Just a brief commentary and have a good idea about the answer (its NJ duh).

 

This past Friday I was notified that my services were required down in FL for a very real and developing (still in progress) workplace violence incident that is starting to unfold, and they needed some Jersey know-how on the matter. Because this has a very real potential of being a threat to my personal security I was exercising my right to carry.

 

Here is my gripe, why is it when you fly out of Newark you have to go to the TSA office so they can physically check your fire by making opening the case to verify that it is unloaded? This is the only airport I've ever had this done at. Do any other NJ / NY / PA airports do this? I know all the other dozen or so airports I have flown out of just ask about it and then you stick the tag in the bag. This is one of the main reasons I don't pack HP's in my baggage. I have this fear of being in that gray area of possession of HP's. This was my first trip in 6 years that I didn't have my badge with me and was curious if the procedures would change, it didn't.

 

FWIW, I resigned from being a 'special' with the PCSD because of the politics that are going on. I can't stand being forced to raise money for NJ politicians and hence resigned instead of donating another dollar or hour of my time for a group that supports people who undermine this once great nation.

 

On a side note, Miami had a few very attractive TSA agents.

I resigned from being a 'special' with the PCSD because of the politics that are going on. I can't stand being forced to raise money for NJ politicians and hence resigned instead of donating another dollar or hour of my time for a group that supports people who undermine this once great nation.

 

Lemme buy you a beer!

Just a brief commentary and have a good idea about the answer (its NJ duh).

 

This past Friday I was notified that my services were required down in FL for a very real and developing (still in progress) workplace violence incident that is starting to unfold, and they needed some Jersey know-how on the matter. Because this has a very real potential of being a threat to my personal security I was exercising my right to carry.

 

Here is my gripe, why is it when you fly out of Newark you have to go to the TSA office so they can physically check your fire by making opening the case to verify that it is unloaded? This is the only airport I've ever had this done at. Do any other NJ / NY / PA airports do this? I know all the other dozen or so airports I have flown out of just ask about it and then you stick the tag in the bag. This is one of the main reasons I don't pack HP's in my baggage. I have this fear of being in that gray area of possession of HP's. This was my first trip in 6 years that I didn't have my badge with me and was curious if the procedures would change, it didn't.

 

FWIW, I resigned from being a 'special' with the PCSD because of the politics that are going on. I can't stand being forced to raise money for NJ politicians and hence resigned instead of donating another dollar or hour of my time for a group that supports people who undermine this once great nation.

 

On a side note, Miami had a few very attractive TSA agents.

 

Did they let you in the room when they checked it? From what I've read you are supposed to be the only one who has possession of the key. When I flew out of Newark they took my key and wouldn't let me in the office.

Did they let you in the room when they checked it? From what I've read you are supposed to be the only one who has possession of the key. When I flew out of Newark they took my key and wouldn't let me in the office.

 

In the past, I used to be the one to open it up, show them and lock everything back up. The last couple of times I've just stood outside the door. I put my handgun in a good sized combination locked case with a keyed cable lock running thru the mag well / action. I tell them that if they are in a rush, they can scan everything and they will see the cable running thru it in the xray to show it is unloaded. Last week I went thru pretty quickly and think that's what they might have done. I know what a PITA my combo lock is and they didn't ask me to come in and relock it, which has been done in the past which leads me to believe they xrayed it this time.

Lemme buy you a beer!

 

How about an ale or a stout?

How about an ale or a stout?

 

Either - I owe you one anyway.

Either - I owe you one anyway.

 

Nonsense. No one owes me anything.

I am really torn on bringing the pistol on Sunday..... flying to florida....

 

never done it.... and just not sure I want to deal with the TSA @ 5am with wife rolling her eyes at me

I am really torn on bringing the pistol on Sunday..... flying to florida....

 

never done it.... and just not sure I want to deal with the TSA @ 5am with wife rolling her eyes at me

 

Allow for an extra 30 to 40 minutes for the ritual. Last week I waited longer for someone from the airline to walk me down then it did for TSA to do their thing. 15 minutes for an airline agent and less then 5 for TSA. I offered to 'walk' myself down to the door having been there a few times, but was not allowed to go unescorted. You are leaving at o'dark-thirty so you should be okay. During a busy period I can see getting jammed up.

