The reason I ask is a couple weeks ago I had my ffl ship out my CZ to the CZ Custom Shop for some work. He has his FFL but is not a dealer or has a store. It was just shipped back to him but he had a question of whether he has to sign it back into his record book and sign it back out to me or can he just give it back to me?

 

Funny side of this was that he called the NJ Bureau of Firearms to get the info from the horses mouth but was told he had to call back next Tuesday and speak with the guy in charge for the answer.

 

Are you kidding me!!!! Do you mean to tell me that there is only one person that works in the NJ Bureau of Firearms that can answer a log book entry question for a FFL? You gotta love this state!!!

Send a PM to PK90 - he's a ffl/dealer/forum sponsored shop.

yeah, on the bottem of the main page

I had experience with this, but not sure if it was the right info.

 

Dealing with Smith Wesson. Was sent back to my house.

 

Dealing with Springfield. I was told it had to be sent to an FFL. The FFL then gave me the gun, but not sure if he did a Nics or not, but apparently Springfield said it had to be logged in his book.

@sig, you getting the competition hammer and trigger job done? It's really nice once you get your pistol back

 

My experience with shipping to CZ Custom was pretty painless. Went to FedEx, sent directly to CZ Custom, they did the work and sent it directly back to my home. I probably ended up paying too much for shipping, but at least it was hassle free...

Interestingly, your FFL should know the foll0owing rule:

 

Exceptions to the ATF Form 4473 Requirement:

You are not required to obtain a Form 4473 for the following sales and other transfers:

Transfer of a firearm to another FFL (including 1. collectors when transferring a Curio & Relic firearm);

The return of a repaired firearm to the person from 2. whom it was received;

 

So No, your FFL can give you back the weapon your gave him upon return of it. Without entering it into the register.

This is under his FFL license, not under the NJ State Police requirments. So please Forgive the NJSP, they are not supposed to know the Federal Requirements that your dealer should.

Oh, PS for those interested the handbook can be downloaded

My link

 

I would have entered your weapon as an acquisition and disposition to the shop when sent out.

He can also enter the return of the weapon and return to you an an acquisition and disposition on its return.

 

If it was a one day gunsmith repair no need for it, but since it was shipped out and returned that is the best and proper way

per the federal Guide, and thats who gave him his FFL license.

If you ship the gun to the company yourself, they can send it back to you directly.

 

If you have a local FFL send it to the company, the company cannot send it back to you, they must send it to an FFL.

If you ship the gun to the company yourself, they can send it back to you directly.

 

If you have a local FFL send it to the company, the company cannot send it back to you, they must send it to an FFL.

 

 

 

+1

If you ship the gun to the company yourself, they can send it back to you directly.

 

If you have a local FFL send it to the company, the company cannot send it back to you, they must send it to an FFL.

That can't be right because it makes perfect sense, plus you live in New Jersey!

As stated, if you sent the firearm directly to the manufacturer for repair, they could have sent it directly back to you.

 

Since you took it to your local dealer, the dealer could have done three things.

 

1. The dealer sent it to the manufacturer without logging it in any of his books. He should not have done this. Is is in violation of Federal and State regulations. If he did, further explanation of this scenario should be done off line.

 

2. The dealer logged it into his A&D Bound Book, then out to the manufacturer. He now must enter it back into the A&D Book, then require you to do a 4473 with NICS and P2P. Then it is logged out to you.

 

3. The dealer logged it into his Gunsmithing A&D Bound Book, then out to the manufacturer. Upon its return, it is logged in, then out to ONLY you with no 4473 or NICS being done. This is what should have been done.

If you ship the gun to the company yourself, they can send it back to you directly.

 

If you have a local FFL send it to the company, the company cannot send it back to you, they must send it to an FFL.

 

I know. Rob at CZ told me that.

As stated, if you sent the firearm directly to the manufacturer for repair, they could have sent it directly back to you.

 

Since you took it to your local dealer, the dealer could have done three things.

 

1. The dealer sent it to the manufacturer without logging it in any of his books. He should not have done this. Is is in violation of Federal and State regulations. If he did, further explanation of this scenario should be done off line.

 

2. The dealer logged it into his A&D Bound Book, then out to the manufacturer. He now must enter it back into the A&D Book, then require you to do a 4473 with NICS and P2P. Then it is logged out to you.

 

3. The dealer logged it into his Gunsmithing A&D Bound Book, then out to the manufacturer. Upon its return, it is logged in, then out to ONLY you with no 4473 or NICS being done. This is what should have been done.

 

This was the first time he has done this. I was with him when he entered it into his Bound Book and enter it out to the Shop it was being sent. In this case CZ.

Will and PK90. Am I reading this correctly? Will you say this "So No, your FFL can give you back the weapon your gave him upon return of it. Without entering it into the register."

 

But PK90 says "2. The dealer logged it into his A&D Bound Book, then out to the manufacturer. He now must enter it back into the A&D Book, then require you to do a 4473 with NICS and P2P. Then it is logged out to you."

