enforcement take an oath to uphold the United States Constitution. I'm sorry you have no idea what that means.

 

From the International Association of Chiefs of Police:

 

On my honor,

I will never betray my badge,

my integrity, my character,

or the public trust.

I will always have

the courage to hold myself

and others accountable for our actions.

I will always uphold the constitution

my community, and the agency I serve.

And what if he did? So what? So what if he walked into the PD to apply for his permit wearing a sandwich sign that says "DETECTIVE CUSACK IS A LOSER" in giant red letters? You have a fundamental right to keep and bear arms, that can only be denied after you have been convicted of certain crimes...

How about some respect or courtesy? If I was providing a service and someone is being a dick and acting like he's god's gift to firearms then I'd smile, remain courteous throughout the process, then put that app right in the bottom of the pile. "F-him. Who does he think he is?" I really think people respond better to kindness...but hey, that's just me...

 

Dick or not, due process and equal protection of law applies to everyone. So by dropping their app to the bottom of the pile, you would be violating the applicant's rights. I see no difference between this hypothetical retaliatory action and that of self-aggrandizing bureaucrats who delay processing just because they think ordinary people should not be allowed to own or carry weapons.

And what if he did? So what? So what if he walked into the PD to apply for his permit wearing a sandwich sign that says "DETECTIVE CUSACK IS A LOSER" in giant red letters? You have a fundamental right to keep and bear arms, that can only be denied after you have been convicted of certain crimes...

How about some respect or courtesy? If I was providing a service and someone is being a dick and acting like he's god's gift to firearms then I'd smile, remain courteous throughout the process, then put that app right in the bottom of the pile. "F-him. Who does he think he is?" I really think people respond better to kindness...but hey, that's just me...

 

Dick or not, due process and equal protection of law applies to everyone. So by dropping their app to the bottom of the pile, you would be violating the applicant's rights. I see no difference between this hypothetical retaliatory action and that of self-aggrandizing bureaucrats who delay processing just because they think ordinary people should not be allowed to own or carry weapons.

 

Thank you. Well said.

 

Tommy3rd I am sorry if I came off as harsh to you. It just pisses me off because like uncle said in a more polite manner, exercising your rights has nothing to do with being on a bureaucrats a good side. There is a big difference between Rights and Privileges and it makes me very angry when people do not understand the difference.

Tommy3rd I am sorry if I came off as harsh to you. It just pisses me off because like uncle said in a more polite manner, exercising your rights has nothing to do with being on a bureaucrats a good side. There is a big difference between Rights and Privileges and it makes me very angry when people do not understand the difference.

I stil think that understanding the difference between right and privilege won't make a difference. Human behavior and human nature will do its thing. There could have been several different employees there trained to do the same thing and act the same way, but even if you act like an ass to all of them, you will get a different response from every single one.

If everyone mails the exact letter to the different chiefs complaining about their FID, you'll get a million different excuses, answers and results even though they probably all know the oath you posted from the International Association of Chiefs of Police. My point is these people are just doing their jobs. Will it really kill you (3rd party) to be nice once in a while?

I'm pretty sure the gal's name I dealt with was named Cassie (althought it may have been Kathy). She was the only person I've dealt with and submitted my application to her, not Det. Cusack. I know for fact that I didn't "rub anyone the wrong way," we were very cordial with each other and I was always respectful and friendly. When I came back to check on my application, Cassie didn't even come to the window and I heard her say something to the order of "it's clearly on the papers, he's asking too soon."

 

The dark-haired lady (who is not at all friendly, not matter how nice I am to her) just said there won't be a decision for several more months.

 

I am also of the opinion that it "shouldn't" matter if I'm rude or not, but I've worked my fair share of customer service jobs to know that these people are really the ones that get things done and have the capacity to throw a wrench into the works.

 

I'll wait a week, put a call to the NJSP Firearms Unit (thanks for the advice, PK90), then think about the next step if no results from that. :?

When she said there won't be ..."decision for several more months".... after you already waited over 2 months - that is JUST 100% UNACCEPTABLE!!!!!!!!!! Who they hell do they think they are over there. That is total BS!!!!

Im at about day 38 here in Belmar. Nobody seems to be able to nail down this 30 day rule in stone. Is there any way we can get an answer. I copied and pasted this from one of NJ websites

 

f. Granting of permit or identification card; fee; term; renewal; revocation. The application for the permit to purchase a handgun together with a fee of $2.00, or the application for the firearms purchaser identification card together with a fee of $5.00, shall be delivered or forwarded to the licensing authority who shall investigate the same and, unless good cause for the denial thereof appears, shall grant the permit or the identification card, or both, if application has been made therefor, within 30 days from the date of receipt of the application for residents of this State and within 45 days for nonresident applicants.

 

That seems pretty cut and dry to me. 30 days from the day you turn it in. I am not a lawyer but it's pretty clear.

 

I think the problem is there is nothing we can do to them to hold them liable when they don't approve or deny within 30 days. If we didn't do something they wanted in 30 days they could fine us, they can revoke our driving privledges, they could imprison us but we have ZERO RECOURSE. I think they know that and that is why they do whatever the hell they want.

I think the problem is there is nothing we can do to them to hold them liable when they don't approve or deny within 30 days. If we didn't do something they wanted in 30 days they could fine us, they can revoke our driving privledges, they could imprison us but we have ZERO RECOURSE. I think they know that and that is why they do whatever the hell they want.

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