I've been wondering what the whole process should be like for this. What kind of gun cases are required (Plastic ok?), locks, ammo, mags, etc. If you buy your ticket and checkin online, how do you go through the security checks, etc?

The TSA has a good page on what you need to do. I always have a printed copy of the Firearms page with me just in case one of field agents is clueless.

 

TSA Page

this is from the TSA link

"We recommend that you provide the key or combination to the security officer if he or she needs to open the container. You should remain in the area designated by the aircraft operator or TSA representative to take the key back after the container is cleared for transportation. If you are not present and the security officer must open the container, we or the airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact you. If we can't contact you, the container will not be placed on the plane. Federal regulations prohibit unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) on aircraft."

 

Obviously Newark TSA higher ups in their infinite wisdom read this and interpreted it to mean that they should always be given the key and/or combination and they should always open it. Ifs are always always I guess. Yeah, basically the answer is "It's NJ." Always doing whatever it takes to inconvenience law abiding citizens.

Yeah..... I am gonna skip it this trip....

 

Dont want to deal with it...

TSA does not check your firearm it is the carriers job to make sure it isn't loaded. Their SOP prohibits any TSA officer from touching any firearm. Your declaration that it is unloaded is enough, they check the case for threats that could destroy an aircraft the firearm is not an issue, if however it is found to be loaded during the check a LEO will be called. Every air carrier handles the firearm in a different manner. The size of the case determines how the weapon and case are checked. What airline did you use and what terminal did you fly out of? Some airlines are a bit paranoid since some weapons got "lost" by their bag handlers. Yes I work at Newark.

Wojo,

 

Not dealing with this personally, however a few regular travelers who fly with firearms through Newark, mentioned that on occasion they take you to the TSA room, whereas most times, they just check it at the counter like everywhere else.

TSA does not check your firearm it is the carriers job to make sure it isn't loaded. Their SOP prohibits any TSA officer from touching any firearm. Your declaration that it is unloaded is enough, they check the case for threats that could destroy an aircraft the firearm is not an issue, if however it is found to be loaded during the check a LEO will be called. Every air carrier handles the firearm in a different manner. The size of the case determines how the weapon and case are checked. What airline did you use and what terminal did you fly out of? Some airlines are a bit paranoid since some weapons got "lost" by their bag handlers. Yes I work at Newark.

TSA does not check your firearm it is the carriers job to make sure it isn't loaded - But they do

Their SOP prohibits any TSA officer from touching any firearm. - So maybe they just look at it and not touch it behind closed doors. They can touch your privates, but not your weapon, I see a joke in here somewhere.

The size of the case determines how the weapon and case are checked. - 9 x 12 single pistol case, hard plastic, full hinge with two slide latches. I drop a larger combination lock (Standard School Locker type Master Combo Lock) thru the handle that allows for a much tighter closure and a beefier lock then what the smaller holes would allow you to use.

 

What airline did you use and what terminal did you fly out of? - Continental, Terminal C

 

Yes I work at Newark - Lots of people work in Newark Airport. Are you with TSA or just work there?

 

Tankcommander, I'm not busting your stones directly here, but if you are correct, once again, NJ is playing by their own rules. If you work for TSA, I really would appreciate some insight on this. As I am sure most of us travelers would.

 

I remember when I used to travel with firearms back in the mid-80's (yes, I'm old) and they used to tag the outside of your bag. One time coming back from AK, I had some stuff in my duffel bag, soft cases for my firearms (but they had bolts or cylinders removed) and my flight got delayed. Mysteriously, my bags arrived in Newark hours before I did. When I get there and I see my OD bag just sitting off to the side with the big orange tag sitting on the floor. It most of looked like a set-up because no one touched it.

Wojo,

 

Not dealing with this personally, however a few regular travelers who fly with firearms through Newark, mentioned that on occasion they take you to the TSA room, whereas most times, they just check it at the counter like everywhere else.

 

I know Maks, but so far flying out of Newark with Continental, I've been brought over to TSA every time. A couple of the guys have met me here and I certainly not one to be profiled as a bad guy. Especially when I used to carry a County Sheriff's ID / badge and am vetted by the FBI. Other airports following proper procedure, ask you and then hand you the tag after they enter their info and you sign it.

