There were a few posts about this before, and the overall feeling of 22lr not being enough.

 

On Science channel today, there is a show "Spy Wars", discussing assassinations, this one about a former Iraqi weapons builder. Once again they discussing how the Israeli Massad weapon of choice is a suppressed 22lr, with the emphasis on accuracy. They did some ballistic gellatin tests showing how with a 22lr, instead of penetration, most of the power/tumbling is 4 inches after penetration.

 

They went on to do noise test of an unsuppressed 9mm, 164 db versus a suppressed 22lr at 117 db.

 

Very interesting.

To me, a bullet is a bullet, whether its a 22, a 9mm, a 223. It will hurt you or kill you depending on where you are hit.

Here is an interesting site with gelatin tests on most calibers including .22lr

 

http://www.brassfetcher.com/22minis.html

To me, a bullet is a bullet, whether its a 22, a 9mm, a 223. It will hurt you or kill you depending on where you are hit.

 

This is how I feel. However, I would not be willing to sacrifice TOO MUCH size given the fact that I can handle more than a .22. I would give my girlfriend a .22 for that reason, but I wouldn't take less than a 9mm.

have heard millions of stories over the years from the old man who "has been a homicide investigator longer than you have been alive" (love when he insults people with that one lol) and many many times heard, how the .22 did this, .22 did that, torn up the body, ripped apart this organ, autopsy showed this raving damage caused by a little .22 pistol, etc...

 

the most famous he tells is the time the 22 entered through skin by an elbow , traveled up and along the bone, all the way to a rib, then went around rib cage, punctured through on the other side (into the lung) and finally settled into the heart, piercing and destroying the heart. This was one of the first murder investigations he did back in the 70's and had to look into the autopsy and see the results and supposedly has never then forgotten what a .22 can do.

We can all debate about what caliber is manly, and how you would never shoot someone with a .22, but the bottom line is YOU would never want to get shot by a .22 or any caliber. A bullet is a bullet no matter what size, and most .22's that people that I know own are semis' so that is 10-15 shots. That would hurt...bad! YMMV, but I wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of a .22.

We can all debate about what caliber is manly, and how you would never shoot someone with a .22, but the bottom line is YOU would never want to get shot by a .22 or any caliber. A bullet is a bullet no matter what size, and most .22's that people that I know own are semis' so that is 10-15 shots. That would hurt...bad! YMMV, but I wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of a .22.

I certainly would not want to be shot with a .22 either. And in a HD situation, if the closest weapons were a .22 or a big knife....I am damn sure going to go with the .22.

there was a story on a PA gun forum about someone being killed with a 22 just today..

A .22 can be quite an effective killer.

Even .177 and .22 airguns should have their business ends respected. Death isn't likely but they're more than toys.

The OSS issued silenced .22LR's in WWII. And they knew what they were doing!

.22's are the / were the most popular assasination bullet, just enough power to penetrate the head going in but can't get it out so it just tumbles around causing extreme damage.

 

Spy games aside, many people have been killed by .22's probably a lot more than we might think.

We had a kid when I was stationed in AK take a 22lr in the neck from an accidental discharge as the rifle was thrown in the trunk, loaded and it went off. Poor kid died before they got off the dirt road to the range. The kid that threw the gun in the car was our Chief's son, real religious types and took it extremely hard as you would imagine.

Well I could get killed by a bad hamburger. Doesnt mean I want to rely on one to take someone else out if I had to. As usual, the mission defines the method and equipment. A 22 being pressed into use operationally only means in that context it was useful. Its by no means a vindication of the round. What I am saying here is that because it got used in a special circumstance, doesnt validate it for self defence. Frankly if I was tossed in a cage, two men enter, one man leaves, style and the choice was a .22 revolver or a 10" fighting knife, Id head for the knife!

Well I could get killed by a bad hamburger. Doesnt mean I want to rely on one to take someone else out if I had to. As usual, the mission defines the method and equipment. A 22 being pressed into use operationally only means in that context it was useful. Its by no means a vindication of the round. What I am saying here is that because it got used in a special circumstance, doesnt validate it for self defence. Frankly if I was tossed in a cage, two men enter, one man leaves, style and the choice was a .22 revolver or a 10" fighting knife, Id head for the knife!

 

No doubt on this. If I had to use a 22, it is going to be a contact shot to real close to a vital spot. Ear canal, base of skull pointing upwards, dumping a mag in the side of neck type of stuff. If I am wearing my riding leather and a wet suit upper underneath, odds are you aren't going break skin. I'll take a 10" edged weapon for the cage fight. I know I have broader and more target areas to achieve my objective.

This is nothing new, a .22 has enough power to enter the skull but not to exit, it just rattles around a little... Don't you guys watch mob flicks? LOL

This is nothing new, a .22 has enough power to enter the skull

 

Sometimes it doesn't. This goes back to the days when you could shoot fleeing felons. The holdup man was running away and the good guy shot him in the head with a 22. The round hit the bad guy in the back of the skull, the round followed the skull and exited the forehead. The bad guy put his hand up to his forehand, saw the blood on his hand and figured he was shot through the head and passed out. In this case the 22 stopped him.

 

22s are known to be very lethal but lack stopping power. The lack of mass means that when a 22 hits hard tissue or bone it can't penetrate so it bounces off in another direction. The wound channel is L shaped and a surgeon has to do more damage than the bullet did to remove it.

 

Maks mentioned the Mosaad and 22s and according to one source I heard they like the old Bereeta 70S. The 380 size pistol makes it very reliable. Maks menioned the lower report of the 22. It can be mistaken for a car backfire or firecracker. A 9mm sounds like...well a 9mm.

 

If I had to use a 22, it is going to be a contact shot

 

Okay if you are close enough but more likely the bad guy will be out of reach. This is where shot placement and firng 3 or 4 rounds is important if you find yourself using a 22 in a SD situation.

If I had the choice of a .22 or a knife, Im choosing the .22. A knife is a hell of a lot easier to dodge than a bullet, unless the knife wielder is an EXPERT with it. Even then, you have distance on your side with the .22. 3-4 shots from a .22 COM may not kill you, but you certainly wont be swinging that knife as accurately or quickly as you would be at perfect health.

Yeah vj I hear what your saying but heartily disagree. Dont know how many rapidly, eraticly moving targets you have ever shot at, its harder than you think. So if you dont get serious cns shots with that .22 you are in big trouble. To add to that, statistically Im likely to survive the 22 shots, and the other is not. That is why you see those in the know choosing the knife.

My uncle regularly goes hunting deer with my first rifle, a (Marlin Model 60) .22LR. <-- not in the U.S.

 

Moose

My uncle regularly goes hunting deer with my first rifle, a (Marlin Model 60) .22LR. <-- not in the U.S.

 

Moose

 

Real men hunt bear with a wrist-rocket and a pocket full of marbles... LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iExBu8Rygnw

I lost my marbles a long time ago.

I have some old cat eyes in a clown container if you need them.