One of my customers on Calguns posted this. In California, you can have one of two types of centerfire, semi-automatic rifles: featureless or fixed mag. The featureless build requires that the rifle not have any evil features such as a flash hider, pistol grip or collapsible stock. I know that alot of people like to buy and pin a stock in place to meet this requirement but this was a novel and easy approach that accomplishes the same as pinning the stock but with alot less hassle.

 

Basically, the pin/bar that actuates the friction lock of the CTR is removed so you cannot change the position of the stock without the use of some kind of tool. How would that play in New Jersey?

 

 

 

 

I personally think this does qualify as fixed, but I wanted to see if some of the more astute legal eagles would agree with me.

 

Well, I was in the process of building my first featureless AR and was getting ready to drill screws into the plastic of my stock. Then I got cold feet and decided to tinker with it some. Upon partially disassembling the CTR I found I could just remove the little crossbar that the external lever uses to pull the locking peg down.

 

Now the stock cannot move with just hands alone. You need a small tool like a screwdriver, punch, or bullet tip to remove or alter the stock's position. I figure since that is good enough to make a magazine fixed then why can't the same definition work for fixing a stock.

as far as I am aware NJ says this..

A folding or telescoping stock

and that is all they say.. so the question you have to ask is once the stock is changed.. can it be extended? can it fold? if the answer is no.. then you are IMO legal as defined by the law.. that is not to say that it can't be changed with tools.. it is to say as the rifle sits there on the table.. can it telescope or fold.. people often error on the side on pinning it, but I do not really see that mentioned in the law.. I am not an expert or a lawyer but that is my opinion..

I'm not a lawyer.

 

The fact that I could stick the end of a pencil in there, squeeze the release and move the stock suggests to me that it is not good enough.

I'm not a lawyer.

 

The fact that I could stick the end of a pencil in there, squeeze the release and move the stock suggests to me that it is not good enough.

 

for what it's worth.. my NJ Legal DPMS was poorly modified with regards to that same mindset.. once I had the stock off the I was curious if I could reuse any of the parts.. I took a punch pin and pushed the pins out.. I was left with a completely adjustable AR stock.. I was surprised it was done in such simple way.. not saying I am right or wrong.. but pins.. rivets.. can all be modified at a later point.. there is nothing permanent about them.. I assume that the reason we think they are ok and this is not, is due to the fact that they require "tools" but when I skimmed the law I didn't see anything mentioning that.. muzzle device on the other hand is very specific.. they go through the trouble of even saying you can not have a threaded barrel..

Since NJ has very specific restrictions and no wording regarding how to reconfigure restricted hardware to a compliant state, we have to perform alterations is a specific manner to make them compliant. CA seems to have some more specific, clear cut ways to make a non-compliant gun to be compliant with the bullet button and those funny horizontal pistol grip stock replacements and such methods apparently are within the spirit of their law. Here in NJ, we have to err on the side of caution since we dont have those methods "Blessed" by the NJSP (our governing body). As such, we generally have to make very permanent alterations to convert non-compliant hardware and such changes generally have to be non-reversible in order to truly be considered permanent. For a stock for instance, the typical method is to drill a blind hole through the stock and into the buffer tube and insert a roll pin of the exact same depth then fill any void with some adhesive filler. This creates a mechanical bond such that the pin cannot be driven out with a simple hammer and punch and so the idea of being able to adjust the stock on the fly with only a screwdriver (as opposed to your fingers only) doesn't seem a "permanent" modification especially when you can probably reinstall the parts at a later date and regain full functionality. Naturally, the idea of how "permanent" is truly permanent is subjective, however, this is how i've always interpreted the law regarding this particular component. I mean, if you were skilled with a drill press, you can drill out the pin/adhesive and the same goes for pinned muzzle devices.

In My opinion, it qualifies as Non-Folding.. But my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it when it comes to court :-P

It would not play well. The thing that they always seem to go for is permanantly fixed. In conversations that means not easily countered. I have it on good authority that they want to see a blind pin that goes into the reciever extension into that track that the position index goes into.

 

Shane

does the law say that the stock modification has to be permanent.. or does the law simply say the stock can not fold or telescope.. i glanced over the law and I saw no mention of the words permanent in regards to stocks... I can change the stock length on my CX4 storm with a screwdriver by adding or removing spacers.. but that is without question NJ legal.. I am simply playing devils advocate here.. not trying to start an argument..

The Berretta's stock is not a collapsing stock to begin with...

Blind roll pin and epoxy is the way to go in NJ. I took the Magpul ACS that I bought from MidwestPX to Paterson Gunsmithing and they did an EXCELLENT job. You could never tell from the outside but that thing ain't movin unless you break it.

Blind roll pin and epoxy is the way to go in NJ. I took the Magpul ACS that I bought from MidwestPX to Paterson Gunsmithing and they did an EXCELLENT job. You could never tell from the outside but that thing ain't movin unless you break it.

Which really is a shame....because not being able to have an adjustable stock is going to stop someone from going on a shooting spree

 

Im comfortable with the stock extended all the way out, my girlfriend is pretty small so she needs a shorter stock. This creates an unnecessary hassle if I ever were to build an AR that we could both shoot.....whether its having a completely separate lower assembly, or what I dont know.....it takes the fun out of things, and creates a pain in the butt situation for law abiding firearms enthusiasts.

Well, from my experience, dealing with a LOP is just a matter of blading your stance. So, for example vjf, your girlfriend could blade more and practically hold the rifle standing sideways if the stock is too long for her. In the same respect, since my stock has such a short LOP, I shoot squared up. I agree, it does suck that we can't just have telescoping stocks because it would get rid of the hassle... but, until things change, might as well evolve ourselves