 

Again, wouldn't it be nice if we had some national standard here in NJ instead of our maverick anti-gun owner ways? Coming from the PRNJ, I'd be okay with a national FID, if it meant we could have the same rights as PA, FL or any number of free states.

 

Another entire mess is being in the private security field. Every frig'in state has different standards to be a licensed guard, armed and unarmed. If your client decides to go from NJ to CT / NY shopping, even if you are unarmed you can get jammed up. FL, New Orleans and Hawaii LOVE to bust balls of private security during the Superbowl / Probowl / Basketball / Baseball / Golf outings / big events on Executive Protection guys like me. Your high rolling client tells you that "we are heading to FL for the game". By law, once you hit that state, you are in violation of the law protecting your principal. The clients from the middle east are the worse for spur of the moment trips.

 

Those of us in the private security field, would also LOVE to have a national security license instead of dealing with it state by state. Same thing when guys from out of state come into AC for some casino time, the locals will detain them. When you do EP work, you don't ask where are we going and what time am I going to be home. Most decent principals will tell you pack for short or long trip, but sometimes things just happen. The principal doesn't think about these things, nor should they. That is when the good EP guys go covert while still protecting their principal. B)

I had the same experience at EWR in Sep. Not a big delay, but walked over to TSA, waited outside the door, then the guy came back and asked for the key. A couple of minutes later, the door opened and they handed me the key back and said ok. Checking in at Phoenix Skyport, never left the Continental counter. The gate agent asked me a couple of questions and didn't even want to see that it wasn't loaded, just handed me the tag to put inside and then took the bag.

 

I carried HPs and wouldn't worry about that.

 

Go ahead and bring it Troy, don't sweat it, wasn't a big deal and as Wojo said, early in the morning it added no more tan 10 minutes total to wit for the gate agent to walk us to TSA and wait for TSA to do their thing.

TSA does not check your firearm it is the carriers job to make sure it isn't loaded - But they do

Yes I work for TSA and we don't, If it looks loaded on the X-ray and you can see a loaded magazine in a pistol we call PAPD. We also check for the declaration. No officer opens an action to see if a weapon is clear.

Their SOP prohibits any TSA officer from touching any firearm. - So maybe they just look at it and not touch it behind closed doors. They can touch your privates, but not your weapon, I see a joke in here somewhere.

 

Hey we guys in the field did not come up with this.

 

The size of the case determines how the weapon and case are checked. - 9 x 12 single pistol case, hard plastic, full hinge with two slide latches. I drop a larger combination lock (Standard School Locker type Master Combo Lock) thru the handle that allows for a much tighter closure and a beefier lock then what the smaller holes would allow you to use.

 

If in a suit case it gets X-rayed and only opened if it causes an alarm. Rifle cases are usually checked by hand and have to be opened. The room is a secure area and only authorized personnel are allowed in. I've seen some amazing guns but never touched them.u

What airline did you use and what terminal did you fly out of? - Continental, Terminal C

Terminal C has its own proceedures agreed upon by TSA and Continental. All weapons are checked in one place and tracked to prevent them being miss placed.

 

Yes I work at Newark - Lots of people work in Newark Airport. Are you with TSA or just work there?

yes I am with TSA, I'd rather answer questions through a PM and would be glad to help any member with travel questions gun related or otherwise.

 

Tankcommander, I'm not busting your stones directly here, but if you are correct, once again, NJ is playing by their own rules. If you work for TSA, I really would appreciate some insight on this. As I am sure most of us travelers would.

Quite a few TSA officers are gun owners too.

I remember when I used to travel with firearms back in the mid-80's (yes, I'm old) and they used to tag the outside of your bag. One time coming back from AK, I had some stuff in my duffel bag, soft cases for my firearms (but they had bolts or cylinders removed) and my flight got delayed. Mysteriously, my bags arrived in Newark hours before I did. When I get there and I see my OD bag just sitting off to the side with the big orange tag sitting on the floor. It most of looked like a set-up because no one touched it.

Thanks tankcommander for additional info. I know you guys didn't come up with this. Like most of us who have been grunts in one shape or another, have had to follow orders from above, regardless if they make sense or if we agree with them or not.

