Anybody know why NJ has never had RKABA in it's State Constitution?

 

Was NJ a Troy stronghold or something?

 

How far back can you trace this States f*ed up thinking? Is there some landmark lawsuit or something?

Anybody know why NJ has never had RKABA in it's State Constitution?

 

Was NJ a Troy stronghold or something?

 

How far back can you trace this States f*ed up thinking? Is there some landmark lawsuit or something?

 

New Jersey (like downstate New York) remained a Tory stronghold. It was the British Army and Hessian foraging parties that engaged in enough looting and mayhem that eventually turned the populace against them.

As a matter of fact, General Washington had no use for NJ Militia. They were few and didn't help much until after the Battles of Trenton and Princeton, when the tide of public opinion started to sway in our favor. Later on, during the Winter of 1777 the NJ militia was useful as they harassed the British Army with sneak attacks and did everything they could to deprive their horses of hay. Horses were needed to carry all the heavy gear.

 

If you are interested in this history (and you see how much of it happened right under our feet here in NJ), check out these three books (in my order of favorites):

1) Washington's Crossing by David Fischer

http://www.amazon.com/Washingtons-Cross ... 862&sr=8-1

2) 1776 by David McCullough

http://www.amazon.com/1776-David-McCull ... t_ep_dpi_1

3) Almost A Miracle: The American Victory in The War of Independence by John Ferling

http://www.amazon.com/Almost-Miracle-Am ... 976&sr=1-1

pardon my ignorance, but what is "RKABA"?

pardon my ignorance, but what is "RKABA"?

 

The Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

DUH!!!! that's what I'm here for Chris, education...

I went and shot the Mossy yesterday, btw. worked like a charm... I just gotta get the pumping action right (my fault, not the gun) thanks again!

Glad you like it. I'm sure that recoil absorbing stock is your friend.

oh it is! I tried Glenn's 870 with just the wood stock and it kicked a lot more. My shoulder and arms still hurt - I'm a noob.

 

(we've hijacked this nice History thread, btw, but once someone adds something "on topic" we'll get right on back)

If you look at the original draft of Nj's Constitution (Enacted in 2 July 1776) you'll find that every other provision of the eventual Bill of Rights Is enumerated. Frankly My opinion was that the RKBA was such a fundamental concept, that they didnt feel it was necessary to put it on paper.... The idea that the country, and the state would stray SO far from what the founders believed wasnt even on the horizon for them.

Ben Franklin's son William was Governor from 1763 to 1776. He was arrested by the NJ Congress and imprisoned until early 1780s. He then moved to England and died there in 1813 or so.

 

He was a steadfast loyalist, and this was the cause of split between father and son. They never spoke from 1776 until Ben's death in the mid 1780s.

 

He had no hand in the NJ constitution, no loyalist (Tory) did. The problem with NJ was one that still plagues the state.... ambivalence of it's powerful citizens toward the Revolution and evolving into a free state. They, the majority of the wealthy, powerful NJ citizens, just did not feel the need, life was good for them. In 1776, the New Jersey delegates to the Continental Congress were holding out against Independence. When news of this reached the NJ citizens, the soon elected Richard Stockton (Stockton College) and Dr. Witherspoon (first presiddent of the College of NJ) to replace two of the five New Jersey delegates. They were sent with instructions to vote for Independence. Despite clear instruction, Stockton wished to hear arguments on both sides of the issue. Once he was satisfied, the New Jersey delegates voted for Independence.

If you look at the original draft of Nj's Constitution (Enacted in 2 July 1776) you'll find that every other provision of the eventual Bill of Rights Is enumerated. Frankly My opinion was that the RKBA was such a fundamental concept, that they didnt feel it was necessary to put it on paper.... The idea that the country, and the state would stray SO far from what the founders believed wasnt even on the horizon for them.

 

 

The transcripts from the NJ Constitutional Convention of 1947 supports this:

 

http://www.njstatelib.org/NJ_Informatio ... 1n305.html

 

STATE OF NEW JERSEY CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION OF 1947

Wednesday, August 13, 1947

tion. I, as chairman of the committee, was specifically delegated by my committee to ask the Committee on Rights and Privileges if they were going to put the so-called anti-discrimination clause in the Rights and Privileges Proposal. Upon being told that they were and had done so, our committee felt that it was wrong to have it in our Proposal.

 

It is my personal opinion - although, again, I'm not a lawyer - it seems to me that if the anti-discrimination clause were put in this militia section, that unless it was put in every other section in the Constitution that mentions a name or person or a kind of person, then automatically you must say by inference that where it is mentioned twice and not mentioned in the other places discrimination might be permitted where it was left out. It seems to me that it's stronger being mentioned once, to be all-inclusive, than to be mentioned twice.

 

FIRST VICE-PRESIDENT: Any other comments? Judge Stanger.

 

MR. FRANCIS A. STANGER, JR.: Mr. Chairman, may I address a question to Senator Van Alstyne, chairman of the committee that prepared this Proposal?

 

FIRST VICE-CHAIRMAN: Senator Van Alstyne will submit.

 

MR. STANGER: Senator, do you consider that the anti-discrimination clause as to civil rights will cover this provision as to militia, the thought being that civil rights include military rights?

 

MR. VAN ALSTYNE: Judge Stanger, that point was raised in committee and I can tell you that the committe unanimously felt - there are a number of lawyers on our committee - that the right to bear arms was a civil right. That is very definitely one of the rights of citizens. We therefore did fully cover the situation.

 

FIRST VICE-PRESIDENT: Any other comments?

 

MR. VAN ALSTYNE: I would like Colonel Walton to talk on this subject, please.

 

MR. WALTON: Mr. Chairman and fellow delegates: I can only second what Chairman Van Alstyne has already said. The matter was thoroughly gone into by the members of the committee, and we discussed it from all angles. It was felt by your committee that the inclusion of this phrase should be in the Bill of Rights rather than in the militia clause. We felt that should we put it in the militia clause, then it might be thought advisable that it should be included throughout the entire Constitution - for example, in the section dealing with civil officers. Accordingly, while the committee was quite sympathetic with the intent of the proponents of this provision, they nevertheless felt it should not be included under the militia section.

 

MR. CAVICCHIA: Mr. President.

New Jersey (like downstate New York) remained a Tory stronghold. It was the British Army and Hessian foraging parties that engaged in enough looting and mayhem that eventually turned the populace against them.

As a matter of fact, General Washington had no use for NJ Militia. They were few and didn't help much until after the Battles of Trenton and Princeton, when the tide of public opinion started to sway in our favor.

 

The problem with NJ was one that still plagues the state.... ambivalence of it's powerful citizens toward the Revolution and evolving into a free state. They, the majority of the wealthy, powerful NJ citizens, just did not feel the need, life was good for them. In 1776, the New Jersey delegates to the Continental Congress were holding out against Independence. When news of this reached the NJ citizens, the soon elected Richard Stockton (Stockton College) and Dr. Witherspoon (first presiddent of the College of NJ) to replace two of the five New Jersey delegates. They were sent with instructions to vote for Independence. Despite clear instruction, Stockton wished to hear arguments on both sides of the issue. Once he was satisfied, the New Jersey delegates voted for Independence.

 

*sigh*

 

I always had a feeling NJ's suckiness could be traced back that far..........