Anybody have any experience with these? I've had minimal trigger time with the Ciener unit, and it worked fine. That was some time ago and I was wondering if something better has come along.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

Anybody have any experience with these? I've had minimal trigger time with the Ciener unit, and it worked fine. That was some time ago and I was wondering if something better has come along.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

Bob- I think the major issue is really .223(22LR) bore diameter vs .224 (5.56 NATO/223 Rem). That's the thing that has stopped me.

how much are the conversions? considering you can pick up another dedicated "ar" style 22 rifle for $300 and some change (like a used 15-22) have you considered that option? just a suggestion..

I have a ciener kit and have had no issues with it, with at least 500 rounds through the systems. Also Black Dog Machine makes 15rd mags for the ciener kit.

Bob- I think the major issue is really .223(22LR) bore diameter vs .224 (5.56 NATO/223 Rem). That's the thing that has stopped me.

 

 

It seems these conversion kits are like bumble bees. According to the specs, they shouldn't be able to fly, but they do. I've been doing some reading since I posted this and it seems these kits not only work, but are more than just plinking accurate. I doubt the .001" makes much difference, but the long jump to the rifling and the twist rate being wildly different than guns chambered specifically for .22 LR, would lead one to think this wouldn't "fly", but apparently they do.

 

A dedicated gun or a dedicated upper are out because the idea is to practice, inexpensively, with your SHTF arm. By using just a kit, the optics/iron sights and trigger remain the same. Plus, it was my friend that ask about these, so he is trying to avoid buying another suppressor QR adapter. It would simply allow him to shoot .22's through his existing battle rifle. Makes sense - now he's got me thinking.

 

These kits are appx $160 vs. what an upper or dedicated rimfire would cost - you could amortize the cost of the kit in a very short while, just on the ammo savings.

 

Ciener seems to have been around the longest, and while there is tons of bad press about Ciener himself, not so much for the product. So, if it comes down to the Ciener kit, it would probably be prudent to purchase it from Midway or Brownells. As was pointed out, there are less expensive aftermarket mags available for the Ciener unit also.

 

Still looking for more input.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

It's my understanding that the Spike's and CMMG kits are based on the Ciener design and are all basically the same... so there's really no reason to deal with Ciener.

 

The biggest problem with all the conversions is that they require a bit of fine tuning to work just right. The problem I've run into with my Spike's .22 (it's a dedicated .22 gun, but the bolt is the same as the conversion kits) is rounds getting twisted up between the bolt and the charging handle. Seems to happen at least once every few mags. But I haven't spent very much time fine tuning it. I've seen a CMMG conversion do the same thing in someone else's gun. They're fun for what they are.

 

One thing to note when using these things as a training aid - The bolt catch/release doesn't work. CMMG just came out with a part that sits in the upper portion of the lower that re-enables usage of the bolt release.

It seems these conversion kits are like bumble bees. According to the specs, they shouldn't be able to fly, but they do. I've been doing some reading since I posted this and it seems these kits not only work, but are more than just plinking accurate. I doubt the .001" makes much difference, but the long jump to the rifling and the twist rate being wildly different than guns chambered specifically for .22 LR, would lead one to think this wouldn't "fly", but apparently they do.

 

A dedicated gun or a dedicated upper are out because the idea is to practice, inexpensively, with your SHTF arm. By using just a kit, the optics/iron sights and trigger remain the same. Plus, it was my friend that ask about these, so he is trying to avoid buying another suppressor QR adapter. It would simply allow him to shoot .22's through his existing battle rifle. Makes sense - now he's got me thinking.

 

These kits are appx $160 vs. what an upper or dedicated rimfire would cost - you could amortize the cost of the kit in a very short while, just on the ammo savings.

 

Ciener seems to have been around the longest, and while there is tons of bad press about Ciener himself, not so much for the product. So, if it comes down to the Ciener kit, it would probably be prudent to purchase it from Midway or Brownells. As was pointed out, there are less expensive aftermarket mags available for the Ciener unit also.

 

Still looking for more input.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

 

wouldn't the changing of the round make the irons and any optics not the same? like I get it.. same gun.. but with 22 VS whatever 223 round is being shot.. I would think that the difference would be enough to make the sighting different.. but could be totally wrong..

wouldn't the changing of the round make the irons and any optics not the same? like I get it.. same gun.. but with 22 VS whatever 223 round is being shot.. I would think that the difference would be enough to make the sighting different.. but could be totally wrong..

 

Dependent on where you are sighted for 5.56, and at what distance you are shooting .22 LR, there may be a POA v. POI difference. You either adjust the sights or use holdover / under.

Dependent on where you are sighted for 5.56, and at what distance you are shooting .22 LR, there may be a POA v. POI difference. You either adjust the sights or use holdover / under.

 

 

 

that totally makes sense... I guess if it is consistant it doesnt matter if it is an inch low.. or an inch left... since your friend is just using it to practice.. good point..

It's not just the .001 I think the twist rate is more of a factor because when you use a conversion kit the barrel twist is for a 223 which is between 1/7" - 1/9". The M&P 15-22 has a 1/15" twist.

My Stainless CMMG kit worked flawless out of the box. Even shot some ancient .22 ammo with it just to test.

I realize this is an old post, but in case anyone is still wondering...

 

I've been using a Spike's Tactical coversion kit (just the bolt & Black Dog magazines) for about a year+ now. It has definitely paid for itself in ammo costs within a short period of time. Just couldn't see spending the money on a dedicated upper, when for that price I could buy at least 2 great rimfire rifles of a more traditional nature. I have also had the problem of empty cases being pinched up into the hollow recess on the underside of the charging handle which is a real PITA to clear, but this seems to be happening less and less. The conversiona are definitely ammo sensitive, I have tried many, many brands of ammo and wouldn't even think of using ammo that is not copper plated, as everything else fails to feed on every shot. With the right kinds of ammo (federal bulk, BVAC HP's, Winchester) there is good reliabilty, for plinking standards. POA v. POI concerns within 50 yards or so are nil for elevation. IMO, the best brands of kit would be spikes or cmmg - just my .02

What about this?

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ARR059-7.html

 

Where can I get the black dog 15 rounders?

What about this?

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ARR059-7.html

 

Where can I get the black dog 15 rounders?

http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/233.php

 

http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/591.php

 

Ciener has a HORRIBLE customer service reputation. You're probably better off with a Spike's or CMMG conversion kit.

This should do it for me then:

 

http://blackdogmachinellc.net/spikes-tactical-ar-22-conversion-kits.aspx

 

Looks like I am getting some tax $$ back, so I am gonna order this today I think

The conversion kits are somewhat less accurate in theory because of the overstabilized fast barrel twist. Some people also say it fouls up your gas tube unless you blow some .223 through after the .22 RF. The people I know personally have had these kits for years and have no complaints. But they don't shoot 5,000 rounds a year through them either. So I have no idea how picky you have to be to complain about them.

 

If you want to shoot suppressed, there are other considerations. But I doubt that is a subject of this thread.

 

I have the Spike's upper because I planned to put thousands and thousands of rounds through it per year and didn't want to screw around with my M16 uppers. They also have excellent CS and troubleshooting via email. I filed my auto trip per instructions (only required for FA) to tune the kit to FA and never got it to work. Emailed them a pic and they said I filed it too far and it was junk. They sent me a $30 replacement trip for free and it worked right out of the box. Been using it ever since. This thread is not about uppers, but I'll post the vids if you want to see them again