 

I wonder what is different about Terminal C and Continental that require this added step? I know that TSA has enough going on and would prefer not having to stop what they are doing to check every firearm coming thru Term C. Now that Continental is merging with United, I wonder if that will change things. Or because it is Terminal C it will remain the same.

Thanks tankcommander for additional info. I know you guys didn't come up with this. Like most of us who have been grunts in one shape or another, have had to follow orders from above, regardless if they make sense or if we agree with them or not.

 

I wonder what is different about Terminal C and Continental that require this added step? I know that TSA has enough going on and would prefer not having to stop what they are doing to check every firearm coming thru Term C. Now that Continental is merging with United, I wonder if that will change things. Or because it is Terminal C it will remain the same.

 

It has to do with their operations, Counter agents being unfamiliar with proceedures and things going missing between TSA and the plane, the stories I can't tell. You would not believe the size of the operation behind the ticket counters, even with no harm intended its easy for stuff to go missing, the fact not much does is amazing. One entry point one exit and its accounted for the entire way. Also Continental runs C. The other terminals are shared, they can induce firearms any where that makes sense for them, we just check them. Also one entry point reduces the chance one of our less experianced officers is involved with your weapon. Don't fly with hollow points PAPD is clueless in regards to the law, avoid the hassle. When I worked in baggage I loved checking firearms, first I knew what I was doing, always tried to be helpful to owner and saw some really nice guns.

 

TC

Don't fly with hollow points PAPD is clueless in regards to the law, avoid the hassle.

 

I know that all too well. We had a detail in NYC for some royalty and we had our twenty car motorcade heading to JFK and we had to divert to Newark for some unknown reason. On the detail we typically have half retired NYDP LEO / CO's and private guys like myself. When the motorcade arrived at EWR, some PAPD asked what kind of ammo the NYPD's guys were packing. When the PAPD was told HP's, all hell broke loose. So we had cops trying to figure out whether this was a joke, for real or to run like hell. DSS was pissed off at the entire situation and the PAPD wouldn't budge on the matter. Then throw in NY guards now in NJ working a detail and we had quite the cluster-phuck. The company that hired us got hit with insane fines (per bullet).

 

This is part of why we need a national card for licensed guards and CCW. What are you going to do, have an entire motorcade pull over so they can load up non-HP ammo? Or have a new security team come on board. Once you are on a detail with middle-eastern royalty and they start trusting you, it is impossible to bring in new guys. The days and hours are very long. They really don't understand why someone might need to take a day off after two to three weeks of working 14 - 18+ hours straight thru.

 

You would not believe the size of the operation behind the ticket counters.

 

I've been back there. Years ago, I was a project manager at Terminal B when it was getting renovated and our space couldn't have been in a worse location to have new plumbing and electrical brought in. Between the asbestos, rat filled crawl spaces and conveyors in operation it was no wonder we were over budget and behind schedule. You can't shut down a conveyor any time you want. Takes A LOT of people and coordination. Throw in that it is a International port of entry and then you add US Customs to the mix on top of TSA. Thankfully this was before 9/11.

If you think that Newark TSA agents are outside of their authority (based on your descriptions, I agree that they are), have you filed a complaint with TSA? If TSA headquarters gets enough complaints, they might do something to put a stop to it.

 

I once filed a complaint to the mayor's office against my police department for delaying puchase permits. Two days later, everything was magically approved and they called me to pick up my permits.

If you think that Newark TSA agents are outside of their authority (based on your descriptions, I agree that they are), have you filed a complaint with TSA? If TSA headquarters gets enough complaints, they might do something to put a stop to it. I once filed a complaint to the mayor's office against my police department for delaying puchase permits. Two days later, everything was magically approved and they called me to pick up my permits.

 

No actually I don't think TSA is stepping out of bounds. They are checking weapons going onto planes...I'm okay with that. But like everything else the government gets into, the existing process can be streamlined and improved upon. I was more curious on why EWR was special.

 

Not for nothing, Newark is a beast unlike any other. Filing a complaint in Newark would just be a huge was of my time and money. Don't forget, Continental requested / required TSAs service. If I don't like it, I can fly out of any airline in Terminal A or B (except International). It isn't the airport or procedure, it the fear of breaking a NJ law trying to escape for a sanity break or work.

