I've been watching civilian and military training on rifle shooting - standing, kneeling and prone. Looks to me like the military sling is dead especially for the 22 battle carbine AKA, AR's. The US Army is showing me that no sling kneeling is the best. What????

 

If you check Appleseed it's all sling. But then that is for the real thing, an M1A battle rifle. At any distance 100/200/300/400/500 yards the sling ought to be best but then I am asking, not telling.

 

Looks like the AR has changed more than just the weight of the ammo.

 

What gives guys??

The US Army is showing me that no sling kneeling is the best

 

I retired after over 42 years active duty and reserves and the Army never taught using the sling in any position AFAIK. USMC does. I worked as a LEO for over 30 years, most of that time as a firearms/tactics instructor and have been to enough schools in the military and as an LEO training me with everything from handguns to howitzers so I know a little about shooting. I have also dabbled in competition shooting.

 

I think a sling may or may not help a shooter. I find no benefit to me in using a sling kneeling. I shoot better standing using a sling but find I need to make windage adjustments with M1s and ARs. I only have used a sling in competition not in combat that I can remember(was concerned with a lot of other things). Many of the tactical slings if adjusted correctly will "sling you up" when you shoulder your rifle.

 

. Looks to me like the military sling is dead especially for the 22 battle carbine AKA, AR's.

 

If you're not a really good shooter a sling is not going to make you one. It might make you a little better. If you use it for shooting or not a sling is essential on any long gun for combat as you have to be able to free up your hands,

I am going to have to vote yes on the sling for kneeling (and sitting and prone) for shooting a known distance course. It definitely helps. In the Marines I was taught to use the web sling but I recommend a good leather sling (like from Turner). I highly recommend this book if you are interested in the subject:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=189649

When you say "military sling" are we talking specifically of the USGI web sling-type? Or are we talking about the general disregard of slings as applied to shooting methods by the military?

 

My experience with the web sling was only during my time as an IET "Soldier," note BCT/AIT. That sling was pretty much worthless, as the only function we used it for was during formation/D&C type stuff. Otherwise, during movements and BRM/ARM/STX/etc, we treated it like the sling wasn't even there. Later on, I was introduced to 3pts and 1pts, which added utility.

Maybe you're also talking of that method where you wrap the sling with your support hand to create a vice-type-thing with your body. My instructors demonstrated it, and then told us to not consider ever using that in the field (I received my training post-2001, but before we really had a foothold regarding OIF)-- and this was coming from guys who had kicked down Mr. Taliban's door. They said that the method helps, but can often disrupt the stance then help, especially in stressful/uncomfortable/harsh conditions. The idea is that a person will use the wrap for added support, but it also means more muscle is helping support, and not necessarily structure (bones). Then when a person's heartbeat elevates, lactic acid builds up, and its just all downhill from there. If a person has that kind of stand off, might as well go prone-- and if that's the case, might as well "mag-pod" the rifle, or do a traditional prone-unsupported (or supported if available). They said the sling-wrap in a dynamic environment (my term, but same idea) where its not just firepower, but mobility as well, is detrimental because it essentially gets rid of the functionality of the arm that is wrapped (and God forbid a person gets hurt and can only shoot with one arm). Looking back, knowing and having my own experiences, I agree with the assessment. I just wish the Army wouldn't be cheap, and actually issue good slings and teach the kids how to actually use the stuff (considering 75% of Soldiers rotate into the combat zone within three months of completing AIT... not so sure about the number now since OIF is "over").

 

As for Appleseeds, I haven't been to one, so, I can't say I understand that perspective.

about the only thing I use a sling for is to "drop" the rifle and go to a sidearm when shooting at the home made setup..

Hey Folks,

When it comes to precision rifle slings, I'm a big fan of Tactical Intervention Specialists slings for assisting in precision shooting otherwise unsupported. From my own experience, the issue with using a sling in a military field setting, is the gain in accuracy, weighed against time it takes to sling up, the movement and repositioning it takes to sling up(target indicator) if you are in a concealed position, getting it adjusted to work with all your added kit on vs. the shooting range, the range to the enemy and the reduced mobility for someone in a tight sling. Once properly set up in advance, Mike Miller's TIS slings offset most of these by letting you lock in and unlock very quickly and securely with minimal movement. I've been using them for years, and they are top end and hell for stout...The Corps agrees with me, and made them standard equipment a few years back, as well...

Now, when it comes to carbines, I really like the VTac slings, as I've found them to be very durable, comfortable, especially with my chunky POF P308, and adjust quickly. You can lock em down pretty quickly for some added support, but it won't be as supportive as a true shooting sling, like the TIS. It's all about using the right tool for the right job. As a bonus, they also come in partial Multicam, which along with being sexy, is much nicer then wearing a complete single color straight line(target indicator), across my otherwise tactically concealed camouflaged buttocks...

I hope this helps...

Respectfully,

Harry