 

I believe it was entered into his A&D Bound Book and not the "Gunsmithing A&D Book".

Will and PK90. Am I reading this correctly? Will you say this "So No, your FFL can give you back the weapon your gave him upon return of it. Without entering it into the register."

 

But PK90 says "2. The dealer logged it into his A&D Bound Book, then out to the manufacturer. He now must enter it back into the A&D Book, then require you to do a 4473 with NICS and P2P. Then it is logged out to you."

 

I believe it was entered into his A&D Bound Book and not the "Gunsmithing A&D Book".

No entry IF it is return the same day to you.

No Gunsmithing book, just the regular A&D? You have to get a P2P and do the 4473 with NICS.

@sig, you getting the competition hammer and trigger job done? It's really nice once you get your pistol back

 

My experience with shipping to CZ Custom was pretty painless. Went to FedEx, sent directly to CZ Custom, they did the work and sent it directly back to my home. I probably ended up paying too much for shipping, but at least it was hassle free...

 

Yup. Competition hammer and trigger. Rob at CZ told me that SA trigger is now 3 lbs! Better than my Shadow Target. I would have shipped it myself but he ships FedEx 2 day for $15 and I heard horror stories about what FedEX charges and individual to ship a gun overnight.

No entry IF it is return the same day to you.

No Gunsmithing book, just the regular A&D? You have to get a P2P and do the 4473 with NICS.

 

So your telling me that I have to apply for a pistol permit to get this back? Thanks Will and PK90 for the responses. I'm Sure he is going to call that guy at the NJ Firearms Bureau Tuesday for confirmation.

So your telling me that I have to apply for a pistol permit to get this back? Thanks Will and PK90 for the responses. I'm Sure he is going to call that guy at the NJ Firearms Bureau Tuesday for confirmation.

 

Wow, that sucks. 30 days and another permit without an exemption.

Why on earth would he log it into his books? He was supposed to ship the gun, not throw it in his inventory. The way i see it is that he was shipping a gun that was registered to you, not transferring a gun to his FFl and then shipping it. If you do end up having to pay for NICS and permits, i would make him pay for it, and throw in something extra for basically being a tart, FFL holders should know what there doing, not learn it as they make mistakes.

 

I mean imagine if people got wind of FFL dealers f'ing up, they would only make it harder to get FFL's as if it wasn't already hard enough.

Why on earth would he log it into his books? He was supposed to ship the gun, not throw it in his inventory. The way i see it is that he was shipping a gun that was registered to you, not transferring a gun to his FFl and then shipping it. If you do end up having to pay for NICS and permits, i would make him pay for it, and throw in something extra for basically being a tart, FFL holders should know what there doing, not learn it as they make mistakes.

 

I mean imagine if people got wind of FFL dealers f'ing up, they would only make it harder to get FFL's as if it wasn't already hard enough.

 

Jack,

This was the first time he did this. He was unaware of a Gunsmithing/Repair book which one of the guys at The Firearms Guild in Rahway told me today.

OK, Let me correct this based on the scenario.

Your in NJ. Your sent a weapon OUT OF STATE for repair.

As far as your FFL dealer (not going into shipping your gun to S&W for engraving or for a gunsmith, etc). You send a weapon out to or for a modification.

As a FFL license holder in NJ, following FFL law and NJ law (as you need a NJ dealers license as well to hold a FFL in NJ).

1. He takes your gun, logs it into his FFL binder as a acquisition.

2. He logs it out with the disposition out for repair/m, modification.

 

He is now done.

 

The place sends it back to him.

He logs it into his binder. and then when you pick it up out to you.

There is no 4473 form done, per FFL rules or NJ rules.(per the FFL handbook)

There is NO NIC check done per FFL rules or NJ rules. (per the FFL handbook)

OK, Let me correct this based on the scenario.

Your in NJ. Your sent a weapon OUT OF STATE for repair.

As far as your FFL dealer (not going into shipping your gun to S&W for engraving or for a gunsmith, etc). You send a weapon out to or for a modification.

As a FFL license holder in NJ, following FFL law and NJ law (as you need a NJ dealers license as well to hold a FFL in NJ).

1. He takes your gun, logs it into his FFL binder as a acquisition.

2. He logs it out with the disposition out for repair/m, modification.

 

He is now done.

 

The place sends it back to him.

He logs it into his binder. and then when you pick it up out to you.

There is no 4473 form done, per FFL rules or NJ rules.(per the FFL handbook)

There is NO NIC check done per FFL rules or NJ rules. (per the FFL handbook)

 

That is correct. So no need for him to enter it into a separate Gunsmith/Repair book. He can just log it back into his regular A&D book and log it out in his book back to me. Is that correct?

The dealer better keep a separate book for gunsmithing purposes or he will have some unnecessary explaining to do.

 

Hope this helps