No actually I don't think TSA is stepping out of bounds. They are checking weapons going onto planes...I'm okay with that. But like everything else the government gets into, the existing process can be streamlined and improved upon. I was more curious on why EWR was special.

 

Not for nothing, Newark is a beast unlike any other. Filing a complaint in Newark would just be a huge was of my time and money. Don't forget, Continental requested / required TSAs service. If I don't like it, I can fly out of any airline in Terminal A or B (except International). It isn't the airport or procedure, it the fear of breaking a NJ law trying to escape for a sanity break or work.

 

Wojo, Continental uses one point for firearms to reduce the risk of theft, a lesson learned the hard way, an orange tag on the outside of a bag says I'm a gun steal me. We also wanted firearms to be checked by more experianced people which can be done if they all come to one location. In the other terminals the domestic airlines only have one baggage belt and handling area. In B the Port controls the belts and they are shared by all the international carriers.

 

Complaints made to Washington about TSA are given back to local management to investigate. Just ask some one this question, "were you rude to an old lady 6 weeks ago about 0900," they only see 4-5000 folks a day. My officers have to listen to the rudest idiotic crap from the traveling public. " I have no idea how that fill in the blank got in my bag." Sorry about the rant. Hey some of the officers have no people skills I didn't hire them I just have to supervise them.

 

 

TC

I have no idea how that fill in the blank got in my bag."

 

How about empty shell casings? I wore a coat to the range and someone was pelting me with .22 shell casings and a couple wound up in my pocket. Fortunately I noticed and surreptitiously dumped 'em in a trash can at the airport. Had they found it would I have gotten the full cavity search?

Quick update....

 

I am now in Florida....

 

Flew Continental...

 

Declared firearm at Continental counter, He asked to see the case, I opened the luggage at the counter, to show hard sided case. He then got a TSA agent, he arrived within 10min. Short walk up to TSA room. They took bag and my Firearm case key.... asked if I was a LEO, I said no.... but nicely asked why? He smiled and said he would have invited me in to see what they do. I thanked him.... took 5min, and he came back out with the key, said he never even had to open the luggage, it passed the x-ray the 1st time..... Just like everyone said... It was no big deal....

 

and.... so no body scan devices.... and no one gotted molested...lol

 

Will report on how Ft.Lauderdale handles the firarm on Sat night....

How about empty shell casings? I wore a coat to the range and someone was pelting me with .22 shell casings and a couple wound up in my pocket. Fortunately I noticed and surreptitiously dumped 'em in a trash can at the airport. Had they found it would I have gotten the full cavity search?

 

They are not an issue but anything gun related will get some additional scrutiny. But i'm sure you have run into people who are either totally ignorant regarding firearms and ammo or so into the letter of the law they forget the intent. We have a few of those but our supervisors are level headed and able to make the right decision. No cavity search but your coat or whatever the casings were in would be checked. Live rounds another matter, LEO call. Check your pockets before travel,reduce your chances for additional screening. Unless you want that cavity search.

 

TC

Quick update....

 

I am now in Florida....

 

Flew Continental...

 

Declared firearm at Continental counter, He asked to see the case, I opened the luggage at the counter, to show hard sided case. He then got a TSA agent, he arrived within 10min. Short walk up to TSA room. They took bag and my Firearm case key.... asked if I was a LEO, I said no.... but nicely asked why? He smiled and said he would have invited me in to see what they do. I thanked him.... took 5min, and he came back out with the key, said he never even had to open the luggage, it passed the x-ray the 1st time..... Just like everyone said... It was no big deal....

 

and.... so no body scan devices.... and no one gotted molested...lol

 

Will report on how Ft.Lauderdale handles the firarm on Sat night....

Glad to hear my folks did OK. Its not the big issue everyone thinks if you do it right. You would be surpised at all the people who get it wrong no lock, in a soft bag, loose in a soft bag, shipped in a crappy $20 rifle case. I wouldn't ship a $1000 gun in a $20 case. Hope all goes well in Fl. I had held back commenting on the TSA threads, I figured once I said something I get ragged on, but I had to comment on this one, glad I could help. I reread every response 4 times to be sure I'm not saying anything I shouldn't. But anyone who has checked a firearm in C knows the proceedure, it may cost a few minutes but it safe guards your property and your travel. Safe trip home.

 

TC